Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari - Page1

Jul 19, 2006 1:27:54 PM

last911: Newbie; Loc: Morton, Illinois , United States; Posts: 19, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 15, 2003; Reply to: cookie monster

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Life is short. Tomorrow is promised to no one. A day you don't drive the car is a day you'll never get back. Ask yourself why you are buying this thing? What enjoyment is there in keeping a car in the garage so as not to exceed 2000 miles? Once at a PCA annual meeting, where an impressive display of concours Porches was laid out for a feast for the eyes, Ferry Porsche was asked if he was proud to see the loving care and passion owners had for his product. He answered that like his father, he was disappointed that the owners hadn't driven and enjoyed the cars. That was the reason why Porsche has a passion for building them in the first place.

Cheers,

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Jul 19, 2006 1:41:23 PM

Gary(SF): Senior; Loc: SF Bay Area; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 4, 2003; Reply to: cookie monster

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Quote:
ptcja said:
So let me get this straight. If it is really the case for the Ferrari to appreciate significantly immediately after purchase and yet you can't sell it (due to the possibility of being blacklisted), then you should just drive it ever so slightly up to 2000 miles so you can still preserve its value?

Just as a data point, I drove my '04 360 7500 mi in 18 mo and sold it for more than I paid for it (MSRP). And it was not even red/tan.

Gary

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Jul 20, 2006 4:02:18 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: Gary(SF)

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Question for Nick, I cannot recall reading anything about your daily driver, I just wanted to know out of interest what other cars you adore and what you drive on a daily basis. I would love a 430 but can only have one car at the moment. No parking available : ( But I am very serious about ordering either a Ferrari 430 or a Gallardo. (Ferrari will take 24 months to get and the Gallardo 12 months)

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Jul 20, 2006 7:12:04 PM

355Spider: Co-Pilot; Loc: Dallas, Texas , United States; Posts: 277, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2006; Reply to: cookie monster

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Quote:
ptcja said:
Quote:
DJB said:
Fred, I will try and explain what happens. Generally, the wait time for a new Ferrari is about 18-24 months once you have put down a $10k deposit. Once you take deliver, the car is immediately worth a premium of $35-50k on the secondary mnarket due to the wait time. If you sell (other than through a dealer) you will be blacklisted and not welcome into the queue again. If you drive your car over 2000 miles, it is not regarded as "new" and is more difficult to sell (at a premium). It takes a while for a lower priced market to develop for higher mileage and less than msrp priced models (say 2-4 years after you bought it). The result is a choice: drive your car and go into uncertainty of ability to sell, or treat each mile carefully and preserve the marketability so you can take deliver of another new one and pay for it with the sale of the used (new to someone else not in the queue). I hope this gives you an understanding of what is a rather interesting, but silly situation.

Cheers,

David

4

So let me get this straight. If it is really the case for the Ferrari to appreciate significantly immediately after purchase and yet you can't sell it (due to the possibility of being blacklisted), then you should just drive it ever so slightly up to 2000 miles so you can still preserve its value? So anything past 2000 miles would be considered high mileages and the value would plummet I presume. So in the first place, you are really buying a Ferrari in hope that it will appreciate so you can use the proceeds to buy another new one? If you were to ask me, buying a Ferrari as a vehicle of investment hoping that it would appreciate or at least sell for the same MSRP price is not a wise move. You would have a better chance to make money by putting all those $$$ in the stock market buying McDonald's stocks or Coca Cola stocks. Cars seldom go up in value except very very rare ones like the Ferrari Dino or maybe ENZO or Pagani Zonda F. Cars to me are pretty much depreciating assets in almost all cases. Hence, I would simply buy a Ferrari and drive the heck out of it so at least to make the money worth my while. It's a catch 22 and a rather silly situation for those who spend so much money only allowing the nice RED HOTTY sit right in the Garage.

That's just nto true these days for mid engined V8 Ferraris. They have all gone up in value for the last ten or so years quite a bit once they leave the showroom floor due to the unavailability of them. The guys that are on the list are doing quite well. They buy new at MSRP with the dealer getting to buy back at a slight premium(say 20K over msrp) in 6months - 1 year and they get another with the same deal. So they make a profit on each car while the dealer sells their used on at 40-50K over msrp.

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Jul 20, 2006 7:14:14 PM

355Spider: Co-Pilot; Loc: Dallas, Texas , United States; Posts: 277, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2006; Reply to: Gary(SF)

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Quote:
Gary(SF) said:
Quote:
ptcja said:
So let me get this straight. If it is really the case for the Ferrari to appreciate significantly immediately after purchase and yet you can't sell it (due to the possibility of being blacklisted), then you should just drive it ever so slightly up to 2000 miles so you can still preserve its value?

Just as a data point, I drove my '04 360 7500 mi in 18 mo and sold it for more than I paid for it (MSRP). And it was not even red/tan.

Gary

I'm there with you. I drove mine 6800 miles in 18 months. That was with some severe restraint on my part. There's no way I could only put a few hundred miles a year on it. I love to drive way too much.

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Jul 20, 2006 10:08:27 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
Question for Nick, I cannot recall reading anything about your daily driver, I just wanted to know out of interest what other cars you adore and what you drive on a daily basis. I would love a 430 but can only have one car at the moment. No parking available : ( But I am very serious about ordering either a Ferrari 430 or a Gallardo. (Ferrari will take 24 months to get and the Gallardo 12 months)

I own a Cayenne and a Minicooper. I absolutely love the Mini. I usually use the Mini for driving around town on business. The Cayenne allows me to transport more people in comfort and it handles as well if not better than most sedans. However, it has been a service nightmare.

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Jul 20, 2006 11:21:37 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

The Mini is great! I wouldn't mind getting one! Shame about the Cayenne.

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Jul 20, 2006 11:34:08 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
The Mini is great! I wouldn't mind getting one! Shame about the Cayenne.

Most of the problems have been minor but a nuisance. I am on my third radio and I need to schedule to take it in because it does not work.

Also, I have learned to live with the hesitation which Porsche denies exists.

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Jul 20, 2006 11:41:09 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
The Mini is great! I wouldn't mind getting one! Shame about the Cayenne.

Most of the problems have been minor but a nuisance. I am on my third radio and I need to schedule to take it in because it does not work.

Also, I have learned to live with the hesitation which Porsche denies exists.

Quick reply! You must be online right now! I had to change the radio in my brand new 996 three times as well! In the end it was OK but a pain.

How many miles on the 430? Any issues so far? Did you go with the F1 or the manual transmission? In Japan Ferrari warns you that you will need to change the clutch between 8,000 KM and 15,000KM because of the notorious traffic jams. In addition, the cost is about USD 8,000.?Guess in the states that problem shouldn't exist.

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Jul 20, 2006 11:55:23 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
The Mini is great! I wouldn't mind getting one! Shame about the Cayenne.

Most of the problems have been minor but a nuisance. I am on my third radio and I need to schedule to take it in because it does not work.

Also, I have learned to live with the hesitation which Porsche denies exists.

Quick reply! You must be online right now! I had to change the radio in my brand new 996 three times as well! In the end it was OK but a pain.

How many miles on the 430? Any issues so far? Did you go with the F1 or the manual transmission? In Japan Ferrari warns you that you will need to change the clutch between 8,000 KM and 15,000KM because of the notorious traffic jams. In addition, the cost is about USD 8,000.?Guess in the states that problem shouldn't exist.

I have 4300 glorious miles on the Spider. It is a fantastic car. Initially I had some concerns regarding cosmetic issues but service for the most part resolved those.

I have the F1 and would not order a manual again. The F1 is fabulous. Replacing the clutch is all dependent on the driver. It is estimated the clutch will last at least 20-30000 miles in normal traffic conditions. It will last longer for highway use. Typically, the clutch suffers the most in reverse. For an example, if you have a driveway where you need to back out going up hill it will wear the clutch out sooner.

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Jul 21, 2006 12:08:12 AM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Cool - need to start saving those pennies : )

Will post pics when i get one! Might take another year or two though! I am going for black with tan - coupe - guess I will go with the F1.

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Jul 21, 2006 5:58:10 AM

cookie monster: Senior; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 564, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2005; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
The Mini is great! I wouldn't mind getting one! Shame about the Cayenne.

Porky that's one thing putting me off on a 430 or any FERRARI per se. In and out, HK is now notorious for its speed trap. Average speed is what? 30 km? The last ENZO FERRARI owner was seen driving across the cross harbour tunnel at 20km/h. In US, Nick would be far and away with his 430 after an hour and I would still have traversed to maybe... oh 10 km? Still stuck in traffic. Yeah the clutch I heard would need to be replaced 5000-8000 km but I wonder how the F1 gearbox does and standup in traffic like ours. Also, is it a warrantied item?

Most of the problems have been minor but a nuisance. I am on my third radio and I need to schedule to take it in because it does not work.

Also, I have learned to live with the hesitation which Porsche denies exists.

Quick reply! You must be online right now! I had to change the radio in my brand new 996 three times as well! In the end it was OK but a pain.

How many miles on the 430? Any issues so far? Did you go with the F1 or the manual transmission? In Japan Ferrari warns you that you will need to change the clutch between 8,000 KM and 15,000KM because of the notorious traffic jams. In addition, the cost is about USD 8,000.?Guess in the states that problem shouldn't exist.

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Jul 21, 2006 6:03:56 AM

cookie monster: Senior; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 564, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2005; Reply to: cookie monster

Re: Long term reliability Porsche V Ferrari

Porky and Nick, HK is notorious for speedtrap and taffic jam. As far as the 360 is concerned, premature failure of the clutch happened to my neighbour at 5000 km and 8000 km. 430 probably has improved but it's a tough call when you find that the last ENZO owner in HK was seen driving cross harbour tunnel at 20km/h. Average speed is 50 or so and highest limit 110 km/h. It'd be a waste but I guess the dude driving at 20km/h enjoyed BEING SEEN driving his red enzo more. Today was talking to a friend and he said there were definitely reasons why Porsche used tiptronic s on the turbo - RELIABILITY. Hard as a rock considering how CLASSIC AND OLD it is and 3.7 s is not bad over the manual. I am starting to believe him as the tip s box goes through years on without needing replacements. Nick sorry to hear about the Cayenne but reading on USA today, I wouldn't be surprised...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-06-27-porsche-usat_x.htm

by the way is the clutch a warrantable item?

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