Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear - Page1

Jul 5, 2006 8:56:08 PM

dstrimbu: Junior; Loc: Chicago Area, IL, USA; Posts: 79, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 20, 2006; Reply to: Jim48

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

In the manual, Porsche states that N-rated tires MUST be used. That being said, it's only a performance and safety issue, so do what you will...

15k would be great tire wear on a P-car. My PS2s won't last 10k - the fronts maybe, but the rears? Hah!

Tire Rack loves P-cars,

-don

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Jul 6, 2006 12:40:16 AM

gota911: Newbie; Loc: NC; Posts: 29, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: 911Fanatic

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
911Fanatic said:
WR, that was the case with mine as well. Driver side is worse than passenger...can only assume its because I'm the only one in the car most of the time???

I went through 2 1/2 sets (long story for another time) of Pirelli P-Zeros rear tires in 23,000 miles. I recently switched to Bridgestone RE750 tires. The RE750's are NOT "N" rated but have a tread wear rating of 340 versus P-Zero's rating of 220. I have 3,000 miles on the RE750's and they show no noticeable wear.

The ride of the RE750's is harsher than the P-Zero's, most notably over highway expansion joints, but they are quieter than the P-Zeros. The harsher ride may be due to the harder rubber compound.
Tim

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Jul 6, 2006 2:03:18 AM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: br d

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
br d said:
I really don't understand this. My car had P-Zero's on when I collected it and they lasted 5000 miles! I drive spiritedly but never stupidly, never break grip or slide or jolt the car or anything. The P-Zero's didn't look too bad but all the grip was gone, I just couldn't trust the car on even a half serious bend and driving in the wet was a nightmare.

I've gone to Pilot Sport's now. When I had them fitted I was told that the geometery was "a little bit out, but nothing serious" so I don't think that's the reason the Zero's wore out so quickly
I think if you are getting 10 - 12k from your tyres you're very lucky!

br d

Guys, I'm replying to br d because he's also from the UK (similar driving conditions).

I also drive spiritedly but not stupidly. I'm on PS2's and have 15K on the clock. My tyres are all in good shape - what am I doing wrong/right??

I know that road surface, climate and driving style all make a huge difference but... why the hell am I getting such good results.??

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Jul 6, 2006 3:11:45 AM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: John H

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
John H said:
Quote:
br d said:
I really don't understand this. My car had P-Zero's on when I collected it and they lasted 5000 miles! I drive spiritedly but never stupidly, never break grip or slide or jolt the car or anything. The P-Zero's didn't look too bad but all the grip was gone, I just couldn't trust the car on even a half serious bend and driving in the wet was a nightmare.

I've gone to Pilot Sport's now. When I had them fitted I was told that the geometery was "a little bit out, but nothing serious" so I don't think that's the reason the Zero's wore out so quickly
I think if you are getting 10 - 12k from your tyres you're very lucky!

br d

Guys, I'm replying to br d because he's also from the UK (similar driving conditions).

I also drive spiritedly but not stupidly. I'm on PS2's and have 15K on the clock. My tyres are all in good shape - what am I doing wrong/right??

I know that road surface, climate and driving style all make a huge difference but... why the hell am I getting such good results.??

15k miles or km? I have 10k km (6000 miles) and my tyres are 70% gone. I don't drive that hard either (in my opinion) as I do my hard driving on the track (which I haven't done in this car). If your mileage is mainly interstate or highway driving, you will find that the wear rate is a lot lower compared to if you are driving in start stop London traffic.

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Jul 6, 2006 8:02:38 AM

WR: Senior; Loc: Taipei , Taiwan; Posts: 637, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 26, 2005; Reply to: WAY

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

here is a photo so my driver side rear, i try to last it out...

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Jul 6, 2006 8:07:13 AM

WR: Senior; Loc: Taipei , Taiwan; Posts: 637, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 26, 2005; Reply to: WR

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

oh, my other question to you all...
under really heavy rain, in PS2, I find when I drive over slightly evenly distributed surface, my steering get really light, kind of hydro-planing (more than my comfort zone, it is scary at times). I know PS2 is not as good as P-Zero's or Conti's for wet. Others have experience the same with PS2's on wet surface?

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Jul 6, 2006 10:59:57 AM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: WAY

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
WAY said:
Quote:
John H said:
Quote:
br d said:
I really don't understand this. My car had P-Zero's on when I collected it and they lasted 5000 miles! I drive spiritedly but never stupidly, never break grip or slide or jolt the car or anything. The P-Zero's didn't look too bad but all the grip was gone, I just couldn't trust the car on even a half serious bend and driving in the wet was a nightmare.

I've gone to Pilot Sport's now. When I had them fitted I was told that the geometery was "a little bit out, but nothing serious" so I don't think that's the reason the Zero's wore out so quickly
I think if you are getting 10 - 12k from your tyres you're very lucky!

br d

Guys, I'm replying to br d because he's also from the UK (similar driving conditions).

I also drive spiritedly but not stupidly. I'm on PS2's and have 15K on the clock. My tyres are all in good shape - what am I doing wrong/right??

I know that road surface, climate and driving style all make a huge difference but... why the hell am I getting such good results.??

15k miles or km? I have 10k km (6000 miles) and my tyres are 70% gone. I don't drive that hard either (in my opinion) as I do my hard driving on the track (which I haven't done in this car). If your mileage is mainly interstate or highway driving, you will find that the wear rate is a lot lower compared to if you are driving in start stop London traffic.

I'm talking 15,000 miles here, and still in good shape!

Most of my trips are comparatively short with only about 20% on motorways.

My wear seems way better than most posts here seem to suggest. Still want to know what I'm doing right/wrong?

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Jul 6, 2006 2:57:24 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: John H

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
My wear seems way better than most posts here seem to suggest. Still want to know what I'm doing right/wrong?

Dude, we all want to know what you are doing right!

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Jul 7, 2006 1:43:12 AM

911Fanatic: Co-Pilot; Loc: Alpharetta, Georgia; Posts: 176, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 26, 2005; Reply to: John H

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

John H, my guess is that the camber/toe adjustment on your rear tires might be set to a less agressive setting than the rest of us. I'm getting my rear tires replaced tomorrow with an alignment check, i'll let everyone know the outcome. BTW my tires looked just like WR's picture above.

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Jul 7, 2006 2:13:50 AM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: WR

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
WR said:
here is a photo so my driver side rear, i try to last it out...

That wear is insane and unacceptable! I don't buy the statement that that wear is normal...can't be. My tires were evenly worn and I don't drive like a girl by any means. I often kick the rear out (psm off) and keep full power on just for fun...that's why rears lasted half the life of the fronts. If it is normal and if Porsche has these N rated tires designed specifically for the 911 they ought to either beef-up the inside tread or make the PASM button increase neg rear camber from a more neutral street setting.

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Jul 7, 2006 2:53:00 PM

911Fanatic: Co-Pilot; Loc: Alpharetta, Georgia; Posts: 176, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 26, 2005; Reply to: 911Fanatic

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

All, new Michelin PS2 (N1) tires installed on the rear this morning. Interestingly I found out the rear camber was out of spec. Normal range should be -0.8 to -1.3. Driver side was -1.6, passenger was -1.8. Everything else looked OK. This explains the very unusual wear pattern on the inside of the tire. I had them adjust the camber and toe to a less aggressive setting -0.9 (still within Porsche specs) so I should see more even wear. I've attached the detailed alignment report below for those who are interested.

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Jul 7, 2006 3:25:31 PM

Ente: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 781, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 24, 2005; Reply to: connoisseur

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
connoisseur said:
If you are unhappy about the durability of the Michelin tires, and the Pirelli's are worse yet. What is the experience of those who's vehicles came equipped with Continental?

On my 987S, I replaced the 19" Michelin set after 12k miles because of a slight bulge on one of the hind tires. Would have gotten an estimated 2-3k more out of them I guess. The tires saw one or two track events and a couple of spirited scenic drives as well as your average big city commuting.

Put 1.5 k on Contis so far and haven't really given them any work yet so can't say. They feel a tad on the skittish side sometimes. I'd definitely say I had more confidence in the corner grip of the Michelins, accelerating out of a bend, than the Contis but again can't really tell as I haven't exposed the new ones to any sort of stress.

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Jul 7, 2006 6:13:00 PM

percymon: Senior; Loc: Chester; Posts: 765, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 23, 2005; Reply to: Ente

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
Ente said:
On my 987S, I saw one or two track events and a couple of spirited scenic drives

987S just past 10k miles, and maybe they'll get me to 13k

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Jul 7, 2006 7:45:18 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: 911Fanatic

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
911Fanatic said:
All, new Michelin PS2 (N1) tires installed on the rear this morning. Interestingly I found out the rear camber was out of spec. Normal range should be -0.8 to -1.3. Driver side was -1.6, passenger was -1.8. Everything else looked OK. This explains the very unusual wear pattern on the inside of the tire. I had them adjust the camber and toe to a less aggressive setting -0.9 (still within Porsche specs) so I should see more even wear. I've attached the detailed alignment report below for those who are interested.

Your car must have been really "wayward" with those rear axle toe settings!

It's a shame you had new tires put on at the same time as the suspension was reset. It might have been a revelation to you to drive on those tires before and after the realignment.

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Jul 7, 2006 7:47:08 PM

omeko3: Junior; Loc: New York; Posts: 83, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2006; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

The sport cups on my m3 wore out in the rear after 2k miles

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Jul 7, 2006 8:14:40 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: omeko3

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
omeko3 said:
The sport cups on my m3 wore out in the rear after 2k miles

Sounds like you were having fun.

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Jul 7, 2006 9:03:51 PM

AJVIP: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1862, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Omeko, post the picture I took of your burnout

Show them why they wore off that quick

haha

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Jul 8, 2006 1:01:17 AM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: AJVIP

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

For all those with Boxsters, my own experience with my Boxster S and 997 tells me that the Boxsters are much easier on the tyre than the 911s...

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Jul 8, 2006 7:48:32 AM

WR: Senior; Loc: Taipei , Taiwan; Posts: 637, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 26, 2005; Reply to: WAY

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

I agree that original factory might not come with accurate alignment setting and that's why some of us have tires wear out much faster than we expected. Hind Boxster mid engine setup do help the rear tire wear less then 911

that's why some call 911 an out of date design.

But that is how I like it.

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Jul 24, 2006 4:40:42 PM

Ronnie: Co-Pilot; Loc: good old England (sometimes Hong Kong); Posts: 206, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 13, 2005; Reply to: WR

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

WR you are not alone.

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Jul 24, 2006 5:54:49 PM

zoltan: Co-Pilot; Loc: Athens , Greece; Posts: 275, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2004; Reply to: Ronnie

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

I had an almost freaking moment driving on wet with P-Zeros.
No grooves, totaly slick - i haven't noticed it before cause the outer side of the tire seemed OK

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Jul 24, 2006 6:09:59 PM

AndrewSS: Senior; Loc: columbus, OH; Posts: 587, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2004; Reply to: zoltan

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

My dads 997s corded the driver side shoulder on his PS2's after 1 trackday @ mid-ohio - these cars need more negative camber up front!

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Jul 24, 2006 7:21:19 PM

Paul S in TX: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 259, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2002; Reply to: bstew

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
bstew said:
Man it is just hard for me to believe I will have to buy a set of tires every year. Does anyone make a non N rated tire that gets good tread wear for non performance Porsche drivers like me?

I guess I've gotten immune to the issue--on my 01 996 TT I was buying at least two sets of tires a year. Fortunate to get 5,000 miles on a set but I was heavily tracking the car at the time. Then I went to R compounds for the track and even still, about 8-10,000 miles on the P Zeros. No sense

about it It is what it is.

Tires are always a trade off--you probably aren't going to like tires that trade off grip for longer wear. Of the tires I've had (Pirelli PZeros and Rosso, Michelin Pilot Sports and PS2's, and Continentals), I like the Michelins overall the best. Above average grip that doesn't get noisy/require frequent rebalancing over their lifespan.

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Jul 26, 2006 3:58:38 AM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
This is normal, especially on the rears. This is because of the neg camber that sportcars have in order to favor grip and handling in the curves, especially so the 911 in the rears due to the rear engine. You do not want to change alignment to have even wear, you would hinder handling and performance. Contrary to popular belief, ever wear is not a good thing necesarily, especially in sportcars. In a sportcar such as the 911, if you get even wear on the rears it ussually means you are not driving it like it was meant to and are going to slow on the corners.

Hi Carlos,
Thanks for the clarification. I always thought this was due to manufacturers trying to make cars more safe and predictable. In this setup, is the entire tire surface not being used? Does the inside wear more because the tire is not flat on the surface during regular driving or before the tire is fully loaded under cornering? I thought that optimal camber was reached with the entire tire surface is used under hard cornering.

Just noticed this on my Elise as it's time for new tires.

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Jul 26, 2006 10:44:52 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: bstew

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

Quote:
bstew said: Man it is just hard for me to believe I will have to buy a set of tires every year. Does anyone make a non N rated tire that gets good tread wear for non performance Porsche drivers like me?

+++ I have bought three sets of tyres this year. I would be happy if one set would last half a year.

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Jul 26, 2006 4:50:13 PM

911csbcn: Newbie; Loc: barcelona; Posts: 23, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 17, 2006; Reply to: baja

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

i got the 997s with ps2. changed all four with 6700km, with front and rear showing the ropes. all this including break in, very much spirited roads, but no track. a was amazed with the ps2 grip performance, in dry and wet conditios.but i decided to switch to contis, asuming they would be aharder compound (280 vs 220). they are really another worl in grip terms. i mean there is no possible compare between them. but the worst thing is that now i got 10700km, that means only 4000km with contis, and the inside of rear are allready to indicator. considering there has not been break in period, maybe they are even in wear time with michelin. so in my opinion the ONLY thing better about contis is they are a bit cheaper, but that difference is not that big, so if you want to enjoy your car, in all its capacities, michelin are much better. and specially the front ones that give an incredible feel and grip of front axis.
hope to help a little bit in comparing. cant tell you about pirellis casue i havent tryed them.

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Jul 26, 2006 5:38:36 PM

Genki: Junior; Loc: Canada; Posts: 106, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 2, 2006; Reply to: 911csbcn

Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

after watching last week's top gear, i'm gonna be changing my tires more often.

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Re: Quick question regarding Michelin tire wear

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