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    Aug 3, 2006 11:32:32 PM

    dsts6
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    997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    My dads looking mainly at the 997tt. I think he should consider the GT3, but whats the GT3 like as an everyday or everyotherday sort of car. Is it really uncomfortable? Too loud? Please some non biased responses. The GT3 just seems like better value for money. He won't track the car much myabe a couple times, he probably won't drive it that fast but I still think the GT3 will be a better feel car. Let me know what you think.

    And with either of his desicion, is PCCB important, again he wont track it much so do the regular breaks offer the same breaking power as the PCCBs when they aren't being used over and over agian really hard like in track driving?

    Thanks for the response before hand.

    Aug 3, 2006 11:35:57 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: dsts6

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    The turbo will be the better every day car, the GT3 will be better for the track.

    Aug 3, 2006 11:51:55 PM

    roadtrip
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    Reply to: trip

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    there's a reason there are so many 996 gt3's are for sale with minimal mileage. imo they aren't great daily drivers. could the 997 suffer a similar fate?

    a 10k brake job wouldn't be helpful.

    Aug 3, 2006 11:53:23 PM

    dsts6
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    Reply to: trip

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    trip said:
    The turbo will be the better every day car, the GT3 will be better for the track.


    I know but the GT# is more cheap, exciting, looks better...but is it acceptable. Is it an racer that can go on the street or a street car that is very good on the track. Is it uncomfrotable to drive on roads with potholes compared to the tt.

    Aug 4, 2006 12:05:01 AM

    993S
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    Reply to: dsts6

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    The turbo will be the better every day car, the GT3 will be better for the track.


    I know but the GT# is more cheap, exciting, looks better...but is it acceptable. Is it an racer that can go on the street or a street car that is very good on the track. Is it uncomfrotable to drive on roads with potholes compared to the tt.



    Yes , that is correct. If you have teeth fillings make sure they are well fixed when driving over potholes with a GT3. I love the GT3 very much but ordered the Turbo just because it is the ideal compromise as an every day sports car

    Aug 4, 2006 12:16:10 AM

    Kevin034
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    Reply to: 993S

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Get the GT3.

    The GT3 can be like the TT (just drive it nicely and avoid the potholes), but a TT will never EVER be like a GT3.

    And get PCCBs. Ballers only drive cars w/ PCCBs.

    Aug 4, 2006 3:57:57 AM

    PyroKerry
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    Reply to: Kevin034

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    I'd recommend the Turbo but it really depends on the sort of car he is used to driving. If you've spent your life with stiff suspension cars as every day drivers, then that's one difference you don't have to worry about. But that's not the only difference. The Turbo with its AWD is a much better car to drive day in and day out. Don't bother with the PCCBs.

    Aug 4, 2006 7:37:55 PM

    devo
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    Reply to: Kevin034

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    Kevin034 said:
    Get the GT3.

    The GT3 can be like the TT (just drive it nicely and avoid the potholes), but a TT will never EVER be like a GT3.

    And get PCCBs. Ballers only drive cars w/ PCCBs.




    The only time the GT3 is comparable/ even better than the turbo is in it's track times. On the street neither is anything like the other. Both are utterly awesome cars, but as we all know, the GT-3 is at home on the track, whereas the turbo is at home anywhere.
    Like Pyrokerry said, get the turbo, skip the PCCBs.

    Aug 4, 2006 8:02:40 PM

    Kevin034
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    Reply to: devo

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Get the GT3 w/ PCCBs. Seriously. It's just awesome.

    Aug 6, 2006 8:12:57 AM

    Moogle
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    Reply to: Kevin034

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    I drive my 996GT3 with straight pipes everyday... then again, I'm a young guy and I can tolerate the harsh ride and noise. Love every minute of it.

    Some say even the stock is too loud - they should be driving a Mercedes CL class

    Aug 8, 2006 12:23:59 AM

    TT Gasman
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    The GT3 and the TT are street cars not race cars. If you really want a track only (race) car then buy a Cup Car and be done with it.

    Aug 8, 2006 8:13:51 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: TT Gasman

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Get the PCCB's.
    If you got an honest answer when you asked 100 guys here if they could have the PCCB's at a no cost option and would cost the sane for a brake job I bet 99 would get them. So in other words unless it's not affordable get them. If money is an issue then consider the steel.

    Aug 9, 2006 10:18:49 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Get the PCCB's.
    If you got an honest answer when you asked 100 guys here if they could have the PCCB's at a no cost option and would cost the sane for a brake job I bet 99 would get them. So in other words unless it's not affordable get them. If money is an issue then consider the steel.



    Exactly my opinion.

    Porsche steel brakes are good and at the 997tt they dimensioned big enough (even visually ), but PCCB/CCM are the best you can get.

    Aug 9, 2006 10:27:44 AM

    993S
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    [
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Get the PCCB's.
    If you got an honest answer when you asked 100 guys here if they could have the PCCB's at a no cost option and would cost the sane for a brake job I bet 99 would get them. So in other words unless it's not affordable get them. If money is an issue then consider the steel.



    I agree , however , it is far from the same price and although I can easily afford them I decided not to take them. The new steel brakes are so extremely good that there is no reason to get them , other than showing of you have the latest and the best or of course for track use but my car will most likely never see a track.
    To me it is simply not worth the extra money.

    Aug 9, 2006 10:36:39 AM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: 993S

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    993S said:
    [
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Get the PCCB's.
    If you got an honest answer when you asked 100 guys here if they could have the PCCB's at a no cost option and would cost the sane for a brake job I bet 99 would get them. So in other words unless it's not affordable get them. If money is an issue then consider the steel.



    I agree , however , it is far from the same price and although I can easily afford them I decided not to take them. The new steel brakes are so extremely good that there is no reason to get them , other than showing of you have the latest and the best or of course for track use but my car will most likely never see a track.
    To me it is simply not worth the extra money.



    You forget how much better they feel too, a lot more progressive pedal feel.
    For me, driving a sports car is about feedback and it doesn't get better than that.
    Steel brakes, although efficient, do not offer that level of braking input.
    Handling of the car is also improved due to non suspended mass shaved off.

    They are expensive, true, but they sell.
    I've got them on my 911 and am never going back to steel brakes.

    Aug 9, 2006 10:57:09 AM

    993S
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Maybe I should try one with PCCB's.
    But I am convinced the steel brakes give all the pedal feel you need. I also can imagine the PCCB top them in that department. But I have a hard time justifying that extreme price difference. If it was a reasonable difference I would take them for sure.

    Aug 9, 2006 11:27:09 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    They are expensive, true, but they sell.



    But unfortunately they are not getting cheaper...

    Aug 9, 2006 1:22:22 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: 993S

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    993S said:
    [
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Get the PCCB's.
    If you got an honest answer when you asked 100 guys here if they could have the PCCB's at a no cost option and would cost the sane for a brake job I bet 99 would get them. So in other words unless it's not affordable get them. If money is an issue then consider the steel.



    I agree , however , it is far from the same price and although I can easily afford them I decided not to take them. The new steel brakes are so extremely good that there is no reason to get them , other than showing of you have the latest and the best or of course for track use but my car will most likely never see a track.
    To me it is simply not worth the extra money.




    That's exactly my point: "To me it is simply not worth the extra money"

    But if the dealership said they'd throw in free PCCB's on your build and change PCCB brake parts for life at the steel brake part cost would you take the PCCB's for free ?

    Most car nuts here would agree I think that if the cost and maintenance of the PCCB's were the same as the steel they'd get the PCCB's for their many performance (pedal feel & reduced un sprung weight/possibility of better handling & longer life) and other advantages (lack of brake dust, rusty water and crudded up hubs & brake assemblies) and cooler looks (larger front discs). The only disadvantage is cost. Or maybe somebody hates yellow.

    So when someone says don't get the PCCB's what they're really saying is I don't think they are worth the money. IMHO it's strictly a financial decision. All things ($) being equal most everybody would get the PCCB's.

    I currently have the steel on my 997 S Cab and Carbon Ceramics on my Stradale and where I can perhaps justify steel on a $90k 997 S (although I'll never get steel again if given a choice) the turbo/turbo cab, GT3 and F430's really should have PCCB's/CCM's. If you're going to spend $140-$170k on a turbo (more on a 430) & probably more than the $9k cost for PCCB's on various options like Carbon Fiber, leather and other doo-hickies it would be better spent on the cars braking system. jimho.

    Just one guys opinion but getting my 997 w/ steel brakes and spending $15k on other options was a mistake on my part. I should have left off half of the options and gotten PCCB's. The steel brakes on my 997 really suck _ _ _

    Aug 9, 2006 1:29:50 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Get the PCCB's.
    If you got an honest answer when you asked 100 guys here if they could have the PCCB's at a no cost option and would cost the sane for a brake job I bet 99 would get them. So in other words unless it's not affordable get them. If money is an issue then consider the steel.



    Exactly my opinion.

    Porsche steel brakes are good and at the 997tt they dimensioned big enough (even visually ), but PCCB/CCM are the best you can get.




    True that.
    One of the positive things Porsche did of course was to change the front Caliper size on the turbo to 6 piston like the PCCB's. If they didn't it would be even more a reason to go w/ the PCCB's. Size does matter, right? They probably can't increase the size of the front steel rotors to the size of the PCCB's because of the weight of rotating mass and maybe cost.

    Aug 9, 2006 1:32:32 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: 993S

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    993S said:
    Maybe I should try one with PCCB's.
    But I am convinced the steel brakes give all the pedal feel you need. I also can imagine the PCCB top them in that department. But I have a hard time justifying that extreme price difference. If it was a reasonable difference I would take them for sure.




    Ah, you already answered my question.
    Try scaling back on some options. Even if you can cut some options by $4500 then they become more reasonable $ wise.

    Aug 9, 2006 3:15:07 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Get the PCCB's.
    If you got an honest answer when you asked 100 guys here if they could have the PCCB's at a no cost option and would cost the sane for a brake job I bet 99 would get them. So in other words unless it's not affordable get them. If money is an issue then consider the steel.



    Exactly my opinion.

    Porsche steel brakes are good and at the 997tt they dimensioned big enough (even visually ), but PCCB/CCM are the best you can get.




    True that.
    One of the positive things Porsche did of course was to change the front Caliper size on the turbo to 6 piston like the PCCB's. If they didn't it would be even more a reason to go w/ the PCCB's. Size does matter, right? They probably can't increase the size of the front steel rotors to the size of the PCCB's because of the weight of rotating mass and maybe cost.



    That may be the case. How big is the steel version, I think 350 mm all around. Now that is big enough for looks only, especially if you consider it in combination with the 6 piston calipers at the front.

    But the most embarassing thing are the 330 steel rotors in the airy 19" standard rims of the F430. "Girly brakes" is the perfect description. It's better with the optional Challenge rims and also the relatively solid 19" Carrera S rims hide the tiny brake discs rather well.

    But for cars like the F430, 997tt, GT3 CCM/PCCB-brakes are a must.

    Aug 9, 2006 3:17:09 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Just one guys opinion but getting my 997 w/ steel brakes and spending $15k on other options was a mistake on my part. I should have left off half of the options and gotten PCCB's. The steel brakes on my 997 really suck _ _ _



    Correct, better save some money by not ordering useless Exclusive-leather-carbon-wood-aluminium applications and get the PCCB instead!

    Aug 9, 2006 3:41:21 PM

    993S
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    993S said:
    Maybe I should try one with PCCB's.
    But I am convinced the steel brakes give all the pedal feel you need. I also can imagine the PCCB top them in that department. But I have a hard time justifying that extreme price difference. If it was a reasonable difference I would take them for sure.




    Ah, you already answered my question.
    Try scaling back on some options. Even if you can cut some options by $4500 then they become more reasonable $ wise.



    yes I did , but again , I do not need to cut back on my options if I want PCCB's. That really is not the problem.
    Maybe I should reconsider. An extra concern that I do have is the following, I change wheels a lot. I mean maybe 3 to 5 times a year. If I touch/hit the brake disk with a wheel I will most probably damage it my dealer told me. It seems you need special tools to change wheels. Is this correct ?

    Aug 9, 2006 6:05:16 PM

    Uber-porker
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Why are people refering to non-PCCB brakes as "STEEL" when the rotors are IRON ? Are the rotors on 997TTs actually steel or does it just sound cooler than iron? Sorry to be a "truth-in-speech" bore.

    Aug 9, 2006 8:31:05 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: Uber-porker

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    Uber-porker said:
    Why are people refering to non-PCCB brakes as "STEEL" when the rotors are IRON ? Are the rotors on 997TTs actually steel or does it just sound cooler than iron? Sorry to be a "truth-in-speech" bore.



    Take a piece of advice from another wannabee zero-tolerance truth-in-speech bore: Don't worry about it! It can be fun to adopt that attitude to annoy others.

    To your question: Cast iron sounds so darn old-fashioned, early-industrial-revolution age, and low-tech that nobody wants to believe that it would still be used in a modern sports car.

    So everybody likes to think that if it rusts, it's got to be steel.

    Aug 9, 2006 8:44:07 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: 993S

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    993S said:
    An extra concern that I do have is the following, I change wheels a lot. I mean maybe 3 to 5 times a year. If I touch/hit the brake disk with a wheel I will most probably damage it my dealer told me. It seems you need special tools to change wheels. Is this correct ?



    Sort-of correct.

    The "special tools" are just 2 metal "pins" about 150 mm (6") long, maybe 14 mm in diameter, with a screw thread at one end of each. You screw them into two of the wheel bolt holes after first removing the bolts. This allows you to use the pins as guides to pull the wheel straight off the hub when changing wheels, to avoid the risk of the wheel inner rim falling onto the PCCB rotor and chipping it. The pins are part of the tool kit of cars supplied with PCCB brakes.

    Aug 9, 2006 8:51:09 PM

    993S
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    993S said:
    An extra concern that I do have is the following, I change wheels a lot. I mean maybe 3 to 5 times a year. If I touch/hit the brake disk with a wheel I will most probably damage it my dealer told me. It seems you need special tools to change wheels. Is this correct ?



    Sort-of correct.

    The "special tools" are just 2 metal "pins" about 150 mm (6") long, maybe 14 mm in diameter, with a screw thread at one end of each. You screw them into two of the wheel bolt holes after first removing the bolts. This allows you to use the pins as guides to pull the wheel straight off the hub when changing wheels, to avoid the risk of the wheel inner rim falling onto the PCCB rotor and chipping it. The pins are part of the tool kit of cars supplied with PCCB brakes.



    OK , thanks , so comes with the car and is indeed very simple. I might have to reconsider.
    Other question : can one order red calipers on the PCCB's ?
    Do not like the yellow much.

    Aug 9, 2006 9:09:58 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: 993S

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    993S said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    993S said:
    An extra concern that I do have is the following, I change wheels a lot. I mean maybe 3 to 5 times a year. If I touch/hit the brake disk with a wheel I will most probably damage it my dealer told me. It seems you need special tools to change wheels. Is this correct ?



    Sort-of correct.

    The "special tools" are just 2 metal "pins" about 150 mm (6") long, maybe 14 mm in diameter, with a screw thread at one end of each. You screw them into two of the wheel bolt holes after first removing the bolts. This allows you to use the pins as guides to pull the wheel straight off the hub when changing wheels, to avoid the risk of the wheel inner rim falling onto the PCCB rotor and chipping it. The pins are part of the tool kit of cars supplied with PCCB brakes.



    OK , thanks , so comes with the car and is indeed very simple. I might have to reconsider.
    Other question : can one order red calipers on the PCCB's ?
    Do not like the yellow much.



    Yes on the PCCB Caliper colors. But its very expensive
    for some paint-close to 5000 Euros I think RC said.

    Aug 9, 2006 10:06:49 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Just one guys opinion but getting my 997 w/ steel brakes and spending $15k on other options was a mistake on my part. I should have left off half of the options and gotten PCCB's. The steel brakes on my 997 really suck _ _ _



    Correct, better save some money by not ordering useless Exclusive-leather-carbon-wood-aluminium applications and get the PCCB instead!





    Great minds think alike.

    Aug 10, 2006 7:45:28 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: 997ttvs.997GT3 and No PCCB v. PCCB-sorry to be annoying

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Quote:
    993S said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    993S said:
    An extra concern that I do have is the following, I change wheels a lot. I mean maybe 3 to 5 times a year. If I touch/hit the brake disk with a wheel I will most probably damage it my dealer told me. It seems you need special tools to change wheels. Is this correct ?



    Sort-of correct.

    The "special tools" are just 2 metal "pins" about 150 mm (6") long, maybe 14 mm in diameter, with a screw thread at one end of each. You screw them into two of the wheel bolt holes after first removing the bolts. This allows you to use the pins as guides to pull the wheel straight off the hub when changing wheels, to avoid the risk of the wheel inner rim falling onto the PCCB rotor and chipping it. The pins are part of the tool kit of cars supplied with PCCB brakes.



    OK , thanks , so comes with the car and is indeed very simple. I might have to reconsider.
    Other question : can one order red calipers on the PCCB's ?
    Do not like the yellow much.



    Yes on the PCCB Caliper colors. But its very expensive
    for some paint-close to 5000 Euros I think RC said.



    5 grand?

    Can't believe it costs really that much, painting the calipers at a Ferrari costs you about 700 Euro (which still is outrageous ).
     
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