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Oct 20, 2006 8:26:31 PM
- connoisseur
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Oct 20, 2006 9:51:37 PM
- Grant
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Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Quote:
connoisseur said:
This certainly wouldn't be the first time wealthy investors have owned Aston Martin. Let us hope that they understand the car business as well as the investment business.
This might be a good opportunity for these guys to become Millionaires
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
connoisseur said:
This certainly wouldn't be the first time wealthy investors have owned Aston Martin. Let us hope that they understand the car business as well as the investment business.
This might be a good opportunity for these guys to become Millionaires
Ah, yes. It's a well-known fact that you can very quickly make a small fortune manufacturing expensive cars.
But only if you start off with a large fortune.
Oct 20, 2006 10:25:51 PM
- SoCalHoosier
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Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
connoisseur said:
This certainly wouldn't be the first time wealthy investors have owned Aston Martin. Let us hope that they understand the car business as well as the investment business.
This might be a good opportunity for these guys to become Millionaires
LOL... exactly!
Oct 20, 2006 10:51:17 PM
- JimFlat6
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Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Look at the companies and people involved with the potential
buyers of Aston Martin. They know and operate many luxury brands - thats their specialty - wich was something beyond Fords corporate mindset.
I think they would do a good job with Aston Martin.
buyers of Aston Martin. They know and operate many luxury brands - thats their specialty - wich was something beyond Fords corporate mindset.
I think they would do a good job with Aston Martin.
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
In a dynamic industry where the latest whim of the California Air Quality Resources Board can mean another 500 million dollars of unanticipated development costs, these guys must be nuts to get into " The Biz". It's not like the luxury boat biz where two guys resurrected Riva Boats before selling out and are now doing the same thing with the Chris Craft brand before they sell again. That industry hasn't had significant regulatory changes in decades. 
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
I think they might pull it off. They certainly have the experience in the luxury market, if not in the car market.
I believe there is a lot of untapped potential in the luxury car market. Imagine if you could order an AM with a Dior interior, a Vuitton interior, or a Chanel interior. Nobody has done it in decades, yet I'm positive the market is huge. And this is exactly what Arnault is bringing to the table.
On the other hand, I think it'd work better with a French brand, so maybe they could revive Talbot-Lago or Facel-Véga too!
As for emissions, AM would most likely source engines from third parties anyway, so it would not be their problems.
I believe there is a lot of untapped potential in the luxury car market. Imagine if you could order an AM with a Dior interior, a Vuitton interior, or a Chanel interior. Nobody has done it in decades, yet I'm positive the market is huge. And this is exactly what Arnault is bringing to the table.
On the other hand, I think it'd work better with a French brand, so maybe they could revive Talbot-Lago or Facel-Véga too!
As for emissions, AM would most likely source engines from third parties anyway, so it would not be their problems.
Oct 21, 2006 5:17:49 PM
- connoisseur
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Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Custom interiors, within reason, could be accomodated on a production basis. Your marketing research will have to be spot on to prevent your working capital being tied up in useless inventory. As for engines, Aston Martin owners expect to see Aston Martin on the cam covers. Anything else would be a huge psychological hurdle for sales to overcome. 
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Anyone hoping to buy a brand and compete by outsourcing motors, interiors, safety , systems , etc., ends up being a " marketer" of a weird brand like Vector,Saleen, etc., IMO. I don't think buyers at the level will be fooled by the obvious " flip it " after dressing up the books that this deal looks like. Who will set up dealer support , warranty honors, parts inventory so it doesn't take 6 months to get a new suspension bushing sourced ? It takes deep pockets to stay afloat and sell a car around the world , not just 50 a year to a few car nuts . It's not like selling perfume or liquor, where a few iconic products require no changes for years . These cars at this level demand the latest technology and contious improvement and styling changes - which can only come from operating profits- difficult at such small volumes.
As a buyer , I have more confidence when there is a REAL car company in the background, like Lambo with Audi, Ferrari with FIAT , etc.
As a buyer , I have more confidence when there is a REAL car company in the background, like Lambo with Audi, Ferrari with FIAT , etc.
Oct 21, 2006 5:45:44 PM
- The Groom
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Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Don't tell them they're buying a Ford engine with a fancy name on it. Or that the engine on most Bentleys actually comes from a people's car.
In other words, sourcing the engine from another company is not an issue to current customers.
As for custom interiors, I agree, it's a risk. Showroom models would have to be fitted with a pretty neutral combo to avoid this. But most serious buyers would spec their own cars anyway, so why not offer a Chanel option?
Of course, I'd release a new collection every year, and laugh all the way to the bank as customers feel compelled to buy a new car every year...:D
@MKW: Do you truly feel more confident knowing that Fiat is behind Ferrari? I don't.
Indeed, the auto business is very capital-intensive, but I still think a boutique marque has a chance. IMHO the Zonda is the best car on the planet. Customers didn't see any issue in Pagani sourcing engines from MB instead of designing their own.
In other words, sourcing the engine from another company is not an issue to current customers.
As for custom interiors, I agree, it's a risk. Showroom models would have to be fitted with a pretty neutral combo to avoid this. But most serious buyers would spec their own cars anyway, so why not offer a Chanel option?
Of course, I'd release a new collection every year, and laugh all the way to the bank as customers feel compelled to buy a new car every year...:D
@MKW: Do you truly feel more confident knowing that Fiat is behind Ferrari? I don't.
Indeed, the auto business is very capital-intensive, but I still think a boutique marque has a chance. IMHO the Zonda is the best car on the planet. Customers didn't see any issue in Pagani sourcing engines from MB instead of designing their own.
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Quote:
MKW said:
Anyone hoping to buy a brand and compete by outsourcing motors, interiors, safety , systems , etc., ends up being a " marketer" of a weird brand like Vector,Saleen, etc., IMO. I don't think buyers at the level will be fooled by the obvious " flip it " after dressing up the books that this deal looks like. Who will set up dealer support , warranty honors, parts inventory so it doesn't take 6 months to get a new suspension bushing sourced ? It takes deep pockets to stay afloat and sell a car around the world , not just 50 a year to a few car nuts . It's not like selling perfume or liquor, where a few iconic products require no changes for years . These cars at this level demand the latest technology and contious improvement and styling changes - which can only come from operating profits- difficult at such small volumes.
As a buyer , I have more confidence when there is a REAL car company in the background, like Lambo with Audi, Ferrari with FIAT , etc.
Spot-on summary
Today's cars are too tech/R&D/capital/brand/svc support-intensive w/shorter and shorter product half-lives for a quick lever-up and flip LBO....but, then again, 10 yrs ago, no one thought tech LBOs would be doable/profitable....
Besides, AM is too "aspirational" a brand....lacks the powerful, repeat buyer base of <50yo financial industry guys that MB/F seem to have locked-down....
What will be interesting to see is whether F tries to IPO or is sold to private equity guys or sold to another multi-brand mfr...not sure F benefits much from Fiat's dubious safety technologies/mfg infrastructure anyway....F's a brand w/enough loyal, addicted billionaire hedge fund/private equity/VC/tech kings who'd prob like to "own it" for sport/amusement value (any smart financial guy will know how to off-load risk to less savvy lenders/other investors)....
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Quote:
The Groom said:
I believe there is a lot of untapped potential in the luxury car market. Imagine if you could order an AM with a Dior interior, a Vuitton interior, or a Chanel interior. Nobody has done it in decades, yet I'm positive the market is huge. And this is exactly what Arnault is bringing to the table.
.
We don't have to imagine, Its been done and Guess who did it;
"[edit] Designer Editions
For the 1976 model year, Lincoln introduced the Designer Series; special edition Mark IVs with color, trim and interior choices by famous fashion designers. All carried the designer's signature on the opera windows, and had a 22 karat (92%) gold plated plaque on the instrument panel which could be engraved with the original owner's name. The concept was successful, and future Lincolns would continue to offer designer editions.
For 1976, four designer editions were offered:
The Bill Blass Edition was in dark blue with cream accents. The external finish was dark blue metallic paint, with a cream "Normande Grain" landau vinyl roof, cream and gold pinstriping, and cream or dark blue bodyside moldings. Inside, a blue cloth or leather interior used cream accent straps and buttons.
The Cartier Edition was in dove grey. The external finish was dove grey paint, with a dove grey "Valino Grain" landau vinyl roof, red and white pinstriping, and dove grey bodyside moldings. The interior was in dove grey cloth or leather.
The Givenchy Edition was in aqua blue. The external finish was aqua blue "Diamond Fire" paint, with a white "Normande Grain" landau vinyl roof, black and white pinstriping, and white or aqua blue bodyside moldings. The interior was in aqua blue cloth or leather, and the instrument panel was in a special, lighter shade of simulated woodgrain.
The Pucci Edition was in red and silver. The external finish was dark red "Moondust Finish" paint with a silver "Normande Grain" landau vinyl roof, silver and lipstick red pinstriping and red or silver bodyside moldings. The interior was in dark red "Majestic" cloth. "
This is astons high water mark. I see the brand going down hill and then part of history with fords pull out.
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
I'm worried because any time a car company was bought by somebody not from the car industry they screw it. So I think it may be a big "adios" to Aston Martin in about 5 or 6 years when they will have to made a new and I mean a totally new model on the market!... and I will be very sad 
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
I read that Land Rover, Aston, Jaguar combined lost somewhere around $500M for Ford. We know these companies are given much control of their brand vs Mercury or Lincoln. Do these cars have too much overhead? Or is management not capable of running an efficient business. Why are these same brands CONSTANTLY in trouble?
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Thanks racerx, I didn't know about those. At most, I remembered about the Eddie Bauer Aerostar, but does it really count?
@95jersey:
I don't know. It's odd, because Jaguar and Land-Rover models are better than ever.
I think Volvo is making money, and AM is too. So is Mazda. This shows Ford can turn around a company. To tell the truth, I'd trust Ford over GM any day (just compare Volvo and Saab. Need I say more?)
I think Jaguar is bleeding money because of two factors.
First, because of the strong pound (or rather, the cheap dollar). This affects Land Rover as well.
Second, Jaguar has a huge positioning problem. Ford bought Jaguar and Aston Martin with the intent to turn the companies around. To do that, the PAG division tried to increase sales. This means going downmarket.
The problem is that AM and Jaguar had the same kind of customers (except AM customers were wealthier). Aston's new "budget" models are a success. The problem is, those first-time buyers did not really come from other brands. They mostly came from Jaguar.
The second problem is that Jaguar's own "budget" models, the X and S types, flopped, because they did not have a reserve of customers with the same background. I mean, most young rising executives buy a MB or a BMW, not a Jaguar. Typical Jaguar customers don't have anything to prove. Unfortunately for Jaguar, it means potential Jaguar customers already have one.
And if Jaguar repositions its brand in order to capture young customers from BMW or MB, it risks losing its faithful customers.
So the management is stuck with three options:
- the "head in the sand" policy,
- repositioning the brand completely, at the risk of losing longtime customers,
- restoring the former positioning, even if it means competing with the AMV8, even if AM remains a sister company.
@95jersey:
I don't know. It's odd, because Jaguar and Land-Rover models are better than ever.
I think Volvo is making money, and AM is too. So is Mazda. This shows Ford can turn around a company. To tell the truth, I'd trust Ford over GM any day (just compare Volvo and Saab. Need I say more?
)I think Jaguar is bleeding money because of two factors.
First, because of the strong pound (or rather, the cheap dollar). This affects Land Rover as well.
Second, Jaguar has a huge positioning problem. Ford bought Jaguar and Aston Martin with the intent to turn the companies around. To do that, the PAG division tried to increase sales. This means going downmarket.
The problem is that AM and Jaguar had the same kind of customers (except AM customers were wealthier). Aston's new "budget" models are a success. The problem is, those first-time buyers did not really come from other brands. They mostly came from Jaguar.
The second problem is that Jaguar's own "budget" models, the X and S types, flopped, because they did not have a reserve of customers with the same background. I mean, most young rising executives buy a MB or a BMW, not a Jaguar. Typical Jaguar customers don't have anything to prove. Unfortunately for Jaguar, it means potential Jaguar customers already have one.
And if Jaguar repositions its brand in order to capture young customers from BMW or MB, it risks losing its faithful customers.
So the management is stuck with three options:
- the "head in the sand" policy,
- repositioning the brand completely, at the risk of losing longtime customers,
- restoring the former positioning, even if it means competing with the AMV8, even if AM remains a sister company.
Re: 2 Billionaires to buy Aston-Martin?
Finding an engine is not a problem. British car companies have always bought engines from third parties anyway. The "Rover V8", which was a staple of British luxury and sports cars for decades, originally came from a Buick. Current Lotus models are powered by GM or Toyota. Land Rover purchased engines from BMW until this year. I could go on and on.
I'm pretty sure MB or BMW would be happy to oblige. Pagani and Mc Laren didn't have any trouble getting engines developed for them.
I'm pretty sure MB or BMW would be happy to oblige. Pagani and Mc Laren didn't have any trouble getting engines developed for them.
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