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R&T 11/06 compares the tip to the manual
auto manual
0-30 1.1 sec 0-30 1.1 sec
0-60 3.3 0-60 3.4
0-100 8.3 0-100 8.8
0-120 12.0 0-120 12.6
1/4 mile 11.6@ 118.3 1/4 mile 11.8@ 116.2
Their conclusion:
"We know the automatic car is faster, but we still don't like it. we continue to prefer the traditional method of making a car go fast and hope the art of driving isn't lost."
You decide
0-30 1.1 sec 0-30 1.1 sec
0-60 3.3 0-60 3.4
0-100 8.3 0-100 8.8
0-120 12.0 0-120 12.6
1/4 mile 11.6@ 118.3 1/4 mile 11.8@ 116.2
Their conclusion:
"We know the automatic car is faster, but we still don't like it. we continue to prefer the traditional method of making a car go fast and hope the art of driving isn't lost."
You decide
Re: R&T 11/06 compares the tip to the manual
Quote:
Alan(NJ) said:
auto manual
0-30 1.1 sec 0-30 1.1 sec
0-60 3.3 0-60 3.4
0-100 8.3 0-100 8.8
0-120 12.0 0-120 12.6
1/4 mile 11.6@ 118.3 1/4 mile 11.8@ 116.2
Their conclusion:
"We know the automatic car is faster, but we still don't like it. we continue to prefer the traditional method of making a car go fast and hope the art of driving isn't lost."
You decide
I think, the R&T test data should be ignored. I have never seen a test in which the manual 997TT did 0-125 in ca. 13s. All tests of the manual were in the 12.0-12.5s corridor.
R&T states 12.6s for 0-120 (!)...
There is something wrong with this test. I would assume that the benefit of Tip in 0-125 is around .1 to .3s maximum, if at all...
Thus, it is safe to say that neither Tip nor Manual is faster. They deliver identical performance.
My advice would be: select the gear box technology based on personal preferences and assume that the chosen gear box technology has no performance implications at all
Re: R&T 11/06 compares the tip to the manual
Quote:
MKSGR said:
My advice would be: select the gear box technology based on personal preferences and assume that the chosen gear box technology has no performance implications at all
Well, unfortunately it has...
Also, as I already have pointed out (but apparently only a few are listening
): it is a huge advantage to be able to keep both hands at the steering wheel when driving fast, especially through twists and turns. With a pro driver at the steering wheel, I agree, there won't be much difference between manual and Tip, maybe the manual would be even a tick faster (if I remember right, Walter Röhrl was only 2 seconds or so faster with a manual 997 Turbo on the Nordschleife...a 20.1 km length track). For a half-way talented amateur driver, the Tip will always be faster under all circumstances, like it or not. At least this has been my personal experience. I even started to use a new strategy for my runs, I turn off sport chrono when I need the AWD to show a "stabilizing" function and I leave sport chrono turned on when I profit from strong oversteer. The only thing which could be a tick better when driving hard with Tip would be a slightly better throttle response at lower rev figures but with a "pre-emptive" throttle strategy and without applying "kickdown", it can be overcome easily.
Tiptronic is no fun killer but you have to get used to it because it requires a few changes in throttle operation. Whoever lacks a "sensitive" throttle foot, should stick with manual.
Oct 8, 2006 8:02:58 PM
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MKSGR
- Rennteam Moderator
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- Loc: Germany , Germany
- Posts: 8098, Gallery
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- Reply to: turbonator
Re: R&T 11/06 compares the tip to the manual
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
My advice would be: select the gear box technology based on personal preferences and assume that the chosen gear box technology has no performance implications at all
Well, unfortunately it has...
You probably agree that any performance differences are fairly marginal
Thus, the decision boils down to driver preferences (like those you describe, i.e. the possibility of keeping both hands on the steering wheel etc.)...
More from R&T
2007 Porsche 911 Turbo
List price $129,685
Price as tested $141,285
Curb weight 3610 lb
Engine, transmission 3.6 liter turbo F-6; 5-spauto.
Horsepower, bhp @ rpm 480 @ 6000
0-60 mph 3.3 sec
0-100 mph 8.3 sec
0-1320 ft (1/4 mile) 11.6 sec @ 118.3 mph
Top speed 193 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph 116 ft
Braking, 80-0 mph 207 ft
Lateral accel (200-ft skidpad) 0.97g
Speed thru 700-ft slalom 70.7 mph
Our mileage, EPA city/highway est 18.0, 17/25 mpg
It's been a long-standing tradition that true sports cars are equipped with manual transmissions, putting the driver in full control and enabling him to extract the utmost from his machine. Things have changed: Computers can simulate logic, and machines can manipulate things more accurately and quickly than humans. Clutch pedals and stick shifts are giving way to buttons and paddles. Increasingly, the automobile is becoming less and less in our control - anti-lock brakes with brake assist and force distribution, yaw and traction control, active suspension, electric steering with variable ratios, active cruise control - all for the better they say. But lost is the necessity for skills that once made racing drivers famous.
It is no surprise that Porsche's Tiptronic electronically controlled automatic transmission is good, but it is a surprise to learn that it makes the 2007 911 Turbo quicker down the drag strip. Aside from special applications, the torque converter has always been considered a hindrance. In this case the Tiptronic even has one less gear, being a 5-speed. The 6-speed manual on the face of it should clearly out-drag the two-pedal car. Nay, it does not. Power-braking the Tiptronic loads the turbo and builds boost before the car leaves the line. To build boost in the manual-equipped car would require excessive slipping of the clutch. This delay in building boost gives the advantage to the torque-converter-equipped Tiptronic - the gain being a tenth of a second to 60 mph despite its taller first gear.
The ability of the Tiptronic system to quickly shift gears shaves time the whole length of the strip - pulling out two more tenths. This is because the turbo stays under load while the Tiptronic shifts - keeping the 480 bhp at work pushing the car. In contrast, the manual is given pause three times in the quarter- mile as the driver changes gears.
List price $129,685
Price as tested $141,285
Curb weight 3610 lb
Engine, transmission 3.6 liter turbo F-6; 5-spauto.
Horsepower, bhp @ rpm 480 @ 6000
0-60 mph 3.3 sec
0-100 mph 8.3 sec
0-1320 ft (1/4 mile) 11.6 sec @ 118.3 mph
Top speed 193 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph 116 ft
Braking, 80-0 mph 207 ft
Lateral accel (200-ft skidpad) 0.97g
Speed thru 700-ft slalom 70.7 mph
Our mileage, EPA city/highway est 18.0, 17/25 mpg
It's been a long-standing tradition that true sports cars are equipped with manual transmissions, putting the driver in full control and enabling him to extract the utmost from his machine. Things have changed: Computers can simulate logic, and machines can manipulate things more accurately and quickly than humans. Clutch pedals and stick shifts are giving way to buttons and paddles. Increasingly, the automobile is becoming less and less in our control - anti-lock brakes with brake assist and force distribution, yaw and traction control, active suspension, electric steering with variable ratios, active cruise control - all for the better they say. But lost is the necessity for skills that once made racing drivers famous.
It is no surprise that Porsche's Tiptronic electronically controlled automatic transmission is good, but it is a surprise to learn that it makes the 2007 911 Turbo quicker down the drag strip. Aside from special applications, the torque converter has always been considered a hindrance. In this case the Tiptronic even has one less gear, being a 5-speed. The 6-speed manual on the face of it should clearly out-drag the two-pedal car. Nay, it does not. Power-braking the Tiptronic loads the turbo and builds boost before the car leaves the line. To build boost in the manual-equipped car would require excessive slipping of the clutch. This delay in building boost gives the advantage to the torque-converter-equipped Tiptronic - the gain being a tenth of a second to 60 mph despite its taller first gear.
The ability of the Tiptronic system to quickly shift gears shaves time the whole length of the strip - pulling out two more tenths. This is because the turbo stays under load while the Tiptronic shifts - keeping the 480 bhp at work pushing the car. In contrast, the manual is given pause three times in the quarter- mile as the driver changes gears.
Re: More from R&T
Quote:
R&T said:
It is no surprise that Porsche's Tiptronic electronically controlled automatic transmission is good, but it is a surprise to learn that it makes the 2007 911 Turbo quicker down the drag strip.
... Power-braking the Tiptronic loads the turbo and builds boost before the car leaves the line. To build boost in the manual-equipped car would require excessive slipping of the clutch.
This is not a new phenomenon with turbos and Porsche Tiptronic.
The X50-equipped 996TT is actually no faster than the standard car in 0-60 MPH runs when equipped with a six-speed transmission, even though the quarter mile times are better.
Only when both are equipped with a Tiptronic transmission can the X50 version outrun the standard turbo motor to 60 MPH.
The X50, while boasting more maximum torque and power, has more turbo lag from rest, and exhibits less torque at low engine speeds than the normal power plant. The torque converter in the Tip allows the X50 turbos to spool up more quickly than would otherwise be the case if using a six-speed.
The 997TT Tip takes the same game to new levels.
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