Crown

Sport Auto Supertest:

Ring time - 7.18 min.

https://youtu.be/_8ctLNLvxok

This is excellent 

4s faster than the 670hp 488GTB...

Same speed as the AMG GTR on normal Cup tires despite 80hp less...

7.18min is good time. But, when compared to 7.24min achieved by 991.2 Careers GTS Coupe that 7.18min is nothing to talk about. 

Difference in Klein Kurs Hockenheim is very small as well.

KresoF1:

7.18min is good time. But, when compared to 7.24min achieved by 991.2 Careers GTS Coupe that 7.18min is nothing to talk about. 

Difference in Klein Kurs Hockenheim is very small as well.

This comes to proove, that not the GT3 is slow; just the GTS is too good all round car... And a modern turbo engine is difficult to be beaten with a NA one, imv... 

SciFrog:

Or not... Porsche doesn't make a single 911 model that ticks all the boxes...

Right now, even the 991.2 GT2 RS doesn't create an "itch"...which is sad.

I am just fed up with the very same interior over and over again and the sound of the performance models isn't really my thing either (especially Turbo S and even new GT2 RS).

Maybe I just got tired of the 911...or I just realized that there are alternatives (if you don't care about appearance and brand awareness ). 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

KresoF1:

7.18min is good time. But, when compared to 7.24min achieved by 991.2 Careers GTS Coupe that 7.18min is nothing to talk about. 

Difference in Klein Kurs Hockenheim is very small as well.

I disagree - the "advantange" of a GT3 was always that you can do it all day Long.....- I very much doubt that with the GTS - it's a complete different car for a reason.

MKSGR:

crayphile:

nberry:

My .1GT3 delivery was delayed six months and my .2 at least two months.

Porsche should provide an explanation.

My F12 TDF will likely arrive 2 years after my first spec visit (though it was modified subsequently) . Having said that it will be well worth the wait so I am not sweating it.. Don't complain too much about your Porsche delay .

You will still get it now? With the 812 on the road?

Yes, but remember RHD 812 will not hit the streets till Q1 2018

BjoernB:

KresoF1:

7.18min is good time. But, when compared to 7.24min achieved by 991.2 Careers GTS Coupe that 7.18min is nothing to talk about. 

Difference in Klein Kurs Hockenheim is very small as well.

I disagree - the "advantange" of a GT3 was always that you can do it all day Long.....- I very much doubt that with the GTS - it's a complete different car for a reason.

^^ This exactly.

KresoF1:

7.18min is good time. But, when compared to 7.24min achieved by 991.2 Careers GTS Coupe that 7.18min is nothing to talk about. 

Difference in Klein Kurs Hockenheim is very small as well.

The difference is 6s... That is enough to be call significant... Also, the GT3 can replicate this lap time again and again whereas the GTS is less suitable for longer track use.

crayphile:

MKSGR:

crayphile:

nberry:

My .1GT3 delivery was delayed six months and my .2 at least two months.

Porsche should provide an explanation.

My F12 TDF will likely arrive 2 years after my first spec visit (though it was modified subsequently) . Having said that it will be well worth the wait so I am not sweating it.. Don't complain too much about your Porsche delay .

You will still get it now? With the 812 on the road?

Yes, but remember RHD 812 will not hit the streets till Q1 2018

Ok, makes more sense then You will enjoy the car, I am sure 

MKSGR:

KresoF1:

7.18min is good time. But, when compared to 7.24min achieved by 991.2 Careers GTS Coupe that 7.18min is nothing to talk about. 

Difference in Klein Kurs Hockenheim is very small as well.

The difference is 6s... That is enough to be call significant... Also, the GT3 can replicate this lap time again and again whereas the GTS is less suitable for longer track use.

Also the difference in the experience as well, it's not only about the lap times, I'd take the sportier and atmospheric GT3 revving up to 9000rps to the softer and 3.0L turbo GTS any day of the week

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

MKSGR:

crayphile:

nberry:

My .1GT3 delivery was delayed six months and my .2 at least two months.

Porsche should provide an explanation.

My F12 TDF will likely arrive 2 years after my first spec visit (though it was modified subsequently) . Having said that it will be well worth the wait so I am not sweating it.. Don't complain too much about your Porsche delay .

You will still get it now? With the 812 on the road?

It would be similar to asking someone in 2012 why would he take a 599GTO when F12 was around the corner.

extra: 

Some words: Lap was driven the same day as Porsche's 7.12,7, also with the same car. This particular car has no satnav and infotainment systems (saves 7,8 kg) but it has rollcage (+20 kg) and Cup-raceseats (+9 kg). 

My favorite thing I learned about the GT3 today!!

Over the 20.6km Nordschliefe, Timo Kluk only gained 3 seconds from the PDK-S vs. the Manual!

So, at the local track (2.5 miles, 2 minutes) we can expect a difference on the order of Half of one second!

A little (badly translated) excerpt from Supertest:

"SUPERTEST PORSCHE 911 GT3 JAUNDICE There are three keywords for the new Porsche 911 GT3: Suction engine, four-liter, ninety-one. What the extreme-eleven next to the magnificent high-speed boxer still has everything to offer, the Supertest reveals. The moment after which I signed the purchase contract for the new Porsche 911 GT3? Motorway A 5 near Bruchsal: At the front, a sober figure in digital numbers 312 km / h, at the rear celebrates once again a suction engine part - frenetic, screeching, metallic, omitted. The four-liter boxer in the GT3 rear: love at first sound. Porsche occupies a new niche, which was not a niche. Who still offers a suction engine today, which turns up to 9000 tours? This is a dying species.

For me, the new GT3 engine is currently the most emotional unit in the entire sports car scene. And the reason for buying a 911 GT3 is first and foremost the emotions - far ahead of the rationally measurable factors such as lap times, acceleration and braking values. Now, however, the word "supertest" stands above these lines - here the task is to eliminate the emotional and devote itself to the rational reasons. Is it really still there? Is the 911 GT3 still the best option for racing trackclubs? The fact is, the idea GT3 is now over the age. The fact is, however, that 18 years after the presentation of the first Porsche 911 GT3 of the Elfer series 996 the concept of the allegedly ultralative race track neunel is powerful under pressure. On the one hand, the competition is massively refreshed as recently seen in the outstanding super-test performance of the Mercedes-AMG GT R (Nordschleife: 7.11 min, Kleiner Kurs Hockenheim: 1.06.4 min); on the other hand, the 911 GT3 also gets off More and more fire. 911 GTS: How does the GT3 counter? In the last edition, the Porsche 911 Carrera GTS in the Supertest hovered over the northern loop in 7.24 minutes and burned a phenomenal lap time of 1.08.0 minutes in the Asphalt of the Kleine Kurs in Hockenheim. With a powerful 450 hp biturbo and newly developed sports tire, the GTS turned the 911 world upside down. Both the 991 GT3 of the first generation (Nordschleife: 7.32 min, Kleiner Kurs Hockenheim: 1.09.6 min) as well as the 991 GT3 RS (Nordschleife: 7.28 min, Kleiner Kurs Hockenheim: 1.08.5 min) 911 all-rounder called Carrera GTS. Suddenly there is an all-rounder in a smart elf robe, which is not only more everyday, but even faster on the racetrack than the hardcore models from the GT department.

The air for the GT3 has become very thin, but anyone who knows the development history of the GT3 and its makers knows that the wing-911 has impressively repulsed at the right time in times of supposed weaknesses. Nordschleife, April 28, 2017 - Porsche has rented the route exclusively for a day to drive the new GT3 for the first time at the Serientrimm on time. It is exactly the day at the end of which test and development driver Lars Kern the GT3 in an impressive 7.12.7 minutes over the ring. The conditions are perfect - outside temperature 10 degrees Celsius, asphalt temperature 14 degrees - it is better not for a free-sucking engine. Of course, Porsche shows us the GT3 with PDK transmission for the Supertest. How much slower is the handset than the PDK? Test and development driver Timo Kluck drove an impressive little difference of just three seconds on the 28th April between the two transmission variants in favor of the PDK. Thanks, Timo, then I have to do this now and can celebrate the GT3 hand switch on another test day. 14 clock, we turn the time before, after the Werkkutschern may finally the journalistenkutscher with the GT3 on the Nordschleife. There is no time to settle down. A first round of rounds will be followed by a rolling round with a set tire set. The Porsche team then switches to a new and pre-heated wheel set for a further time lap. More than two fast times are not on the agenda today for the Supertest. The Porsche best time of the GT3 was also driven with a new and pre-heated wheel set - due to the rather low outside temperatures, Porsche set on a similar procedure as Mercedes-AMG at the well-known super-race of the GT R. In the same way as the Porsche test drivers, we do not only compete with the same vehicle, which also set the Porsche best time, but also with a non-road racing racing seat from the 911 racing car GT3 Cup. Quite honestly, the feeling is already safer than having a Seriensitz with three-point harness

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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

So 3 seconds difference in a pro's hands between manual and PDK.  Maybe a bit more in an average driver's hands, but auto-blip sure helps.  That's certainly much smaller than the typical gap in driving skills between drivers.

I would expect the gap to be a bit larger on the road (in such things were timed hypothetically), because at the track you usually know where you are going to be shifting.

vantagesc:

So 3 seconds difference in a pro's hands between manual and PDK.  Maybe a bit more in an average driver's hands, but auto-blip sure helps.  That's certainly much smaller than the typical gap in driving skills between drivers.

I would expect the gap to be a bit larger on the road (in such things were timed hypothetically), because at the track you usually know where you are going to be shifting.

I think the only place that PDK-S makes a big performance advantage for a competent driver is in a drag race (the first 50 feet being the biggest difference because of Launch Control).  Even if I had PDK-S, I wouldn't launch it much (too hard on the equipment).

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Well when winning a race is measured in tenths of seconds then 3 seconds is an eternity. I get the preference for the manual but there was a time when absolute performance was the goal of those who rowed their own gears, there just wasn't anything faster either. 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

I think AP mentioned in one of his interviews that both transmissions are almost equally fast up to 160 kph (excluding launch control of course), after which the PDK is quicker.

DaveC:

Well when winning a race is measured in tenths of seconds then 3 seconds is an eternity. I get the preference for the manual but there was a time when absolute performance was the goal of those who rowed their own gears, there just wasn't anything faster either. 

Many races are won by tenths of a second, but almost never at the Nordschliefe.  13 miles is not a normal track!  Different brands of tires in the same performance category make a bigger difference...

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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Gauss:

I think AP mentioned in one of his interviews that both transmissions are almost equally fast up to 160 kph (excluding launch control of course), after which the PDK is quicker.

I think it's the other way around.  Both cars are equally fast Above 160kph...

Actually, PDK-S has better gearing after 4th gear (happens around 233 kph)

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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

BTW, translation from German to English is not very accurate.

More interesting is comparison in drive feel between GTS and GT3 according to CG.

Can you summarize?

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

"What car is easier to drive on the limit? GTS. What car is more confidence inspiring for fast track driving? GTS.

GT3 is more handfull and if you really know how to drive more rewarding.  New GT3 is actually more demanding then 991.1 version."

New GT3 has some "nervousness" built in. Some will claim it makes the car more "alive" and offers way more "feel". 

All this is really interesting since Corsa N0 (GTS) is not as extreme as Cup N1 (GT3) ans that (as well as track temperature etc) should be put into the equation as well.

KresoF1:

"What car is easier to drive on the limit? GTS. What car is more confidence inspiring for fast track driving? GTS.

GT3 is more handfull and if you really know how to drive more rewarding.  New GT3 is actually more demanding then 991.1 version."

New GT3 has some "nervousness" built in. Some will claim it makes the car more "alive" and offers way more "feel". 

All this is really interesting since Corsa N0 (GTS) is not as extreme as Cup N1 (GT3) ans that (as well as track temperature etc) should be put into the equation as well.

Thank you!  I wonder if some of this nervousness can be addressed with a really good alignment?  GT3's tend to be very sensitive to this...

I have no doubt that a GTS is a very fast car (especially if using the same tires).  Where I live (high altitude), I bet a GTS would be quite a bit faster than GT3...

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

GT3 test car used "fastest" alignment.  It is the same test example that did 7.12min in hands of Porsche test driver.

So, alignment is not the issue. 

Porsche deliberately made new GT3 the way it is. And that is a good thing IMO. 

KresoF1:

Porsche deliberately made new GT3 the way it is. And that is a good thing IMO. 

Yeah, it sounds great!  A little nervousness on the Ring translates to much more fun on my slow/tight track...

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

I find the GTS more impressive than the GT3 now. Plus it has AWD and rear seats.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

bluelines:

I find the GTS more impressive than the GT3 now. Plus it has AWD and rear seats.

I bet a couple trips to 9,000 rpm through a Swiss tunnel with the manual gearbox would fix that right up

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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

nberry:

Watt, your PDI is in Houston and not San Diego. Why is that?

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

Think Nick,

It will come to you

Grant:

bluelines:

I find the GTS more impressive than the GT3 now. Plus it has AWD and rear seats.

I bet a couple trips to 9,000 rpm through a Swiss tunnel with the manual gearbox would fix that right up

I still find it more impressive. When considering the time.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White