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    Aug 4, 2006 6:28:38 PM

    mp
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    mp
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    Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    After recently posting my negative opinions about Road & Track's "World Superpowers" test on their Forum, Shawn Bailey (their road test editor) responded.

    While he didn't mention anything about the tt's questionable clutch, he did address tires, weather etc.

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=12968

    Aug 5, 2006 9:22:40 PM

    Gary(SF)
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    Reply to: mp

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Good response. His comments on the tires are in line with my experience at track days.

    Gary

    Aug 6, 2006 9:49:37 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: Gary(SF)

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Quote:
    Gary(SF) said:
    Good response. His comments on the tires are in line with my experience at track days.

    Gary



    I don't know...sounds more like a "give them some logical explenation fast" BS.

    I still wonder if this "review" done by R&T was done ALONE or together with another (italian?) car magazine. It reminds me a lot of a recent review of the same cars in an italian car magazine, incl. the bad straightline performance figures for the 997 Turbo. 0-100 mph in 9.5 seconds? Impossible.

    Aug 6, 2006 9:58:29 AM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Road and Track has a very strange accelleration testing policy. They claim they try to achieve numbers that would be the same for a average driver. So no hard launches in their tests.

    On the other hand they say that they do not "correct" the data to what they think it should be as some other mags do.

    Whatever.

    They have turned into geeks and dorks over the past decade. Now they seem more concerned about cupholders and quietness then sports cars used as sports cars.

    Aug 6, 2006 10:11:54 AM

    ARMD009
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    JIM: So no hard launches in their tests.

    how did they get 3.9/9.6 sec for the C2S ?
    flying start..lol

    Aug 6, 2006 10:19:21 AM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: ARMD009

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Thats what they say.

    Who knows how or why they got those other times.

    Aug 6, 2006 12:21:25 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Gary(SF) said:
    Good response. His comments on the tires are in line with my experience at track days.

    Gary



    I don't know...sounds more like a "give them some logical explenation fast" BS.

    I still wonder if this "review" done by R&T was done ALONE or together with another (italian?) car magazine. It reminds me a lot of a recent review of the same cars in an italian car magazine, incl. the bad straightline performance figures for the 997 Turbo. 0-100 mph in 9.5 seconds? Impossible.



    It was supposedly the same test as in Quattroroute.

    Aug 6, 2006 7:21:37 PM

    W8MM
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    W8MM
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Road & Track has a very strange acceleration testing policy. They claim they try to achieve numbers that would be the same for a average driver. So no hard launches in their tests.

    On the other hand they say that they do not "correct" the data to what they think it should be as some other mags do.

    Whatever.



    Road & Track has always had a slightly "tweedy" outlook on cars. At least when John Dinkle and Kim Reynolds were there, they used to try to do a good job with better techniques and instrumentation. Now look. Oh, well.

    When I read this latest explanation by the editor, I smelled expedience creeping in as a larger priority than accuracy. I surmise that it was just too tempting to get an inexpensive test locked in for the publisher. But, it suffers the obvious cost of accurate, repeatable, transferable data. There is a real pressure to put out more info at lower cost all over journalism these days. It's just too difficult for some editorial staffs to do good, original field work, yet still manage to get out of bed the next morning. R&T seems to have swallowed a big bite of the forbidden apple on this one.

    Car and Driver from time immemorial has "normalised" their test reporting using common NHRA air density correction equations. Engines make power by virtue of being good oxygen pumps. Barometric pressure and air temperature are direct variables in the oxygen content of the testing conditions. To claim that these corrections are useless or somehow taint the true results seems anti-intellectual to me.

    A pox on their house!

    Aug 6, 2006 7:48:59 PM

    WBH
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Rennteam seems to know & disseminate awfully reliable "rumors" re: impending new cars much faster (and more reliably) than any car mag ....and rennteam's critical mass of seasoned amateur owners/drivers often do their own informal testing and share very helpful, relatively unbiased subjective driving "feel" impressions ....

    IMO, given this new media world of past 2-3 yrs, the days are clearly numbered for archaic printed rags w/poor test data methods and poorly disguised "conflicts" due to their dependence on declining mfr ad revs and need for "constructive" relationships w/the various car cos. for "priority" access to test cars, freebies and lavish trips for car launches, etc etc.....

    Personally, I buy fewer and fewer of these rags every mth....stopped reading US rags prob 2 yrs ago...and now I just typically skim the Brit rags at my local newsstand....but losing my interest in them as well, as I (and other prolific new car buyers/enthusiasts I know) often find very different impressions of the cars we buy/drive vs the claimed subjective diffces portrayed in the various rags....

    Aug 6, 2006 7:50:57 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Isn't Quattroroute considered the top Auto magazine in Europe?

    Mike, you better than anyone realize that test are always flawed. However, they do make good reading.

    Aug 6, 2006 7:56:50 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    No, Nick it is not. Only two car manufactures are performing very good to excellent in quattroroute BMW and Ferrari. I am not defending 997 turbo here but, saying that I do not like quattroroute at all. Automobilismo is far better Italian car magazine IMO.
    Best European car magazines(and not only European IMO) are EVO and Sport Auto.

    Aug 6, 2006 8:16:57 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Best European car magazines(and not only European IMO) are EVO and Sport Auto.



    Absolutely!

    sportauto for the facts. And EVO for the fun.

    Aug 6, 2006 8:24:32 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    No, Nick it is not. Only two car manufactures are performing very good to excellent in quattroroute BMW and Ferrari. I am not defending 997 turbo here but, saying that I do not like quattroroute at all. Automobilismo is far better Italian car magazine IMO.
    Best European car magazines(and not only European IMO) are EVO and Sport Auto.



    Is it the best selling magazine in Europe?

    Whatever happened to Von saurma's Ring time in the 997TT? Also, based on what we have read regarding the TT perf. compared to the Z06 does anyone still doubt the Z06 Ring time of 7.42?

    Aug 6, 2006 8:27:06 PM

    Turbo Al Offline
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Best European car magazines(and not only European IMO) are EVO and Sport Auto.



    Absolutely!

    sportauto for the facts. And EVO for the fun.



    ALL car mags. are in value akin to Playboy-I look at them only for the pictures.

    Aug 6, 2006 8:34:00 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    997 Turbo Supertest will be published in Sport Auto in October or November issue. Belive it or not but, Ring time for 997 Turbo(manual/LSD) and Vette Z06 will be in von Saurma hands more or less same! Just remember that Vette Z06 is faster around Hockenheim...
    Nick, it is very interesting that now after 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto most people here are trying to find out some sort of "men in Black" involvement in that test! Because 997 Turbo did not perform the way they expected in that test! Same thing about comparison test in EVO...
    It seems to me that 997 turbo fans will now claime that best mags are Auto Bild(because they achive 0-200km/h in 12.1s!) and stupid Motor Trend(997 Turbo Ring time 7.40min with WARP Motor Trend drive!)....
    Funny, isn't it?

    Aug 6, 2006 8:53:55 PM

    throt
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Oooo ,, you girls can get bitchy at times..All this my ""Daddy is bigger than your Daddy"" BS becomes a bit tiresome at times ..Who gives a stuff ! , I mean , its like being back at school..

    throt..

    Aug 6, 2006 9:07:39 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    997 Turbo Supertest will be published in Sport Auto in October or November issue. Belive it or not but, Ring time for 997 Turbo(manual/LSD) and Vette Z06 will be in von Saurma hands more or less same! Just remember that Vette Z06 is faster around Hockenheim...
    Nick, it is very interesting that now after 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto most people here are trying to find out some sort of "men in Black" involvement in that test! Because 997 Turbo did not perform the way they expected in that test! Same thing about comparison test in EVO...
    It seems to me that 997 turbo fans will now claime that best mags are Auto Bild(because they achive 0-200km/h in 12.1s!) and stupid Motor Trend(997 Turbo Ring time 7.40min with WARP Motor Trend drive!)....
    Funny, isn't it?



    Hehehe when it comes to Porschephiles, they live in a world with blinders. If Porsche is not the best then something is wrong and the world is not right.

    BTW I knew Von Saurma would save Porsche butt. The 997TT must be a transitional car for Porsche but they are selling it as the latest and greatest. Porsche castrated this car and are trying to pawn it of as some sort of supercar.

    Aug 6, 2006 9:46:58 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Road & Track Magazine's Test Editor Explains ...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    997 Turbo Supertest will be published in Sport Auto in October or November issue. Belive it or not but, Ring time for 997 Turbo(manual/LSD) and Vette Z06 will be in von Saurma hands more or less same! Just remember that Vette Z06 is faster around Hockenheim...
    Nick, it is very interesting that now after 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto most people here are trying to find out some sort of "men in Black" involvement in that test! Because 997 Turbo did not perform the way they expected in that test! Same thing about comparison test in EVO...
    It seems to me that 997 turbo fans will now claime that best mags are Auto Bild(because they achive 0-200km/h in 12.1s!) and stupid Motor Trend(997 Turbo Ring time 7.40min with WARP Motor Trend drive!)....
    Funny, isn't it?



    Hehehe when it comes to Porschephiles, they live in a world with blinders. If Porsche is not the best then something is wrong and the world is not right.

    BTW I knew Von Saurma would save Porsche butt. The 997TT must be a transitional car for Porsche but they are selling it as the latest and greatest. Porsche castrated this car and are trying to pawn it of as some sort of supercar.



    Nick, the Turbo IS a supercar, just not as good as it could be. No matter, Porsche will undoubtably release the powerkit, X73 and PSE to make everybody happy (at a cost). I suspect the GT2 will be the car to own.
     
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