Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Jul 25, 2006 7:10:49 PM

    OCEAN
    Expert
    OCEAN
    Loc: US
    Posts: 1334, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 28, 2004

    7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    That's what it sounds like, according to AutoWeek.

    Porsche has filed paperwork indicating that a seven-speed DSG is on the way. The company had apparently hoped to have it ready for the launch of the 997 Turbo, but it didn't work out. Hence, Tiptronic S remains the optional transmission across the board for the coming model year. When the DSG arrives, expect to see it made available on the full line, including the planned Bugatti-hunting GT1.

    Jul 25, 2006 8:06:31 PM

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Germany
    Posts: 12680, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    That's what it sounds like, according to AutoWeek.

    Porsche has filed paperwork indicating that a seven-speed DSG is on the way. The company had apparently hoped to have it ready for the launch of the 997 Turbo, but it didn't work out. Hence, Tiptronic S remains the optional transmission across the board for the coming model year. When the DSG arrives, expect to see it made available on the full line, including the planned Bugatti-hunting GT1.




    So it seems that the 7-speed-DSG really will replace the 5-speed-Tiptronic S

    Jul 25, 2006 8:11:43 PM

    trip
    Expert
    trip
    Loc: Bay Area California , United States
    Posts: 1691, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    I can't really see any point in keeping the 5 speed tip since the DSG will be superior in every way. Purists will still opt for the manual.

    Jul 25, 2006 8:57:12 PM

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Germany
    Posts: 12680, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: trip

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    trip said:
    I can't really see any point in keeping the 5 speed tip since the DSG will be superior in every way. Purists will still opt for the manual.



    These are exactly my thoughts. But this is really bad news for Tiptronic S customers...

    Jul 25, 2006 9:01:17 PM

    electrao
    Junior
    electrao
    Loc: Lisbon , Portugal
    Posts: 120, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 10, 2005
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    still depends when porsche will actually put it in production!! maybe only with the 998!
    If they do it with 997 facelift then well there will be some, and rightfully so, pissed costumers !!

    Jul 25, 2006 10:30:41 PM

    Oxonian
    Pilot
    Oxonian
    Loc: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
    Posts: 488, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 28, 2005
    Reply to: electrao

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    I suspect that a 997 TT with DSG and PSE will be something really special

    Jul 25, 2006 10:43:04 PM

    TopherV
    Veteran
    TopherV
    Loc: Orange County, Southern California
    Posts: 1121, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 29, 2003
    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    That's what it sounds like, according to AutoWeek.

    Porsche has filed paperwork indicating that a seven-speed DSG is on the way. The company had apparently hoped to have it ready for the launch of the 997 Turbo, but it didn't work out. Hence, Tiptronic S remains the optional transmission across the board for the coming model year. When the DSG arrives, expect to see it made available on the full line, including the planned Bugatti-hunting GT1.




    Seven is an interesting number dont ya think?

    Performance/Fuel saving wise.

    Jul 25, 2006 11:08:54 PM

    amazon
    Rennteam Pro
    amazon
    Loc: Belgium , Belgium
    Posts: 2110, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 5, 2004
    Reply to: TopherV

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    That's new...but maybe just BS.

    I'd wait for some sort of confirmation before jumping to any conclusion. Seven gears sound silly & mercedes-ish to me.

    Jul 26, 2006 3:03:57 AM

    Modrocket_stereo
    Veteran
    Modrocket_stereo
    Loc: Chicago
    Posts: 1178, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 8, 2003
    Reply to: amazon

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Talk about a chain of events. First off, spy shots of likely exterior changes of the 911 as well as new standard and optional equipment. Secondly the standard engine may be the 3.8 liter engine prompting the end of the 911 Carrera S. Third, the RSR will debut at the 24 Hour at Spa mounted with a 3.8 liter race engine further provoking us come to a consensus that all next generation Porsche 911 super variants like the GT3 will use the same engine. Fourth, rumor of a GT1 supercar to be faster than the Veyron. Fifth, the Panamera will live in the NASCAR grid. And now, a 7-speed DSG? What next? Seriously man, what next?

    Jul 26, 2006 4:12:58 AM

    MMD
    Rennteam VIP
    MMD
    Loc: usa
    Posts: 9652, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 16, 2004
    Reply to: Modrocket_stereo

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    That's great news! Uh oh..., it just made the wait for some guys (me too?) even longer.

    Jul 26, 2006 4:46:54 AM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12586, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: amazon

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    amazon said:
    That's new...but maybe just BS.

    I'd wait for some sort of confirmation before jumping to any conclusion. Seven gears sound silly & mercedes-ish to me.


    Seven gears would be great for the GT3, but it may be a bit excessive for the Turbo. When I think of 7 gears, I don't think of Mercedes, I think of Formula One

    Jul 26, 2006 5:08:21 AM

    trip
    Expert
    trip
    Loc: Bay Area California , United States
    Posts: 1691, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    7 gears may actually hurt the performance of the turbo because of the boost pressure losses during shifts. I wonder if they will be able to keep boost pressure up during shifts like with tiptronic tranny.

    Jul 26, 2006 5:36:46 AM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: trip

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Porsches 7 gear transmission is not alone.

    Mercedes has it, the coming Lexus flagship has it and even
    GM took out patents on 7spd gear boxes of two types:
    one for front engine RWD cars and the other for Front engine/RWD/rear transaxle cars - the Corvette.

    Jul 26, 2006 6:06:34 AM

    cookie monster
    Senior
    cookie monster
    Loc: US , United States
    Posts: 564, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 8, 2005
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Porsches 7 gear transmission is not alone.

    Mercedes has it, the coming Lexus flagship has it and even
    GM took out patents on 7spd gear boxes of two types:
    one for front engine RWD cars and the other for Front engine/RWD/rear transaxle cars - the Corvette.



    Jimflat6, how does this all tie in with PAG's owning 20%+ shares of VW and in turn AUDI? Would we suspect a transplant of a VW's DSG on the Porsches like VW's Toureg's V6 on the Cayenne? Plus I really can't figure out all the jargons and mechanics in the working of a F1 Ferrari type Gearbox and Lymbo's E Gear (Audi based) and Audi's S Tronic and VW's DSG and Tiptronic S. Apparently Tip has no clutch hence more reliable and more durable in start stop traffic? How do they all work?

    Jul 26, 2006 6:59:40 AM

    Hurst
    Veteran
    Hurst
    Loc: Potomac, MD
    Posts: 1255, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 15, 2005
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    amazon said:
    That's new...but maybe just BS.

    I'd wait for some sort of confirmation before jumping to any conclusion. Seven gears sound silly & mercedes-ish to me.


    Seven gears would be great for the GT3, but it may be a bit excessive for the Turbo. When I think of 7 gears, I don't think of Mercedes, I think of Formula One



    It's not like Mercedes is in F1

    But I agree completely

    Jul 26, 2006 7:50:12 AM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    @PT The Lambo, Ferrari and the Porsche PDK are basically manual transmissions with solenoids and hydraulic actuators that move the gears.

    Tiptronics are conventional automatic transmissions.

    I will leave the DSG for a VW/Audi guy to explain.

    I dont know how it will all tie in product line wise but new transmissions are expensive investments. Ford and GM combined resources to design and make their new 6spd automatic.

    Jul 26, 2006 1:36:40 PM

    Ferdie
    Rennteam VIP
    Ferdie
    Loc: Europe , Germany
    Posts: 8234, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 2, 2004
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    The PDK is the SAME system as the DSG on Audi/VW models! Since there is virtually no lag during shifts it works as good as an automatic tranny - just more efficient and direct.

    I can truly imagine that this technology is very challenging to use on the Turbo, that much horsepower and especially torque has to be digested by the clutch and gears.

    Jul 26, 2006 1:36:55 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12586, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    It's not like Mercedes is in F1


    Well, they are in F1 to the extent that they pay a British firm (Ilmore) to build engines and they sign the checks and put their name on the cars

    Jul 26, 2006 2:01:22 PM

    Ludikrisspeed
    Co-Pilot
    Ludikrisspeed
    Loc: Florida, USA
    Posts: 246, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    All you have to do is drive the Audi DSG in the A3 or TT to realize how incredible this tranni is. Great for day to day driving, and killer on the track. So far no reliability issues have surfaced.

    Jul 26, 2006 3:00:30 PM

    iia
    Pilot
    iia
    Loc: Canada
    Posts: 342, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 24, 2004
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    I will leave the DSG for a VW/Audi guy to explain.



    DSG/PDK is kind of 2 manual transmissions that one links to 1-3-5 and another links to 2-4-6.
    Main advantages: extermely fast shift time and smooth.
    Main disadvantage: heavy and more complicate.

    Jul 26, 2006 3:30:34 PM

    Pink Panther
    Pilot
    Pink Panther
    Loc: UK , United Kingdom
    Posts: 363, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 4, 2005
    Reply to: iia

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Main disadvantage on the audi DSG is a long wait on kickdown because the wrong gear is pre-selected. BMW SMG is a rawer experience more suitable for sports driving. I bet Ferrari wont be developing a DSG equivalent.

    Jul 26, 2006 10:56:53 PM

    Hurst
    Veteran
    Hurst
    Loc: Potomac, MD
    Posts: 1255, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 15, 2005
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    It's not like Mercedes is in F1


    Well, they are in F1 to the extent that they pay a British firm (Ilmore) to build engines and they sign the checks and put their name on the cars



    What would you expect? It's the Eccelstone way

    Jul 26, 2006 11:25:50 PM

    devo
    Veteran
    devo
    Loc: NY , United States
    Posts: 1107, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2006
    Reply to: Modrocket_stereo

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    stereo said:
    Talk about a chain of events. First off, spy shots of likely exterior changes of the 911 as well as new standard and optional equipment. Secondly the standard engine may be the 3.8 liter engine prompting the end of the 911 Carrera S. Third, the RSR will debut at the 24 Hour at Spa mounted with a 3.8 liter race engine further provoking us come to a consensus that all next generation Porsche 911 super variants like the GT3 will use the same engine. Fourth, rumor of a GT1 supercar to be faster than the Veyron. Fifth, the Panamera will live in the NASCAR grid. And now, a 7-speed DSG? What next? Seriously man, what next?



    I'd be surprised if the "S" vanished. DSG/PDK could very well be a long wait.

    Jul 27, 2006 12:10:06 AM

    Glenn7500
    Newbie
    Glenn7500
    Loc: LA
    Posts: 4, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 25, 2004
    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Click on
    Inside Line

    Jul 27, 2006 1:23:35 AM

    PyroKerry
    Newbie
    PyroKerry
    Loc: Illinois
    Posts: 25, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 29, 2006
    Reply to: Glenn7500

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    If they're right about its introduction at the Frankfurt Auto Show, that would be September, 2007. So no sooner than the 2008 model year.

    Jul 27, 2006 2:51:25 AM

    zeroHero
    Junior
    zeroHero
    Loc: FL
    Posts: 143, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 5, 2006
    Reply to: PyroKerry

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    I'm hoping we'll see the introduction of it with the 997gt2...I couldn't think of anything sweeter. Deposits on gt2's anyone?

    Jul 27, 2006 4:21:28 AM

    cookie monster
    Senior
    cookie monster
    Loc: US , United States
    Posts: 564, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 8, 2005
    Reply to: zeroHero

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Didn't someone mention about the a drawback of the DSG system as being more applicable towards smaller power cars like VW Golf and A3? That it will be a challenge to make it work smoothly on da TURBO? Now I have totally a reason to wait for the DSG version of 997 TT. However, I'd imagine it would be a real bummer for those who got the 997TT in Tiptronic S if 2008 comes with DSG.

    I suspect that PAG will parallel run the system. Considering the fact that Porsche knows how to market its product (look at the Cayman S V Boxster Coupe V Cayman Cabrio deal with the 2007 Boxster being fitted with the exact same engine still selling less than Cayman S...), I suspect that the standard is the base price (3.9s) with tiptronic s (3.7s) as an option with the current pricing and a DSG system (maybe shave another 0.2 to make it 3.5) as an option that will be SIGNIFICANTLY priced higher to cash in on this technology. I bet plenty will pay for the 0.2 s plus shift paddles. It will be just like the PCCB, not much use really on a daily basis but with the yellow calipers as show pieces to talk about.

    On the other hand, I have another view and wondering what you guys would think. If it is indeed true that the DSG works better on cars with lower HPs generating less torque and peak torque, the DSG would be rolled out this time from the GROUND UP meaning first the Boxster/Cayman line and upwards. It would also make sense to not upset the current 997tt tip s owners at the same time using the lower priced models as market testers.

    The SLK 7-G tronic (which I owned in 2005) and CLS 7-G tronic had loads of problem as Mercedes first 7 speed Gearbox and both cars JERKED a lot even under fully auto tranny mode and it certainly happened to me and many CLS owners back then. Hence, Porsche wouldn't wanna risk this DSG system on the premium priced models. Plus with the 996 eggdrop case, Porsche knows what it means when we say "if it ain't broken why fix it" recipe. Although Clarkson did mention that Porsche had the laziest designers, he probably doesn't realize that it pays off to be lazy. This also leads me to believe that a V8 911 or the demise of the 911 after the rollout of the CAYMAN is pretty much bogus.

    Jul 27, 2006 10:55:22 AM

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Germany
    Posts: 12680, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: Pink Panther

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    Pink Panther said:
    I bet Ferrari wont be developing a DSG equivalent.



    Er, I think they are already developing it.

    Jul 27, 2006 11:16:53 AM

    Nick_Athens Offline
    Senior
    Nick_Athens
    Loc: Greece , Greece
    Posts: 710, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 23, 2004
    Reply to: iia

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    If Porsche has ready the new PDK gearbox i believe that it is going to lanch it on 997 GT2. (it is going to be out 2007 middle) if it doesnt, NOONE Will buy a GT2 for sure...

    Also if people learns that it will be out 2007-08 who is going to buy now or with the 7months+ waiting list a new Turbo Tiptronic and not wait...?!

    Jul 27, 2006 11:22:06 AM

    dreamcar
    Rennteam VIP
    dreamcar
    Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom
    Posts: 8797, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 19, 2004
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: 7-Speed DSG for Porsche !

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:

    I will leave the DSG for a VW/Audi guy to explain.




    If you've never tried DSG, go take the latest Golf GTI out. It is incredibly brilliant. DSG description lifted from the Audi website :-

    "The revolutionary direct shift gearbox (DSG) combines the advantages of a conventional six-speed manual-shift gearbox with the qualities possessed by a modern automatic transmission. The driver enjoys immense agility and driving pleasure with, at the same time, smooth, dynamic acceleration with no interruption to the power flow.
    The technical basis of the direct shift gearbox (DSG) is a double clutch. This consists of two wet plate-type clutches with hydraulically regulated contact pressure. One of the two clutches engages the odd-numbered, the other the even-numbered gears. This principle enables gear shifts to be made without interrupting the power flow and keeps the shift times extremely short. While the first clutch is transmitting the power, the second clutch is ready to engage the next gear, which is preselected. When the driver makes the gear shift, the first clutch is released and the second engages, so that the gear shift takes place in a fraction of a second.
    The driver can operate the DSG manually or allow changes to take place automatically. In the automatic mode there is a choice between the well-balanced, comfortable standard shift settings and a program with greater sports emphasis. Manual shifts are made either at the gear lever or at shift paddles behind the steering wheel".

    DSG 1st Gear
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/16/24 3:13 PM
    watt     		756004 1797
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		431891 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM     		258998 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48     		256075 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA     		80020 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut     		5268 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 869126 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		803444 3868
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry     		384716 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 4/16/24 7:02 PM
    Enmanuel     		382926 1447
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut     		366037 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		364576 797
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile     		286527 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/11/24 12:32 PM
    Ferdie     		284740 668
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 258371 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		235963 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		223719 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		219051 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		166181 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		138206 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA     		115102 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM     		107189 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi     		99169 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		83470 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame     		74867 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		52921 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM     		24589 237
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy     		20900 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie     		19151 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997     		16420 120
    128 items found, displaying 1 to 30.