Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!! - Page1

Jul 18, 2006 1:56:12 AM

tkids: Co-Pilot; Loc: CO. USA. , United States; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2005

Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Now that I am back from my Euro delivery trip is when I find out the real skinny!!!

Euro delivery is costing me $$$$. Porsche does not only charge for Euro delivery, $2250 in my case, but require a $10k deposit for German VAT. You get that 10k back when the car returns to a US port.

Here is where you get screwed! When you register the car the Monroney label has the VAT deposit on it. The state taxes you on the deposit! Well this is the case in the state where I was going to register it. Dealership told me Porsche has been communicated this problem with their format, but they pretend not to know what is going on??!?!

The thing that bothers me is that Porsche knows of this, but doesn't care to simply change th format! All they have to do is leave it off the monroney label.

So the let it me known, that you pay taxes a refundable deposit!

I am not sure why Mercedes/BMW don't take a deposit for German VAT, maybe they just respect their customers more!!!

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Jul 18, 2006 1:58:50 AM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: tkids

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

GREAT news! I suppose Porsche doesn't care at that point,--they already got paid. Will elevate it with my local sales guys and PCNA.

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Jul 18, 2006 4:55:45 AM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Not only that, registration is based on purchase price. Maybe you can get some type of refund from the DMV.

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Jul 18, 2006 5:43:58 PM

sato: Pilot; Loc: New York, U.S.A.; Posts: 364, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 8, 2005; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

That's odd. I only got taxed on the value I paid for the car net of the negotiated discount and not including VAT. My dealer initially told me the tax was on the gross price of the car (at the retail price, still not including VAT), but I reminded him that our negotiated price is the sales price.

BTW, isn't the taxable amount determined by what the dealer registers as the sales price and not the Monroney label? My Monroney label shows the full retail price including VAT, while my final invoice from the dealer itemizes the negotiated vehicle price (against which the tax is calculated) with VAT pencilled in.

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Jul 18, 2006 5:47:12 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: sato

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

PAG's extra cost european delivery is an outrage. They should discount the car for euro delivery instead.

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Jul 18, 2006 5:55:14 PM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Can't you write off the tax you paid?

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Jul 18, 2006 6:22:04 PM

tkids: Co-Pilot; Loc: CO. USA. , United States; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2005; Reply to: sato

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Believe me I have brought this point up to them. No luck. I told them to itemize it out. They say they can't do it. I do have to say that this dealership has turned out to be alot of work during this entire purchase, that is now costing me!

The monroney label reads 106k, they are writing the purchase order up at 100k which includes the vat of 10k. I told them to itemize it out as a deposit, they are clueless! They have been talking to the DMV, bet those desk jockeys are giving different anwsers for every call.

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Jul 18, 2006 6:32:01 PM

tkids: Co-Pilot; Loc: CO. USA. , United States; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2005; Reply to: ADias

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

After the experience in 1984 and last month. It is fantastic driving the car in Europe at 170mph, but dealing with the dealership and Porsche's Euro department for over 6 months is too long. You need to keep it as short as possible, maybe 3 hours on a saturday!!

Also, knowing what BMW and Mercedes offer........doesn't help.

I must agree with you! They shouldn't charge a thing.

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Jul 18, 2006 7:45:52 PM

sato: Pilot; Loc: New York, U.S.A.; Posts: 364, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 8, 2005; Reply to: tkids

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Quote:
tkids said:I told them to itemize it out. They say they can't do it. . . . they are writing the purchase order up at 100k which includes the vat of 10k.

Dealers are so full of B.S.

I'm no expert, but you shouldn't be able to charge tax on refundable VAT! In fact I have a problem with them assessing tax on a delivery charge (factory delivery and then local delivery), but would have gone ballistic if they dared tax me on refundable VAT.

Curious to know if PCNA would tell you the same thing. May be worth a call.

I think most U.S. dealers haven't a clue how to manage a tourist delivery and so make things up as they go along.

I say you demand they cut you a check for that incremental tax you are being asked to pay as a charge for their incompetence.

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Jul 19, 2006 2:03:44 AM

tkids: Co-Pilot; Loc: CO. USA. , United States; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2005; Reply to: sato

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Quote:
sato said:
Quote:
tkids said:I told them to itemize it out. They say they can't do it. . . . they are writing the purchase order up at 100k which includes the vat of 10k.

Dealers are so full of B.S.

I'm no expert, but you shouldn't be able to charge tax on refundable VAT! In fact I have a problem with them assessing tax on a delivery charge (factory delivery and then local delivery), but would have gone ballistic if they dared tax me on refundable VAT.

Curious to know if PCNA would tell you the same thing. May be worth a call.

I think most U.S. dealers haven't a clue how to manage a tourist delivery and so make things up as they go along.

I say you demand they cut you a check for that incremental tax you are being asked to pay as a charge for their incompetence.

Oh, I put in 2 calls to PCNA. Seems she(euro dept) won't return my calls now that I have paid in full. They called back the dealer saying they never heard of this problem. Then I have the dealer telling me they have seen this problem brought up several times to PCNA via the dealership comm. So I am paying tax on Euro fee, dest. fee, and VAT. $13045.

Tough dealing now with the dealership as he has his money too!

Dealing with 8months of incompetence is too much.

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Jul 19, 2006 2:15:35 AM

tincanman99: Junior; Loc: NJ, USA; Posts: 93, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2005; Reply to: tkids

You Sure The Dealer Is Not Pocketing That Extra 13K?

Not to be a naysayer but I dont trust anyone where money is concerned. This whole thing sounds kind of fishy to me. Paying tax on VAT which is tax + tax on dest fee and stuff... Please...

Sounds to me like some kind of hustle on the dealers part. Are you sure they are not pocketing that 13K has a little extra profit margin? I would not put anything past them. How do you honestly know they are giving that money to the goverment?

You had better look into it because I think they are hustling you.

If you think Porsche dealers dont do stuff like this, than think again. I just finished reading an article about how Porsche dealers register the car just so they can get the warranty started so they can collect $$$. Than when they sell the car they dont reveal to the customer that the warranty was already started as the car was titled.

Trust no one.

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Jul 19, 2006 2:31:12 AM

SoCalHoosier: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 896, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003; Reply to: tincanman99

Re: You Sure The Dealer Is Not Pocketing That Extra 13K?

Quote:
tincanman99 said:
Not to be a naysayer but I dont trust anyone where money is concerned. This whole thing sounds kind of fishy to me. Paying tax on VAT which is tax + tax on dest fee and stuff... Please...

Sounds to me like some kind of hustle on the dealers part. Are you sure they are not pocketing that 13K has a little extra profit margin? I would not put anything past them. How do you honestly know they are giving that money to the goverment?

You had better look into it because I think they are hustling you.

If you think Porsche dealers dont do stuff like this, than think again. I just finished reading an article about how Porsche dealers register the car just so they can get the warranty started so they can collect $$$. Than when they sell the car they dont reveal to the customer that the warranty was already started as the car was titled.

Trust no one.

I haven't just heard of that warranty thing you mentioned, but I've seen it in motion.

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Jul 19, 2006 2:34:49 AM

SoCalHoosier: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 896, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003; Reply to: tkids

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

tkids-

BTW which dealership are you dealing with?

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Jul 19, 2006 5:08:32 AM

tkids: Co-Pilot; Loc: CO. USA. , United States; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2005; Reply to: SoCalHoosier

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:
tkids-

BTW which dealership are you dealing with?

I am dealing a dealership in KY. I guess it is my own fault.

I have certainly learned quite abit about PCNA and some of the people that run it.

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Jul 20, 2006 1:52:05 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: tkids

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

I checked with my dealer and he told me that the extra charge for Euro delivery is a 2% VAT imposed by the EU and non-refundable. This will apply to ALL makes in Europe.

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Jul 20, 2006 4:05:53 AM

tkids: Co-Pilot; Loc: CO. USA. , United States; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2005; Reply to: ADias

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Quote:
ADias said:
I checked with my dealer and he told me that the extra charge for Euro delivery is a 2% VAT imposed by the EU and non-refundable. This will apply to ALL makes in Europe.

I would be suspect of that comment. Firstly, BMW and Mercedes don't charge a thing, maybe they eat the cost, but most likey not if they are giving up discounts on top of the delivery???

But don't forget, insurance is included in the euro charge. For a c4s it is $260/week and they give you 2 weeks free. But as it is Porsche I don't think you are getting anything free.

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Jul 20, 2006 4:22:47 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Quote:
Dan L said:
GREAT news! I suppose Porsche doesn't care at that point,--they already got paid. Will elevate it with my local sales guys and PCNA.

Dan,

Is this common?

What the heck!

I'm cutting a check next month for my Euro delivery...

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Jul 20, 2006 4:24:42 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

tkids,

Was this part of your contract? I hope you receive your money back.

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Jul 20, 2006 5:56:47 AM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Quote:
SVNSVN said:
Quote:
Dan L said:
GREAT news! I suppose Porsche doesn't care at that point,--they already got paid. Will elevate it with my local sales guys and PCNA.

Dan,

Is this common? What the heck! I'm cutting a check next month for my Euro delivery...

This is all news to me. I knew in advance that Porsche asks us to anti-up $10,000 to help with the VAT security deposit (Porsche takes care of the balance with their 'Feds',--which they refund to us with interest. We never lose that money. No one is getting away with that sort of money.

When it comes to registering the car in California the state is entitled to their percentage based upon the sales price, not some imaginery number that has nothing to do with what you paid. When I paid for my car, I specifically cut them two checks,--one for the actual "sales price" and a second one for the VAT deposit of $10K which I should see again very soon when the Porsche has cleared Germany's borders. (Of course a lot of that will go to California for the sales tax!)

Dan

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Jul 20, 2006 6:05:46 AM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

So, what's the bottom line as to what a Euro delivery costs? I'm assuming about $1K extra? If so that doesn't sound too bad for the priveledge of driving your car around Europe for a bit. If you were to rent it'd be a few hundred a day or so.

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Jul 20, 2006 12:11:19 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Quote:
Dan L said:
Quote:
SVNSVN said:
Quote:
Dan L said:
GREAT news! I suppose Porsche doesn't care at that point,--they already got paid. Will elevate it with my local sales guys and PCNA.

Dan,

Is this common? What the heck! I'm cutting a check next month for my Euro delivery...

This is all news to me. I knew in advance that Porsche asks us to anti-up $10,000 to help with the VAT security deposit (Porsche takes care of the balance with their 'Feds',--which they refund to us with interest. We never lose that money. No one is getting away with that sort of money.

When it comes to registering the car in California the state is entitled to their percentage based upon the sales price, not some imaginery number that has nothing to do with what you paid. When I paid for my car, I specifically cut them two checks,--one for the actual "sales price" and a second one for the VAT deposit of $10K which I should see again very soon when the Porsche has cleared Germany's borders. (Of course a lot of that will go to California for the sales tax!)

Dan

Dan,

So we will be taxed on the VAT too- but separately?

Hopefully my salesperson will let me know today.

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Jul 20, 2006 12:15:20 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Quote:
SrfCity said:
So, what's the bottom line as to what a Euro delivery costs? I'm assuming about $1K extra? If so that doesn't sound too bad for the priveledge of driving your car around Europe for a bit. If you were to rent it'd be a few hundred a day or so.

Srfcity,

More like several thousand -if we are taxed on the VAT too.

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Jul 20, 2006 5:47:38 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

as I recall, euro del was around $2250.

dan

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Jul 20, 2006 8:22:39 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

Quote:
Dan L said:
as I recall, euro del was around $2250.

dan

If that's the case then just factor it in including the extra for VAT. In OC that'd be $734 on the $10K. Still I think that if you want the priveledge and the once in a lifetime experience it's not too bad.

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Jul 20, 2006 8:54:29 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Euro delivery is costing me now!!

I spoke with my (local) salesman today and he's never heard of this sort of problem with California playing that sort of game on the German VAT deposit. It may be complicated by his having dealt out of state with a dealer who went with the "out of sight out of mind" philosophy. I wish him the best of luck. Ultimately, I think things will work themselves out,--you certainly can't be held to pay tax on something that is both (1 another tax and (2) refundable to you as well(and thus, not a total sales-based fee.

Dan

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