Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Porsche GT - Page1

Mar 21, 2004 12:18:45 PM

Mange: Newbie; Loc: Sweden; Posts: 27, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 14, 2004

Porsche GT

I really like the 928, and it says now, that Porsche will make a new GT.

So my questin to you is; how do you want the GT to be? Engine, weigt, etc.

This is what I want it to be like:
* A turbocharged boxer 8, 3000-4000 cc whith 320 - 380 hp
* 2+2 seats
* Weight about 1450 kg
* A targa roof as optional (like 968 or something)
* 4WD
* A good tiptronic/automatic gearbox as optional (Maybe the DSG)

The boxer 8 could be used in future 911's, because I whould rather see a boxer 8 in the 911, than a V8. Whouldn't you?
I think there should be two diffrent engines in the GT, one powered by petrol, and one with hydrogen.

Mange

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Mar 21, 2004 2:45:28 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: Mange

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
I really like the 928, and it says now, that Porsche will make a new GT.

I think it's more likely they will produce a four door sedan with room for three in the back. Using the Cayenne V8 would make more sense than developing a new flat 8. Remember, they are into trimming costs right now and the V8 is a great motor with room for expansion.

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Mar 21, 2004 3:46:39 PM

Mange: Newbie; Loc: Sweden; Posts: 27, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 14, 2004; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:

I think it's more likely they will produce a four door sedan with room for three in the back. Using the Cayenne V8 would make more sense than developing a new flat 8. Remember, they are into trimming costs right now and the V8 is a great motor with room for expansion.

Ok. Is the market for 4-doors so big today? I whould rather have a 2+2 than a 4-door.

BTW, why did Porsche stop the 928 produktion? As I have seen it, it seems that meny people like the 928.

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Mar 21, 2004 4:03:41 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Mange

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
Mange said:
BTW, why did Porsche stop the 928 produktion? As I have seen it, it seems that meny people like the 928.

Well Mange, many people liking a car is not the same as many people buying it. Production of the 928 was stopped when it dropped to about 1 car per day.

The model had just become too old (over 15 years?) to compete, and it probably didn't seem to make sense to invest in a completely new follow-up model back then.

fritz

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Mar 21, 2004 4:10:18 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: Mange

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
Ok. Is the market for 4-doors so big today? I whould rather have a 2+2 than a 4-door.

The market for a four door is certainly much larger than the market for a 2+2, at least in the US where the bulk of the sales would be expected to occur.

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Mar 21, 2004 5:08:30 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
GM Austin said:
The market for a four door is certainly much larger than the market for a 2+2, at least in the US where the bulk of the sales would be expected to occur.

Very well said, Gary.

Let's face the facts:
1. the most important market for Porsche is the US right now.
2. the Cayenne seems to be a huge success (finally...

) but not all people in the US and other countries who want a "family Porsche" like the SUV concept.
3. it is pretty easy (and cost-effective) for Porsche to use Audi/Bentley/VW technical knowhow and engineering as a basis to build a good 4-door sedan, using the current Cayenne engines.

What worries me a little bit: I'm pretty sure that the Cayenne already took away customers from the 911 and even Boxster and a 4-door sedan would be even more "dangerous" for sports car sales because some people might think that owning ONE Porsche instead of two (sports car and SUV) makes much more sense, especially if the rumored 4-door sedan is much lighter than the Cayenne.
Time will tell but Porsche should start to build sportier 911 and Boxsters as a "contrast" to the Cayenne and the rumored 4-door sedan. If they fail to make the 911 and Boxster much sportier, it could end in a disaster regarding sportscar sales.

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Mar 21, 2004 5:14:56 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Mange

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
Mange said:
I really like the 928, and it says now, that Porsche will make a new GT.

Did you read the HOT NEWS on Rennteam.com?

I also recommend to check older posts regarding the "4th model".

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Mar 21, 2004 5:40:38 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Porsche GT

RC,

I get the feeling lately that Porsche management doesn't care too much about detracting sales from their sportcars with their non-sportcar model or future models. The sale is still made "in the house" and seems like they are shifting markets to more generalised vehicles maybe because they think the sportcar market is too volatile/risky or has no future for smaller specialised manufactures and only the large ones can really compete in the future due to a solid foundation on their mainstreem mass models.

I'm no prophet or expert but its slowly becoming more clear to me that they are really putting sportcars on the side and focusing on sporty cars as a business move. So if they loose 911 minoritarian exclusive sportcar customers the gain mayoritarian family sporty car customers. And they will regard their sportcars business line more as a marketing image tool for their main non-sportcars line. I hope I'm wrong but I see Porsche in the medium future turning into what AMG, Quattro Gmbh or ///M is now though independant, but very close tied to the VW/Audi group.

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Mar 21, 2004 6:14:32 PM

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Romania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Porsche GT

And what if someday porsche decides that sportscars sales are too low to be worth it, and just cancels them?

Anyway, by then i hope to have enough money to start my own porsche

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Mar 21, 2004 6:19:37 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
What worries me a little bit: I'm pretty sure that the Cayenne already took away customers from the 911 and even Boxster and a 4-door sedan would be even more "dangerous" for sports car sales because some people might think that owning ONE Porsche instead of two (sports car and SUV) makes much more sense, especially if the rumored 4-door sedan is much lighter than the Cayenne.
Time will tell but Porsche should start to build sportier 911 and Boxsters as a "contrast" to the Cayenne and the rumored 4-door sedan. If they fail to make the 911 and Boxster much sportier, it could end in a disaster regarding sportscar sales.

I bet Ferrari and Lambo are liking this. More shift from 911 die-hearts to Ferrari and Lambo if they let their sports line die.

Now it doesn't sound like a bad idea if Porsche gets taken over by a giant company so they can pump money into making real sports cars.

Ferrari & FIAT, Lambo & Audi, Aston & Ford, Porsche & ? (would it be next?)

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Mar 21, 2004 7:11:22 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Now it doesn't sound like a bad idea if Porsche gets taken over by a giant company so they can pump money into making real sports cars.

You know, I used to think that was a horrific and dangerous idea but now the more I see what is going on, I'm starting to really agree. I can't be any worse if Porche was bought by a big company;
- they have no racing program which is repeatedly promised and then delayed again,
- they are building non-sportcar or exclusive models,
- they are sharing parts and platforms with other companies
- and they are de-sportifying their sportcars.

All to remain independant. So whats the advantage of being independant? if you have to turn into what you are fighting against? its still a bunch of hired suits thats calling the shots either way. The only advantage I see is for the different hands the profits are going to, nothing more. Only non-profitable makers are in danger of being sacked or changed into something unrecognisable if the shot are called from the outside by their bigger owner. On the other hand, if Porsche is profitable and succesful at making sportcars (which obviously is), it has nothing to fear about being run by another company. Porsche doesn't need outside engeneers or managers to run things differently to save the company or make a different concept of sportcar, Porsche is very succesfull at it already, they just need the back up and security of a big company so they can dedicate to their sportcar philosophy it was founded on.

If we look at other "similar" sportcar companies that were bought (Ferrari, Maserati, Aston, Bentley, Lambo, etc), Porsche would likely get ;

- funding for a decent racing program (Le Mans, F1, you name it),
- they will be able to devote all their resources to building sportcars and not have to dilute themselves with non-sportcars and their R&D resources to remain independant,
- and best of all, they can go back to building exclusive and specialised models that we all love once again with no fear.

So with the fear of being turned into something else by another company if they were bought, they are doing exactly that by trying to remain independant, right now paradoxically it seems that being bought is the best thing that can happen to Porsche for us all-time Porsche enthusiasts.

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Mar 21, 2004 9:19:47 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
RC,

I get the feeling lately that Porsche management doesn't care too much about detracting sales from their sportcars with their non-sportcar model or future models. The sale is still made "in the house" and seems like they are shifting markets to more generalised vehicles maybe because they think the sportcar market is too volatile/risky or has no future for smaller specialised manufactures and only the large ones can really compete in the future due to a solid foundation on their mainstreem mass models.

Carlos, I talked to a few people close to Porsche and you'll be surprised to hear that all of them were pretty concerned because of the slow 911/Boxster sales and the huge success of the Cayenne. The Cayenne was supposed to improve Porsche sales, not to sell better than the 911/Boxster.
Of course Porsche is happy about Cayenne sales but they are very worried about sports car sales and there is no intention whatsoever to give up sportscar development, on the contrary.

Porsche needs a better world econony and especially a better US economy. They were hoping for a dropping Euro, for a stronger US economy and for more wealthy people especially in the US. Unfortunately things look different and maybe this is one reason why the sportscar market has been "put aside" a little bit in favor of the "family" Porsche Cayenne.
To my knowledge, the Boxster was supposed to be the first model to be facelifted but Porsche changed plans in favor of the 911. The 911 is much more important for Porsche because they earn more money with it than with the Boxster. The 911 is also some kind of symbol of Porsche tradition and if the 911 "fails", the whole company is in danger.

Right now I heard that the new 911 gets a 350 HP engine and the "S" version a 380 HP engine to satisfy 911 customers and critics. At the current weight level, the new 997 will definetely show a performance improvement compared to the current 911. Of course people shouldn't expect 911 Turbo performance from an ordinary 911.

The 997 Turbo is rumored to be a story of it's own, finally braking the 500 HP barrier. People at Porsche seem to be fed up with all those AMG's and Lambos and they decided to build a super 911 Turbo which shocks the competition. I hope these rumors are correct.

To make it short: Porsche doesn't forget about their sports cars.

Maybe the marketing department tried too hard to make people believe that the Cayenne is a sports car disguised as a SUV but I think even most Cayenne owners know by now that this isn't true.
As soon as traditional sports car buyers realize that the Cayenne is just another product to keep Porsche alive for the next decade, they'll hopefully return to Porsche.

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Mar 21, 2004 10:12:45 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
The 997 Turbo is rumored to be a story of it's own, finally braking the 500 HP barrier. People at Porsche seem to be fed up with all those AMG's and Lambos and they decided to build a super 911 Turbo which shocks the competition. I hope these rumors are correct.

Rc,
This IS hopeful

hope this rumor comes true

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Mar 21, 2004 10:32:30 PM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
RC said:
The Cayenne was supposed to improve Porsche sales, not to sell better than the 911/Boxster.

This does not surprise at all considering the profile of the average 911 buyer here in the states...to be perfectly honest.

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Mar 21, 2004 11:00:59 PM

dan996: Expert; Loc: Delray Beach, Florida, , United States; Posts: 1563, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: Porsche GT

There are always two sides to a story. The Cayenne is a hugh success for Porsche AG. Not as true from the US Dealers point of view. They are giving Cayennes away in order to sell them. Maybe not the 6 cyl because of the price point, but the 8 cyl is not profittable. The dealer body has to make money as well, other wise it will cost them long term.

I just bought a A8 and this is a very fine car. I choose not to buy a Cayenne because by the time I put the equipment on it that I want it becomes a $76k car in the US. I much prefer the A8. Everything was an option on the Cayenne and most of the things on the A8 were standard. There was a $12-13k difference in base price and became the same MSRP. The Cayenne is losing resale value because of the discounts. This will create a long term sales problem for Porsche when people realize that even though they received a good deal when they bought, they still lost money long term and will not repurchase a Cayenne. How do I know this, just look at what has happened to the Boxster in the US. They started giving them away a few years ago and now sales are gone.

If they come out with 4 door sedan, I have no doubt that it will be one of the best driving sedans built, but will I buy one? Depends on what is available at the time and what is standard. I think paying a fair price for a product is ok, I do not like to overpay. Porsche should learn this now before the US dealers tell them to keep their Cayennes like they told them to keep their Boxsters.

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Mar 22, 2004 6:10:21 PM

wickeddeus: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 19, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2004; Reply to: dan996

Team up!

Porsche and Honda!!!

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Mar 23, 2004 11:29:15 AM

Mange: Newbie; Loc: Sweden; Posts: 27, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 14, 2004; Reply to: Mange

Re: Porsche GT

What about this one? I think it was called 929 or something...

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Mar 23, 2004 11:31:55 AM

Mange: Newbie; Loc: Sweden; Posts: 27, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 14, 2004; Reply to: Mange

Re: Porsche GT

Here is an article...

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Apr 3, 2004 5:23:28 PM

Mange: Newbie; Loc: Sweden; Posts: 27, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 14, 2004; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Porsche GT

How light do you think it is possible to build a good GT?

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Apr 4, 2004 4:03:32 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Mange

Re: Porsche GT

Quote:
Mange said:
What about this one? I think it was called 929 or something...

Mange,
It was called the 989. (See the number plate). The project was stopped when it was realised that the car could not be built profitably.

fritz

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