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    Jun 1, 2006 3:02:47 PM

    TEE
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    PCCB's or not?

    To start with a quote by RC: "the optional PCCB brake, what can I say...NO fading, very precise brake feel, definetely a MUST HAVE option. Ordering a 997 GT3 without PCCB is like getting strawberry icecream without whipped cream."

    So now that there is increasing experience what do people think about the breaks. I intend to do quite a bit of track driving so still a bit concerned that it will be similar experience with regard to durability as on the last generations.

    Any views?

    Jun 1, 2006 3:22:44 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: TEE

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    It will be very expensive for track work. Rotors are still incredibly expensive to replace and are easily damaged if you ever land in a gravel trap...

    Jun 1, 2006 4:02:43 PM

    jerrygee
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    After driving a 997S with PCCB's around a track I included them in my ordered 2007 997S. The difference in performance was very apparent and the brake pedal feel and feedback was phenomenal. The only reason I can see not to order them is if money is an issue.

    Jun 1, 2006 4:13:37 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: jerrygee

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    No way I'm ordering the tubo cab without them. Most important option for me bar none. On a standard 997 I can see not ordering them but on a GT3 or turbo they're a must.

    If you can afford it & have the chance to basically get the brakes from the Carrera GT, not to is crazy.

    Jun 1, 2006 4:26:00 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    I agree that they would be my choice too, if price was no concern...

    Jun 1, 2006 4:30:16 PM

    adelaide
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    do they wear faster or the same as the regular brakes?
    will you have to replace the rotors sooner or at the same period as the regular rotors (given the same usage)?

    Jun 1, 2006 5:10:45 PM

    Dan L
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    Reply to: adelaide

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Regular brakes hardly wear. PCCBs wear even less.

    Dan

    Jun 1, 2006 5:22:03 PM

    bstew
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    Reply to: Dan L

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    If you can swing the money go for it. You will always wonder what if, if you pass on them.

    Jun 1, 2006 5:26:09 PM

    IKE JR
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Why the rotors of PCCB are easily damaged? Some friends said PCCB is good for road, but for the track isnt a good idea because the rotors is to expensive and need to be replaced always but WHY? What happen with them? How many KM or Miles a brake like this can be used (using only 3-4times a year in track -95% in road)?

    Jun 1, 2006 5:36:26 PM

    Dan L
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    Reply to: IKE JR

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    I suspect the majority of PCCB detractors are citing their personal experiences with the first generation of PCCBs. They were troublesome and had a terrible lifespan. Porsche has been working with the brake vendors to resolve these problems, turning the PCCBs around entirely. Keep in mind that a lot of changes have gone into those improvements.

    Rotors made of siliconized carbon fiber are more brittle than cast iron rotors, a fundamental issue of materials. That's why the wheels and installed and deinstalled using a bolt alignment tool or two to make sure you don't bump the rotors in error as you are installing a wheel. Once the wheels are on these they are quite well protected.

    When you consider the elimination of corrosion, the beefing up of the wheel bearings, the 50% lighter composite rotors, and the vastly improved performance, it makes for quite an impressive and convincing package.

    I ordered them for my 997S Cab.

    Dan

    Jun 1, 2006 5:36:50 PM

    TEE
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    Reply to: IKE JR

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    I am being told the last a season in the Porsche Cup and I am sure that is worse than 20 trackdays.

    Jun 1, 2006 6:12:09 PM

    TrojanHorse
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    Reply to: TEE

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Quote:
    TEE1 said:
    I am being told the last a season in the Porsche Cup and I am sure that is worse than 20 trackdays.



    I've heard the same thing--they are now expected to last a season.

    I've never considered PCCBs on a Porsche before but on the new GT3, I agree with RC, its a must have option. I'll be ordering them on mine.

    Jun 1, 2006 6:48:01 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: TEE

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Quote:
    TEE1 said:
    I am being told the last a season in the Porsche Cup and I am sure that is worse than 20 trackdays.


    I had heard that it takes a MINIMUM of two sets of rotors for the season and more for some drivers (especially if you drive into a gravel trap).

    Jun 1, 2006 6:51:17 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: IKE JR

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Quote:
    IKE JR said:
    Why the rotors of PCCB are easily damaged? Some friends said PCCB is good for road, but for the track isnt a good idea because the rotors is to expensive and need to be replaced always but WHY? What happen with them? How many KM or Miles a brake like this can be used (using only 3-4times a year in track -95% in road)?


    Driving on a track is nothing at all like driving on the road. If you drive fast on a track that is difficult on brakes (great deal of variation among tracks) with sticky track tires, you intruce WAY more heat into the brakes than is possible even on the most demanding street. Ask the 996 GT3 guys how long their brakes last. They have huge 6-piston brakes and massive steel rotors and they replace rotors every few weekends (for the folks that are really fast on tough tracks).

    Jun 1, 2006 8:05:22 PM

    Targa Tim
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Went to a PCA track few weeks ago in my 997S with PCCB. The brake is just amazing, no fading at all at all times. It was a hot dry day at over 30 degree celcius. At the end of the day, more than a few cars (including 996TT) had quitted as they have no brakes. My PCCB performs exactly the same at the end of the day as it was first thing in the morning. If money is not an issue, you have to go for PCCB.

    Jun 1, 2006 8:23:35 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: Targa Tim

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Thanks for that encouraging report. The track reports are much more positive with the MkII version of PCCB, as found on the 997. That's a beautiful car you have - love the Cobalt!

    Jun 8, 2006 6:25:12 PM

    TEE
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    I must admit I am still on the fence on these. Only because I intend to track the car and would hate to replace them. But agree, would always hate the idea of not getting them if they turn out to be great.

    I was further told you need to break them in carefully. I.e. first couple of 1000kms you should avoid hard breaking.

    Jun 11, 2006 6:34:11 AM

    Jay Offline
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    Reply to: TEE

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    A while back on a PWRS I said this about the PCCBs:

    "PCCB: 2 track cars had these on. Both cars only have several thousand k's on them yet the PCCB's sounded dreadful (Cayman and Carrera). It was like they had sand grinding in them. To save ?20kg of un-sprung weight & with that noise and cost - no thanks!"

    Now I am confused too. The sound was so bad. (Track was wet). Can anyone provide an answer? I wonder if Porsche is 'guaranteeing' these things this time around to avoid any 'militant' action?

    Jun 11, 2006 9:24:25 AM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: Jay

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Quote:
    Jay said:
    A while back on a PWRS I said this about the PCCBs:

    "PCCB: 2 track cars had these on. Both cars only have several thousand k's on them yet the PCCB's sounded dreadful (Cayman and Carrera). It was like they had sand grinding in them. To save ?20kg of un-sprung weight & with that noise and cost - no thanks!"

    Now I am confused too. The sound was so bad. (Track was wet). Can anyone provide an answer? I wonder if Porsche is 'guaranteeing' these things this time around to avoid any 'militant' action?



    Absolutely no sound with my PCCB's.

    Jun 11, 2006 12:52:32 PM

    JFT
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    When even some Porsche dealers who track their cars warn you about PCCB then you've got to remain doubtful...

    Jun 11, 2006 11:32:26 PM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: JFT

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    The standard brakes are incredible. For the cost, the PCCB's are not worth it IMO, unless you have money to burn.

    I don't think anybody doubts how great the 2nd gen PCCB's are, but they are bloody expensive, so this eally boils down to a question of how much money you have to burn.

    Jul 24, 2006 1:43:29 PM

    fantasma
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    How about PCCB when buying a second hand 997?

    The consensus about PCCB on new cars is that they are better but that they are only worthwhile if money is not an issue. But: if you buy a used 997 with PCCB you only pay a relatively small premium compared to a car without PCCB.

    Any new reports on how PCCB II work on the track?

    /fantasma

    Jul 24, 2006 2:05:26 PM

    360bhp
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    Reply to: TEE

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Sure they are very good the latest version but NOT ordering them for my 997 GT3 as most of my driving will be on road and to be frank it's a lot of cash for brakes (which in standard form are pretty good already for 90% of the time) pure economics here.

    Jul 24, 2006 4:30:26 PM

    omeko3
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    Reply to: Dan L

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    do it, i wish i did!

    Jul 24, 2006 4:36:46 PM

    Avantgarde
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    Reply to: fantasma

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Quote:
    fantasma said:
    Any new reports on how PCCB II work on the track?



    I have taken mine on the track and it is far more than incredible. No hint of brake fade, brake feel felt consistently through the entire session, provided more confidence for late braking even after repeated 'brake stomps' from 230-80km/h. Car apparently handles better from the less unsprung weight.

    GO FOR IT

    Jul 25, 2006 5:05:33 PM

    madadd
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    Reply to: TEE

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    I have now been on 2 different Porsche UK training days, and have had chance to ask three different people the question.

    In my time of driving PCCB I felt very little difference. The pedal felt harder but performance seemed pretty much unchanged (fade was not relevant in what we were doing).

    Each and every one of the three had the same opinion that PCCB's make very little difference in normal driving. And short of pedal feel you would find it hard to spot the difference. They all agreed that (excluding fade) in stopping terms there is really nothing in it.

    As for the weight. Not one of them could really notice the difference that the weight saving made.

    Seems a lot of money to save a bit of brake dust. And note .. these people are Porsche trained, employed and very experienced in 911's. Most of them with motorsport backgrounds.

    If they can't feel it. What chance do I have!

    Cheers,

    ...Add

    Jul 25, 2006 5:23:45 PM

    Joost
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    Reply to: madadd

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    And how about resalve value? I mean, lots of people are buying cars in "dull" colors because they sell better afterwards... is it so that PCCB equipped cars are more popular in the secondhand market than nonPCCB equipped?
    -Joost-

    Jul 25, 2006 6:08:02 PM

    devo
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    Reply to: Joost

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    The second buyer may wish for a PCCB equipped car, but that's only because the original buyer took the hit. I would imagine, like most options, PCCBs would return about 20-30% on you initial investment.

    Jul 25, 2006 10:34:55 PM

    AUM
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    Reply to: madadd

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Quote:
    madadd said:
    I have now been on 2 different Porsche UK training days, and have had chance to ask three different people the question.

    In my time of driving PCCB I felt very little difference. The pedal felt harder but performance seemed pretty much unchanged (fade was not relevant in what we were doing).

    Each and every one of the three had the same opinion that PCCB's make very little difference in normal driving. And short of pedal feel you would find it hard to spot the difference. They all agreed that (excluding fade) in stopping terms there is really nothing in it.

    As for the weight. Not one of them could really notice the difference that the weight saving made.

    Seems a lot of money to save a bit of brake dust. And note .. these people are Porsche trained, employed and very experienced in 911's. Most of them with motorsport backgrounds.

    If they can't feel it. What chance do I have!

    Cheers,

    ...Add



    If you track the car, fade is THE issue and PCCB is essential.I change iron front rotors every ten weeks because of heat damage that would not effect PCCB rotors. My next car will have yellow brakes.

    Jul 26, 2006 1:12:18 AM

    Avantgarde
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    Reply to: AUM

    Re: PCCB's or not?

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    If you track the car, fade is THE issue and PCCB is essential.I change iron front rotors every ten weeks because of heat damage that would not effect PCCB rotors. My next car will have yellow brakes.



    All my future cars must come equipped with Ceramic Brakes .....it's so reassuring.
     
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