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    Nov 2, 2006 10:45:36 AM

    chapse
    Junior
    chapse
    Loc: NewEngland US
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    911 & WIngs

    Not sure if I'm in the minority or majority, but do think the wings on 911's look stupid, take away from the lines of the vehicle, and would gladly sacrifice top speed (who goes 150mph all the time anyway) just to get get rid of the wings / spoilers. There are lots of 150mph+ cars out there that have no wings, so not sure why porsche needs them. Porsche should give you the option, or sell you two rear lids, one with and one without the wing. I dont even like the flip up rear deck on the 911, its a beacon that your going to fast for the cops, oh well, not sure why Im ragging on the wings today, must be lack of sleep

    Nov 2, 2006 1:38:23 PM

    69bossnine
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    69bossnine
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    Reply to: chapse

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Cars that are designed for high speeds sans wings typically carry a VERY TALL rear belt-line, whereas the inherent classic shape of the 911 tapers down to an extremely LOW finish in the rear. Simple aerodynamics. Without something back there, at the very LEAST the flip-up speed-activated wing, the 911 is an aerodynamic death-trap at higher speeds.

    Just look at the way today's modern sports cars are designed in the tail, compared to the 911, and you'll realize it isn't rocket science, and that the only way to eliminate the need for a wing for higher speeds, would be to take the 911 shape, and toss it into the garbage can and start over from scratch with something polar opposite.

    I agree, the fixed wings look tacky and horrific, like a bad hairpiece on a guy who oughta just shave his head and be done with it...

    The flip-up speed activated wing is absolutely necessary, and at least is relatively small and in-scale with the car, such that it doesn't look too terribly prosthetic.

    As for it being a "beacon" for the cops, that's just silly, you're over-reacting. They won't see the thing anyhow until you've already shot past the radar...

    Nov 2, 2006 2:18:18 PM

    Jeannot
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    Jeannot
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Come on it could be worse :-)
    THAT is a wing

    Nov 2, 2006 4:27:13 PM

    Dan L
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    Dan L
    Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States
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    Reply to: Jeannot

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    It's never a beacon for cops,--you simply mention that you put it up manually. (That's what the button is for on the console).

    dan

    Nov 2, 2006 4:33:51 PM

    bstew
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    bstew
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    Reply to: Jeannot

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    That is one huge wing

    Nov 2, 2006 4:36:47 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    I would say no wing, the spolier on the TT is small and attractive, the spolier on the GT3 is ugly but can be justified due to character of the car. I like cars simple with clean lines

    Nov 2, 2006 4:40:46 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: Jeannot

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Here's my question. **on the Autobahn**, how effective are our front "bumper" and stock retractible spoilers (on 997/S) compared to these aerodynamic packages that include big a**wings?

    I assume Autobahn driving involves nice gradual banked turns and long flat straightaways.

    Am I right to assume the big-wing aerodynamic packages are for faster laps on complex race tracks?

    So, if this were true why would Porsche provide elaborately stylized huge mofo wings on cars that will not be needed on the Autobahn where simple retractible spoiler will do?

    What's more is why would Porsche put big fugly overstylized wings on cars that will be less effective on the track compared to real, totally functional (airplane-like) track wings?

    That's why big, fancy, sculptural, non-track-dedicated wings make me LOL.

    I dunno, maybe I'm missing something here... .

    Nov 2, 2006 4:50:29 PM

    edz
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    edz
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Here's my question. **on the Autobahn**, how effective are our front "bumper" and stock retractible spoilers (on 997/S) compared to these aerodynamic packages that include big a**wings?

    I assume Autobahn driving involves nice gradual banked turns and long flat straightaways.

    Am I right to assume the big-wing aerodynamic packages are for faster laps on complex race tracks?

    So, if this were true why would Porsche provide elaborately stylized huge mofo wings on cars that will not be needed on the Autobahn where simple retractible spoiler will do?

    What's more is why would Porsche put big fugly overstylized wings on cars that will be less effective on the track compared to real, totally functional (airplane-like) track wings?

    That's why big, fancy, sculptural, non-track-dedicated wings make me LOL.

    I dunno, maybe I'm missing something here... .



    I think it's not so much the freeway but the race track. With the freeways now days having bumps and bad transition where sections of the road meet with the bridge or where concrete meets asphalt the front spoilers will be damaged all the time. The rear spolier makes a heck of the difference and reduces the uplift of the car at high speeds. We are talking 160 m.ph.+. Now the 997S while it can do over 180 m.p.h, you can't just drive it at that speed anywhere, it will not be safe. Nevertheless the car is designed to go that fast and has the equipped designed by the factory to do so, then why bother make it look ugly with herrendous looking aftermarket parts because the car will be more stable in case you ever go 180 m.p.h

    Nov 2, 2006 7:12:58 PM

    devo
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    devo
    Loc: NY , United States
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    Reply to: chapse

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Quote:
    chapse said:
    Not sure if I'm in the minority or majority, but do think the wings on 911's look stupid, take away from the lines of the vehicle, and would gladly sacrifice top speed (who goes 150mph all the time anyway) just to get get rid of the wings / spoilers. There are lots of 150mph+ cars out there that have no wings, so not sure why porsche needs them. Porsche should give you the option, or sell you two rear lids, one with and one without the wing. I dont even like the flip up rear deck on the 911, its a beacon that your going to fast for the cops, oh well, not sure why Im ragging on the wings today, must be lack of sleep



    The "wing" doesn't drop until 35 mph, so what is the cop going to do; say that you exceeded 75 mph "sometime today" (place and time unknown)...that's "redickerus" . Unless, of course, your spoiler is extended in a school zone.

    Nov 2, 2006 7:19:42 PM

    Scotty A
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    Scotty A
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    Reply to: devo

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Anyway, there is a manual switch for raising the spoiler and you can always claim you like to look cool while you're toodling along at 35 mph.

    In fact, putting up the spoiler and turning PSE on makes you look and sound like you're going fast when you're parked!

    Nov 2, 2006 8:06:34 PM

    chili
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    chili
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    Reply to: Scotty A

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    I was with a friend in a 92 911 a while back headed to Carmel. We got pulled over by a cop and he told us that the reason he pulled us over was because he saw the wing was up. He said he new that when the wing was up, we were going faster than the speed limit because he had a 911 himself. Gave us a ticket.

    My friend argued in traffic court that his was an older model and it went up at 40 or 55 I think. The judge let us go.... True story folks...

    Personally, I think the cop should have let us go because he was a Porsche guy as well.

    Nov 2, 2006 8:24:38 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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    Reply to: chili

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    There is a manual switch on the dash for the wing (you can raise it when car is not even moving), so that can never be a legitimate reason for a ticket (and certainly not for a conviction in traffic court).

    You don't need to prove you set the switch either - it's the Prosecutor's burden to prove you didn't...

    Nov 2, 2006 8:29:04 PM

    Damian
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    Damian
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    ...I agree, the fixed wings look tacky and horrific, like a bad hairpiece on a guy who oughta just shave his head and be done with it...




    Lol
    As bossnine said, it's a necessary aero quirk of 911's tapered shape.

    Unfortunately the alternative might look something like this-- (I read an interview where even Bangle himself implied that he would probably de-hump the 645i rear end somewhat, but wind tunnel data suffered significantly even with only a centimeter or two chopped off!)

    Nov 2, 2006 9:30:56 PM

    MHakkinen
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    MHakkinen
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    Reply to: Damian

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    God that BMW is HIDEOUS. I used to lust for a Beemer, but 'Bangle the Butcher' has ruined it for me completely.

    Nov 2, 2006 9:39:10 PM

    atomic80
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    atomic80
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    Reply to: MHakkinen

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Quote:
    MHakkinen said:
    God that BMW is HIDEOUS. I used to lust for a Beemer, but 'Bangle the Butcher' has ruined it for me completely.



    Just for the record, "Beemers" are BMW Motorcycles. "Bimmers" is BMW cars/suvs.

    Nov 3, 2006 4:15:27 AM

    cibergypsy
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    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: chapse

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    I thought this forum was for exhanging ideas with fellow enthusiasts/owners of Porsche automobiles, and it's not appreciated when someone calls something stupid in this website, when there are many 911 owners who have Aerokits in their cars, including 911s of the past. It's not my belief that the people who have achieved the level of success necessary to purchase a Porsche auto are likely to be stupid or make stupid decisions, are they? A 911 would be subject to unacceptable levels of lift at the high speeds it is capable of sustaining and would be unstable and dangerous. The basic 911 design prevents the use of a diffuser (as on some mid-engine cars) or other subtle aerodynamic aids to generate the downforce needed to keep itself safe at such speeds. That's why it must, at least, have the rising spoiler/lid at the back. As far as the 911 sacrificing top speed with the Aerokit used on the 996s and 997s, why then would a 180+ mph car like a GT3 or GT2 use this aids if the trade between outright speed or controlability wasn't worth it. As you said, if hardly anyone does over 150 anyways, why complain about being able to do 180+ mph with these "stupid" wings when all one should want is 150 mph??? Keep in mind though that to do even the 150 mph mentioned, one still needs some kind of aerodynamic aid on a 911. Either that or the engineers at Porsche are full of it or their marketing department is. I don't put too much weight on the latter because they make the spoiler/lid go back to its normal position at low speeds so as not to disturb the 911's clean lines while around town. I mean no offense to anyone but my 997S has the Aerokit and had to speak up. As far as the cops judging your speed, most people in the streets have no idea of the speed at which the rear lid rises and most cops clock you with the radar or laser without seeing the rear of the car. Maybe that could be an argument for having the Aerokit... since the rear wing is always there - even while standing still...

    Nov 3, 2006 4:43:28 AM

    cibergypsy
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    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: chili

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    I'm out of words about this incident with the ticket for having a spoiler extended. What if you, like I'm sure others have done, put it up manually just to look "cool"?

    Nov 3, 2006 2:41:31 PM

    69bossnine
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    69bossnine
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Opinions are opinions, and there's usually a 50% chance you'll fall on the other side of the bell curve...

    Don't fret it... While we try to maintain a level of civility, darts are allowed to be tossed, and the pot is allowed to be stirred. Success and achievement does not equate a bunch of weirdos exchanging pleases and thank-yous like a pack of androgynous Stepford Wives... I love this forum because of the intelligence, and the humor, and for the most part, the tolerance...

    It would be one hell of a boring forum if we word-checked each post for potentially politically-incorrect language or opinions... Leave that nonsense to the Aston Martin forums... Always remember Animal House, would we rather party at the Omega house, or the Delta??? The Delta, of course. You've just gotta accept that you might get pelted with a beer or two, and keep a close eye on your girlfriend..

    Nov 3, 2006 4:54:05 PM

    MMD
    Rennteam VIP
    MMD
    Loc: usa
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    Reply to: MHakkinen

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Quote:
    MHakkinen said:
    God that BMW is HIDEOUS. I used to lust for a Beemer, but 'Bangle the Butcher' has ruined it for me completely.



    Aw yeah, My first car was a BMW had one for 20 years: now I'm DONE with them.

    Hopefully they will morph again into something good, before I'm too old to drive.

    Nov 3, 2006 4:58:05 PM

    MMD
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    MMD
    Loc: usa
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Always remember Animal House, would we rather party at the Omega house, or the Delta??? The Delta, of course. You've just gotta accept that you might get pelted with a beer or two, and keep a close eye on your girlfriend..



    LOL! good one. Great way to explain it. Though we DO manage to get some studying done here.

    Nov 4, 2006 5:16:50 PM

    cibergypsy
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    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Here is a photo of my 2006 997S with Aerokit and X51 Powerkit.

    Nov 4, 2006 5:24:06 PM

    cibergypsy
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    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: 911 & WIngs

    Here's the engine bay. With all the options included I paid $123000 and change for the car and don't regret it. I figure on keeping the car and, if I want another Porsche later (also have a beautiful 968 for DE), I will then buy it and keep this one also because I won't get my money back on this car and would not feel good about letting someone else enjoy it without paying what it's worth.
     
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