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    Aug 1, 2006 5:12:18 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: OneCarrut

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Quote:
    OneCarrut said:
    I usually own any where from 5 to 11 cars at a time (not all of them being either Ferraris or Porsches) I drive my cars hard and often to either their or my limits. As with every forum I am on, my opinion, your opinion are merely opinions. I remember a white 79 Targa that I really liked was stolen years ago, licence plate said toot (was a partier those days), still miss that car. Hey I like convertables too, my 360 spider was fun, but my 460 coupe was a better driving car. Like I said just my opinion.



    I couldn't agree with you more.

    Fanch, I have read so many different versions as to how the CGT was developed, I do not know what to believe.

    Aug 1, 2006 7:45:24 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    OneCarrut said:
    My 06 430 6 speed coupe is my 4th Ferrari, My 06 997S Cab is my 39th Porsche. I love them both, yes they are different, but I happen to be one of those who believe that coupes are drivers cars, convertables are cruising cars. Cars are my passion and my vice, and I am neither a Porsche guy or a Ferrari guy, I am a car guy. I will say this much though, for pure driver feedback, Ferrari is tough to beat.



    Well you got almost everything right. Convertibles provide the excitement of everyday driving that coupes lack unless you are on a track. Keep in mind, the CGT the ultimate performance Porsche, is a convertible.

    BTW, the 997 GT3 and RS are based on everything I have read, apparently are exciting track cars to drive.



    Nick, I agree that cabrios are very cool, but I'd be really worried about flipping over in one of those things. After all, a coupé has a fixed roof.

    Aug 1, 2006 10:14:11 PM

    Blk987S
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Driving your 430 was an amazing experience! I was really amazed at what a complete package it is. The speed of the car really is only a part of the overall enjoyment. Everything is so well balanced and the sound of the engine is amazing. I really appreciate your generosity letting me test it.

    Aug 1, 2006 10:24:10 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: Blk987S

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Quote:
    Blk987S said:
    Driving your 430 was an amazing experience! I was really amazed at what a complete package it is. The speed of the car really is only a part of the overall enjoyment. Everything is so well balanced and the sound of the engine is amazing. I really appreciate your generosity letting me test it.



    I'm sure Nick appreciated it too. After all, SOMEBODY had to drive that car faster than 55 !

    Aug 1, 2006 11:07:00 PM

    Blk987S
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Blk987S said:
    Driving your 430 was an amazing experience! I was really amazed at what a complete package it is. The speed of the car really is only a part of the overall enjoyment. Everything is so well balanced and the sound of the engine is amazing. I really appreciate your generosity letting me test it.



    I'm sure Nick appreciated it too. After all, SOMEBODY had to drive that car faster than 55 !




    You mean 155! After I tested his car I tried following in my 987S and he dissapeared into the distance

    Aug 2, 2006 12:06:58 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: Blk987S

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Quote:
    Blk987S said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Blk987S said:
    Driving your 430 was an amazing experience! I was really amazed at what a complete package it is. The speed of the car really is only a part of the overall enjoyment. Everything is so well balanced and the sound of the engine is amazing. I really appreciate your generosity letting me test it.



    I'm sure Nick appreciated it too. After all, SOMEBODY had to drive that car faster than 55 !




    You mean 155! After I tested his car I tried following in my 987S and he dissapeared into the distance



    Next time, don't drive in reverse .

    (Just kidding !)

    Aug 2, 2006 12:20:11 AM

    Porky Tokyo
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    OneCarrut said:
    My 06 430 6 speed coupe is my 4th Ferrari, My 06 997S Cab is my 39th Porsche. I love them both, yes they are different, but I happen to be one of those who believe that coupes are drivers cars, convertables are cruising cars. Cars are my passion and my vice, and I am neither a Porsche guy or a Ferrari guy, I am a car guy. I will say this much though, for pure driver feedback, Ferrari is tough to beat.



    Well you got almost everything right. Convertibles provide the excitement of everyday driving that coupes lack unless you are on a track. Keep in mind, the CGT the ultimate performance Porsche, is a convertible.

    BTW, the 997 GT3 and RS are based on everything I have read, apparently are exciting track cars to drive.



    The CGT is a Barchetta with a possibility to add a roof.
    It was initially designed as an open cockpit car with maximum rigidity, as opposed to a 430 Spyder or a 997 cab which are based on their coupe equivalent, have had the roof chopped off and enforcement added in the weak points.



    Actually, I watched an interview with one of the Ferarri directors who said that the 430 was actually designed as a convertible and then the coupe was developed. The reason being they guessed that there will be a higher number of Spider orders as was the case with the 360. In addition, he explained why Ferrari didn't want a hard top like MB or a glass rear window. I can't remember all the details but it did make a lot of sense and also it did mean the coupe and the spider could be released a lot quicker. I can't remember now but I think the 360 spider was a few years later than the coupe.

    He did add though, that most "drivers" or long time enthusiasts would not buy spiders and that the Coupe is only better on a track by a wee bit. The spider doesn't compromise your average dude.

    BUT, he did say that a lot of people who buy the Spiders are first time buyers or people who are very keen on what they look like : )

    And this is a quote from the FERRARI guy - NOT ME - he said the boys like the 430 and the men like 575

    I like the 430 personally so don't give me headache over this quote

    Aug 2, 2006 4:56:24 AM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: Porky Tokyo

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    "BUT, he did say that a lot of people who buy the Spiders are first time buyers or people who are very keen on what they look like : )"

    This is the only thing I can trully believe out of this. The rest sounds like crap. The 430 is an evo of the 360 and a coupe was always planned so this stuff about the 430 as a Spyder first doesn't sound believable. Whatever they think sells I guess.

    Aug 2, 2006 5:39:51 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: SrfCity

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    "BUT, he did say that a lot of people who buy the Spiders are first time buyers or people who are very keen on what they look like : )"

    This is the only thing I can trully believe out of this. The rest sounds like crap. The 430 is an evo of the 360 and a coupe was always planned so this stuff about the 430 as a Spyder first doesn't sound believable. Whatever they think sells I guess.



    Exactly. The 430 is just an evolution of the 360. Of course the Spider was planned from very the beginning (unlike the 355, where the Spider came later - and the owner had to live with such handicaps as loss of chassis stability, crap hood mechanism etc.), but the coupé was first at the planning sheets.

    Aug 2, 2006 7:52:22 AM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: Porky Tokyo

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Indeed, the V12 clientele is very different from the V8 clientele.
    I had a ride in a GTB lately and although I didn't like the pics when it came out, I am in love with the car.
    Well done Ferrari!
    Still dislike the back of the 430.

    Not sure about Boys and Men comparaison, but they definitely see it along those lines at the factory, but not that bad.
    Zzoba is definitely a man. Nick, go figure...

    Seriously though, driver's choice remains the Challenge Stradale, which should be out soonish we hope.

    Aug 2, 2006 8:05:01 AM

    icon
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Indeed, the V12 clientele is very different from the V8 clientele.
    Not sure about Boys and Men comparaison, but they definitely see it along those lines at the factory, but not that bad.
    Zzoba is definitely a man. Nick, go figure...


    i thought the eight cylinder f-cars were for women?

    jeff

    Aug 2, 2006 9:08:42 AM

    zzbobaA
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    Quote:

    Not sure about Boys and Men comparaison, but they definitely see it along those lines at the factory, but not that bad.
    Zzoba is definitely a man. Nick, go figure...




    Aug 2, 2006 4:05:57 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    "BUT, he did say that a lot of people who buy the Spiders are first time buyers or people who are very keen on what they look like : )"

    This is the only thing I can trully believe out of this. The rest sounds like crap. The 430 is an evo of the 360 and a coupe was always planned so this stuff about the 430 as a Spyder first doesn't sound believable. Whatever they think sells I guess.



    Exactly. The 430 is just an evolution of the 360. Of course the Spider was planned from very the beginning (unlike the 355, where the Spider came later - and the owner had to live with such handicaps as loss of chassis stability, crap hood mechanism etc.), but the coupé was first at the planning sheets.



    Let me give you the skinny on the 430. No doubt it is a derivation from the 360. However, in making the design changes it was done with the Spider in mind because Ferrari learned that interest in the 360 Spider was much greater than the coupe.

    I can understand why they say the 430 is a boy car and the v12 a man car. Driving a 430 spurs on the emotions of a kid giddy with delight as he/she tools around a track in a go cart. It gives a driver a rush that he could not experience in a V-12 since it is a GT car very much like the 997TT.

    BTW, the 430 is a girls car. Last week while waiting at a light, a car with four one girls pulls along side and the one in the back behind the driver side say's to me "What a beautiful car. I would screw you in a second" Clearly they were having fun but the car does get noticed by women.

    Aug 2, 2006 4:12:41 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Let me give you the skinny on the 430. No doubt it is a derivation from the 360. However, in making the design changes it was done with the Spider in mind because Ferrari learned that interest in the 360 Spider was much greater than the coupe.



    So please enlighten me about the differences between the 430 Spider and the 360 Spider.

    Aug 2, 2006 4:27:06 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    The styling of the 430 was done to enhance the look of the Spider as opposed to the coupe. Ferrari got it right as evidenced by the demand for the Spider.

    The 360 Spider came out almost a year after the 360 because the car was designed to be a coupe and issues needed to be resolved in making it a Spider.

    That did not happen with the 430 Spider.

    Aug 2, 2006 4:34:47 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The styling of the 430 was done to enhance the look of the Spider as opposed to the coupe. Ferrari got it right as evidenced by the demand for the Spider.

    The 360 Spider came out almost a year after the 360 because the car was designed to be a coupe and issues needed to be resolved in making it a Spider.

    That did not happen with the 430 Spider.



    It did not happen because the 430 Spider is exactly the same as the 360 Spider, so no need for a delay here.

    I have to disagree here totally: the 360 was designed as a Berlinetta AND a Spider from the very beginning. The introduction was delayed out of marketing reasons.
    The mechanics of the 430 Spider, the hood, the windblocker, everything is taken directly from the 360. So no need for Ferrari here to hold the Spider back. Moreover the 430 is such a big improvement over the 360, that even a Spider with stronger demand based on the 360 would have been the wrong decision, hence the early introduction of the 430 Spider.

    Aug 2, 2006 10:41:38 PM

    Porky Tokyo
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The styling of the 430 was done to enhance the look of the Spider as opposed to the coupe. Ferrari got it right as evidenced by the demand for the Spider.

    The 360 Spider came out almost a year after the 360 because the car was designed to be a coupe and issues needed to be resolved in making it a Spider.

    That did not happen with the 430 Spider.



    It did not happen because the 430 Spider is exactly the same as the 360 Spider, so no need for a delay here.

    I have to disagree here totally: the 360 was designed as a Berlinetta AND a Spider from the very beginning. The introduction was delayed out of marketing reasons.
    The mechanics of the 430 Spider, the hood, the windblocker, everything is taken directly from the 360. So no need for Ferrari here to hold the Spider back. Moreover the 430 is such a big improvement over the 360, that even a Spider with stronger demand based on the 360 would have been the wrong decision, hence the early introduction of the 430 Spider.



    At the end of the day - doesn't matter too much - Ferrari did a splendid job on the 430 - coupe or Spider. I would rather get the coupe with a 6 speed manual. The H gate has been a dream since I was a kid. It will happen one of there days.......Only problem is the wife can't stand the image of the Ferrari owners in Japan.....Lambo is her choice if its not P car... She will test drive the Gallardo next week too. If I can get a test drive of a 430 she maybe convinced.

    Aug 2, 2006 11:19:30 PM

    TopherV
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    Quote:
    nberry said:



    BTW, the 430 is a girls car. Last week while waiting at a light, a car with four one girls pulls along side and the one in the back behind the driver side say's to me "What a beautiful car. I would screw you in a second" Clearly they were having fun but the car does get noticed by women.



    Thats so awesome

    Aug 2, 2006 11:49:09 PM

    SrfCity
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concern

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Let me give you the skinny on the 430. No doubt it is a derivation from the 360. However, in making the design changes it was done with the Spider in mind because Ferrari learned that interest in the 360 Spider was much greater than the coupe.



    So please enlighten me about the differences between the 430 Spider and the 360 Spider.



    I think he heard this somewhere and doesn't know the real answer. What specifically was designed first in the spider that lead to the coupe? If both a coupe and spider are part of a model then it makes sense that the design and engineering accomodate both. I'll lay odds that countless hours of wind tunnel testing were performed on the coupe first

    Aug 3, 2006 1:25:42 AM

    DavidSF
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Interesting conclusion of the article in C&D concerning the

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    Gary(SF) said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Ferrari succeeded in creating one of the greatest mid-engined sports cars ever made, by developing the F430 out of the (relatively) disappointing 360 Modena. The F430 surely is as much (if not more) a masterpiece, as Porsche claims for their new Turbo. And if Ferrari continues on its way and will introduce all these goodies now seen at the 599 in the 430 successor, combined with an all new, even more exciting shape than the F430 - which is basically "only" a beefed up version of the original 360 design in that respect - I can't wait for 2009.



    I can't agree with your 360 assessment. Until I bought the 430, the 360 was, by a large margin, the best, most entertaining, most satisfying car I ever owned, and I have owned perhaps a dozen Porsches. I would still pick it over any Porsche except the CGT. Absolutely nothing disappointing about that car at all.

    Gary



    There's always something better isn't there? It's true, there are people out there that consider the F360 a boring car.

    David



    I didn't say the 360 is boring, I said it is disappointing. And this only, if you compare it to its predecessor, the F355.

    The 355 had it all: looks, sound, speed etc. For me the 355 is one of the greatest designs of a modern Ferrari. Compared to it the 360 looks relatively bland. Also the sound of the 355's stock exhaust is marvelous, the 360 is a major let down in this respect (for me the reason, why the 430 sounds so fabulous). And if you compare the data for acceleration and top speed you won't find much difference between the 355 and the 360.
    Of course the latter is the more modern car by far, chassis stability is worlds apart, but to me the 355 had more soul. That's why I said I find the 360 relatively disappointing. Relatively means, if you compare it to the 355, if you don't the 360 surely is a nice car.



    I know you didn't say the 360 was boring. However I'm sure there are some people out there that would say the 360 is boring. Maybe we should take a poll of some Saleen S7 turbo, Lamorghini Murcielago, Carrera GT, etc.. owners?

    I do agree the 360, even the 430, is a disappointment compared to the 355. The looks, especially the nose/front bumper, has gotten worse. I think the clear engine cover, and "Godzilla" vents along the sides of the clear engine cover on the 360CS and 430 look ridiculous. 355 had a nice clean simple look. No gimmicks. Also agree 355 has more soul.

    David
     
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