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    Oct 3, 2006 2:30:22 PM

    edz
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    edz
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    A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Dear Friends, this past week on one of the busy streets close to where I live. Two teenagers decided to race their dad cars, a 2003 M3 and a 2005 CLK55 AMG. Evidently they were both doing well in the 100's mph speed and one lost control and hit the other. Then both went off the road, one got killed instantly and the other one is now in critical condition with very slim chance to live.

    I know we all do crazy things, some of us are better drivers than others but regardless racing on public streets are dangerous specially with a punk driver who puts the pedal to the metal without thinking. If there is no one around on an open road that's one thing and even then we have to be very cautious.

    So now we have two fathers that have lost their sons and cars

    So be careful out there my friends, use your best judgement, driving is fast is one thing but racing another car is a different story, particularly for those with ego larger than earth. If the condition is not appropriate to race then let it go and do not get tempted, nothing is worth losing your live over

    Oct 3, 2006 2:43:10 PM

    adrift
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    I think the loss of their sons makes the loss of the cars insignificant.

    Racing another car is NEVER appropriate, except on the track under controlled conditions, by trained drivers. Competition makes people act reckless and aggressive, just what you DON'T want on public roads.

    Oct 3, 2006 4:59:18 PM

    Targa Tim
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    Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada
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    Reply to: adrift

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    I feel sorry for the two dads...

    Our kids grew up with fast cars in our garages. The question is when is the right time to let them borrow our cars?

    Oct 3, 2006 5:01:20 PM

    krown05
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    Reply to: adrift

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    I agree, street racing, especially top-end is stupid and a hazard to not just yourself but to others on the road. I know we all have our temptations, but racing should be done on a track. It's one thing to "open up" your car on an empty road, and another to do it with others present. My condolences to the family and friends that lost those two young men.

    Oct 3, 2006 5:18:33 PM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: krown05

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    I read about this story. Very tragic. Too much car for teenagers to drive.

    My son and daughter will only be allowed to drive Honda Civics until they graduate from college and get their own jobs. Then, it's up to them what they drive.

    Oct 3, 2006 5:57:41 PM

    Stephenkng
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    I will never let my teenager kid to drive my P-car. For 300+ hp, it is way too much for them to handle. It will do nothing except causing their life

    Oct 3, 2006 6:04:21 PM

    Mike S
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    Reply to: Stephenkng

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    It depends, I was driving 380hp cars when I was 18. I knew where the limits were and what was appropriate at that moment. I only got brave after almost 1-2 years of driving those kind of cars.

    Sad to hear none the less, my thoughts and prayers are with those families.

    Oct 3, 2006 8:06:44 PM

    Pabs1
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    The question is :
    Did they take the cars with or without permission?
    If the parents were aware , where is the responsibility ?
    I know it is tragic, but for kids to drive such powerful cars is nuts.
    It reminds me of the parents who got their kid a 911 turbo for his 16 birthday , then the kid gets killed a week later and then the parents sue Porsche and the dealer for negligence............

    Oct 3, 2006 8:28:52 PM

    boxsterboy
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    Reply to: Pabs1

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Quote:
    Pabs1 said:
    It reminds me of the parents who got their kid a 911 turbo for his 16 birthday , then the kid gets killed a week later and then the parents sue Porsche and the dealer for negligence............



    Oct 3, 2006 9:08:40 PM

    Dan L
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    Reply to: boxsterboy

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Many many years ago it was the leaving out of a prized bow and arrow that got many an Indian boy into trouble. This is just an update to an age old problem of inadequate parenting.

    Oct 4, 2006 12:59:55 AM

    JMShrink
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    Reply to: Pabs1

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Quote:
    Pabs1 said:
    It reminds me of the parents who got their kid a 911 turbo for his 16 birthday , then the kid gets killed a week later and then the parents sue Porsche and the dealer for negligence............


    Guilt can certainly lead to projection of blame..

    Oct 4, 2006 1:19:37 AM

    Stephenkng
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    If you know you have kids like that. You better don't let your keys unattented and have them lock at all time.

    Oct 4, 2006 7:54:22 AM

    BC
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    Loc: Cape Town , South Africa
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    Reply to: Mike S

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    It depends, I was driving 380hp cars when I was 18. I knew where the limits were and what was appropriate at that moment. I only got brave after almost 1-2 years of driving those kind of cars.

    Sad to hear none the less, my thoughts and prayers are with those families.



    True... Same here Mike.
    In the begining, under correct supervision it's Ok, but on their own its a no-no.
    Sad story

    Oct 4, 2006 7:58:48 AM

    BC
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    BC
    Loc: Cape Town , South Africa
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    Reply to: JMShrink

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life


    Quote:
    Pabs1 said:
    It reminds me of the parents who got their kid a 911 turbo for his 16 birthday , then the kid gets killed a week later and then the parents sue Porsche and the dealer for negligence............




    I'm really sorry and dont mean to offend anyone, but that is plain stupid.
    Both them suing Porsche and them getting the 'child' that car.

    Oct 4, 2006 10:20:31 AM

    Queram Offline
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    Reply to: BC

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Is it matter that the cars were M3s or AMG Benzs. You should see the souped up civics, pugs, renaults, fiats here. We see one off the road on current bases resulted in deaths or bad injuries. To not give a fast car is not the solution, to teach the responsible driving behaviour is. If in any case I fail to educate my child to be responsible than at least I prefer him to be in an M3 rather than a pug.

    Oct 4, 2006 12:12:06 PM

    pic911s
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    This has been a great dilemma for me also. My son is 20 and I have only let him drive the car twice since buying my 997 in 05 and both times with me as the passenger. On the one hand I want him to experience what I only dreamed about at his age and on the other I know that for his experience and for where his brain is at these days, he just can't be put alone behind the wheel of one of these cars. There is just too much temptation to get into trouble and I'd rather bring him to the track with me for driver training experience and let him feel the need for speed in a controlled environment.

    I know many of you posters have had the fortune of driving one of these cars from a very young age but I beleive that only in the hands of a resonsible individual should these type of machines be given to people under 21. This type of accicdent is happeneing all the time here in Toronto and I think a lot of these kids think its like a video game where if they go off the track nothing happens to them.

    Lets be responsible parents and give them a little tough love and let them earn their own Porsche etc. The consequences are far to costly.

    Oct 4, 2006 1:22:15 PM

    John H Offline
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    Reply to: pic911s

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Quote:
    pic911s said:
    I think a lot of these kids think its like a video game where if they go off the track nothing happens to them.




    I think this is a very good point indeed.

    Simulators, with instruction, where the consequences of inappropriate actions can be analyzed and corrected, is one thing. Constant use of video games, where the only consequence is starting over again, can only lull gullible youngsters into pushing the bounderies too far!

    Oct 4, 2006 1:32:11 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: pic911s

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Sad story indeed!

    Quote:
    pic911s said:
    This has been a great dilemma for me also. My son is 20 and I have only let him drive the car twice since buying my 997 in 05 and both times with me as the passenger. On the one hand I want him to experience what I only dreamed about at his age ...



    Queram & you really pointed out the essentials. I could always feel entrusted by my Dad driving his cars but we do have a close relationship and both talk cars once in a while.
    I have had fair chances to drive powerful cars at younger ages as well and did know my limits - if I would have children in that age I would provide them with a SAFE yet economical daily driver and the occasional drive in the Porsche once in a while. One thing to remember is the responsibility one has with any kind of machinery - you wouldn't let your 4 year old use the kitchen stove on his or her own as well, would you? If one appears to have a responsible behaviour why shouldn't he or she be rewarded for that?

    Oct 4, 2006 2:16:10 PM

    Vincenzina
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Kids should be kids......where the heck were they able to go over 100MPH,...My dad always gave me the evil eye. If I was bad he would go get the belt...no thanks, ran from one side of the room to the other one too many times.
    This is a tragedy, sorry to hear, all in the name of fun!!!

    Oct 4, 2006 3:28:08 PM

    adrift
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    adrift
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    Reply to: Vincenzina

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Let your kid learn to drive your car at an AutoX, with a PCA instructor in the passenger seat. Perfect place to learn how to drive a car with minimal chances fo doing harm.

    It will cost you some rubber, but possibly save your kids life and let him/her share your enjoyment of the car.

    Oct 4, 2006 7:10:36 PM

    AJVIP
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    Reply to: adrift

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    All teenagers should drive Volvos....

    Oct 4, 2006 7:28:55 PM

    throt
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    Loc: London , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Quote:
    pic911s said:
    I think a lot of these kids think its like a video game where if they go off the track nothing happens to them.




    Imo I dont think thats correct , and if they do believe it they need to seek help quickly , because its only a matter of time for them anyway..

    Its due to (imo) them getting behind the wheel of an exotic to easily , if one works there arse off for something then that one has better respect for the product , its called maturity , its that simple..

    All the best to the familys....

    throt....

    Oct 4, 2006 11:13:37 PM

    tincanman99
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Ridiculous. Sad yes but who let them drive the cars?

    Teenagers should not be driving cars like this regardless of what kind of training they have. Do you think that just because they had some training they wont be teenagers? Please, I have a bridge to sell you too... Boys are boys and will drive like idiots.

    I did it, you did it, everyone does it. It does not mean its right but it is just what is. Give them old under powered civics and let them beat them the cars to a pulp. Which is what they will do.

    No teenager should be driving a car like that.

    Oct 5, 2006 8:06:45 PM

    folsomdoc
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    folsomdoc
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    Reply to: adrift

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Last week my wife and I are eating dinner at our favorite Japanese restaurant in a toney community nearby, Granite Bay, CA. There is a group of clean cut 16-18 year old boys, all in white T-shirts. Looked like a sports team out for a meal. They left a few minutes ahead of us, and when we walked out we found them crowded around two of their mates driving away in a Ford GT. Parents that allow that are in the same class as those who leave loaded weapons around the house. You give a teenage boy the keys to a supercar, he's going to go fast, no matter what he says. It's no gift to give your kid the chance to kill him/her self and others. I said no to my 19 year old when he asked if he could borrow the Porsche, had a talk about trust, temptation, judgement, all of that. Our relationship is intact, and so is he. If I still have the beast, when he turns 25, it's his.

    Oct 5, 2006 9:12:45 PM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: folsomdoc

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Why do they (north america) let 16 years olds drive is beyond my believe. It nuts, over here in canada they get on the road without ANY f-ing experience. the lessons are a joke and i see stupid car manuevres everyday. Its absolutely ridiculous over here. And they know the danger as well because at the same time we have to have an N displayed which warns other road uses that we're "unexperienced" and our rules are strict such that we can only take one person with use because they know two or more will cause us to do stupid [beep]. This shows that they're pretty much aware that 16 year olds are too young to drive.
    I just turned 20 and ive been considering for a very long time to get a 944 Turbo used. Now just having entered universtity i decided to get a brand new Ford Focus, manual which i know will be safe and reliable.
    My dad has never allowed me to drive his 06 SL55 AMG and i understand, althought i still would want to drive it. but he showed me the power and its scary with my experience to drive this thing.

    this is such a tragic thing and i hope it becomes less friquent very soon!

    Oct 5, 2006 9:17:23 PM

    bstew
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    Reply to: Dan L

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    sad sad sad

    Oct 5, 2006 10:39:35 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    I was coming out of a hi rise building in the elevator there were two kids, 18 or 19 max. Very nice and well mannered, in jeans and white t-shirt. one had a diamond bracelet 5" wide and also had very nice shoes on. I thought to myself perhaps his parents have money. Once we got in the parking they got in a brand new Murcielago. I said nice car dude and he just noded. What this tell us? Who is the [beep] buying a kid a $275K car? What the hell will he want to drive when he is 30? A jet? Granted, very nice kids not your typical punk a$$ kid at all but parents have no brains. The day I bought my 997S, a recent high schoo, grad showed up with his parents and drove away in a Bently CGT by himself. He was pi$$ed because his parents would not let him get the windows tinted. Poor little boy he has such cruel parents.

    Oct 6, 2006 5:10:20 AM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    Reply to: adrift

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    Quote:
    adrift said:
    Let your kid learn to drive your car at an AutoX, with a PCA instructor in the passenger seat. Perfect place to learn how to drive a car with minimal chances fo doing harm.

    It will cost you some rubber, but possibly save your kids life and let him/her share your enjoyment of the car.



    Oct 6, 2006 4:15:46 PM

    Scotty A
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    Reply to: MAVERICK

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    My son got to drive our four-year old Toyota Previa (minivan) when he got his license, then his first new car at 19 was a Honda Accord. My daughter got the family's Subaru Legacy wagon, and her first car was a Jetta. Both of them, and virtually everyone of their friends, got into some sort of accident during the first two years of driving. No one can really develop the experience and judgement that's required to drive safely without a lot of hours behind the wheel, and teenagers are significantly challanged by the fact that they are all basically insane.

    I know what I did as a kid, like driving my father-in-law's 440CI Chrysler Imperial at 100mph. No seat belts, no brakes worth worrying about, steering by wishing. I wouldn't put my kids in front of that temptation.

    I'd be happy to let any of them drive the 997 now, but only with me as a passenger. However, none of them can drive a stick, so it's their loss.

    Oct 6, 2006 4:40:24 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: Scotty A

    Re: A tragedy resulting in loss of life

    In general I'd say there are two ways how to handle a car - by continuous skill and talent. If both come together, the better. This doesn't exclude the above mentioned posts but it should point out why some kids are better of with extensive tuition. I have to point out that I look at it from a European standpoint (and drivers education).

    The loss in life is tragic all by itseslf, but it might make some other people rethink their ideology.
     
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