Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance? - Page1

Jul 6, 2006 12:38:14 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14174, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005

Does a sport air filter affect performance?

I installed a BMC sport air filter.
Not to gain anything but a little louder intake sound. And it does.

BUT : It seems that after 55000 rmp ( when vario cam kicks in) I lost performance

I don't know if it is just that the difference of noise before 5500 and after is lessened due to the air filter or if, I really have lost some power in the high range?

Could that be possible? My mechanic can't answer me precisely. He thinks it should not, but then... ???

Anyone knows?

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Jul 6, 2006 8:44:00 PM

jcs: Pilot; Loc: nj; Posts: 308, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2006; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance?

Wow, you Swiss sure beat your engines. Lol

But seriously, YES .
Anytime you change the backpressure on a normally aspirated engine, the performance is affected .
How , at what speeds and at what RPM's can only be determined by someone with the proper equipment.
Porsche spent a lot of time fine tuning their engines and there usually is a good reason why they do things the way they do.

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Jul 6, 2006 8:54:47 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance?

Quote:
Gnil said:
I installed a BMC sport air filter.
Not to gain anything but a little louder intake sound. And it does.

BUT : It seems that after 55000 rmp ( when vario cam kicks in) I lost performance

I don't know if it is just that the difference of noise before 5500 and after is lessened due to the air filter or if, I really have lost some power in the high range?

Could that be possible? My mechanic can't answer me precisely. He thinks it should not, but then... ???

Anyone knows?

Usually, you gain 2-3 HP on a 355 HP car...if you're lucky.
I doubt that performance has been reduced. Has your mechanic checked if the airfilter has been installed properly and if it fits perfectly? I remember I bought a BMC airfilter for my 996 Turbo and after I installed it, there was a one cm gap between the airfilter box housing and the airfilter itself. It was real crap, so I got a K&N filter instead. Of course this was almost 6 years ago, quality may have changed.

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Jul 7, 2006 9:06:40 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14174, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance?

The filter seemed ok, it has a very similar build as the K&N, but I will check it out again in a few days and try it again with the stock filter, just to compare it again ..
Thanks.

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Jul 7, 2006 5:44:18 PM

jcs: Pilot; Loc: nj; Posts: 308, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2006; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance?

That's funny . All the "experts" who track their cars etc.
and are much more informed than I, state the exact opposite.

That they would NEVER put a K&N filter into their Porsche.
Especially not the cleanable, oiled ones.
And that the BMC's are by far the best .
Go figure . Lol

Btw: On another web site , K&N claim a 25 TO 32 HP gain over the factory intake.I think that in itself speaks volumes as to what K&N is all about. I have no first hand
experience with K&N, but based on claims like that, I tend to side with the experts.

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Jul 8, 2006 12:04:58 PM

blakt out: Junior; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 87, Gallery; Registered on: May 13, 2006; Reply to: jcs

Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance?

OK. First of all, a lesser-restrictive intake has NOTHING to do with backpressure. Exhausts do. What happens in situations like this (I've put intakes on probably a dozen of my cars in the past 10 years) is that the engine is either getting more air than it is programmed to for the same amount of fuel (ECU) or the exhaust is just too restrictive at the higher rpms to make any good use of the air. I'm betting that the first scenario is our issue here. All that is required for fire (power) is air, spark, and fuel. These have to be kept in a certain ratio, with a small variance of mixture being ok (a little leaner is ok... a little richer is ok... but not much difference is allowed before you have TROUBLE). An intake won't make you run lean enough to worry about anything. To a point, an ECU will notice that there is more air coming through the Mass Air Sensor and will keep your injectors open a bit longer to keep the ratio right. So you will see an increase in power. Also, if the intake is bringing in COLD air, which is more dense, you will see more power again due to a higher level of measured air and thus more gas injected. If, when the bigger cam lobe atarts operation at higher rpms, the computer isn't able to put enough fuel in in order to keep the ratio right, it will modulate the effort and you will abrubtly stop reaping the full benefits of the extra air at this moment. If you actually can tell that this is happening by the 'seat of your pants', then first of all you have a very sensitive bum. I would check it on a dyno. In the end, I would bet that you'd really be happy with a good ECU upgrade. You'll then get a synergetic benefit from the two. Kind of like a 2+2=5 deal. The thing is, it's addictive from there, because you know now that if you only let it breathe a little better and opened up that horrible exhaust (especially the headers) that Porsche gives us, you'd get 2+2+2=9. That's been my problem. I totally disagree with the 'Porsche engineers designed it to be best from the factory' approach. While I know that I am a mods addict and my opinion may be skewed, all you have to do is look at the headers on a 997S. They are horrible. Just my thoughts, guys. I'd get a chip... and a full exhaust (sans the cats so you don't get into any ECU troubles just for a horsepower or two).

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Jul 9, 2006 6:07:42 AM

zoltan: Co-Pilot; Loc: Athens , Greece; Posts: 275, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2004; Reply to: blakt out

Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance?

Quote:
blakt out said:
OK. First of all, a lesser-restrictive intake has NOTHING to do with backpressure. Exhausts do. What happens in situations like this (I've put intakes on probably a dozen of my cars in the past 10 years) is that the engine is either getting more air than it is programmed to for the same amount of fuel (ECU) or the exhaust is just too restrictive at the higher rpms to make any good use of the air. I'm betting that the first scenario is our issue here. All that is required for fire (power) is air, spark, and fuel. These have to be kept in a certain ratio, with a small variance of mixture being ok (a little leaner is ok... a little richer is ok... but not much difference is allowed before you have TROUBLE). An intake won't make you run lean enough to worry about anything. To a point, an ECU will notice that there is more air coming through the Mass Air Sensor and will keep your injectors open a bit longer to keep the ratio right. So you will see an increase in power. Also, if the intake is bringing in COLD air, which is more dense, you will see more power again due to a higher level of measured air and thus more gas injected. If, when the bigger cam lobe atarts operation at higher rpms, the computer isn't able to put enough fuel in in order to keep the ratio right, it will modulate the effort and you will abrubtly stop reaping the full benefits of the extra air at this moment. If you actually can tell that this is happening by the 'seat of your pants', then first of all you have a very sensitive bum. I would check it on a dyno. In the end, I would bet that you'd really be happy with a good ECU upgrade. You'll then get a synergetic benefit from the two. Kind of like a 2+2=5 deal. The thing is, it's addictive from there, because you know now that if you only let it breathe a little better and opened up that horrible exhaust (especially the headers) that Porsche gives us, you'd get 2+2+2=9. That's been my problem. I totally disagree with the 'Porsche engineers designed it to be best from the factory' approach. While I know that I am a mods addict and my opinion may be skewed, all you have to do is look at the headers on a 997S. They are horrible. Just my thoughts, guys. I'd get a chip... and a full exhaust (sans the cats so you don't get into any ECU troubles just for a horsepower or two).

Thanks for the post. Any idea about what kind of headers (AWE, Spersprint, Tubi)? Do you think that it could cause any problems with PSE?

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Jul 9, 2006 11:13:04 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14174, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: blakt out

Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance?

Quote:
blakt out said:
OK. First of all, a lesser-restrictive intake has NOTHING to do with backpressure. Exhausts do. What happens in situations like this (I've put intakes on probably a dozen of my cars in the past 10 years) is that the engine is either getting more air than it is programmed to for the same amount of fuel (ECU) or the exhaust is just too restrictive at the higher rpms to make any good use of the air. I'm betting that the first scenario is our issue here. All that is required for fire (power) is air, spark, and fuel. These have to be kept in a certain ratio, with a small variance of mixture being ok (a little leaner is ok... a little richer is ok... but not much difference is allowed before you have TROUBLE). An intake won't make you run lean enough to worry about anything. To a point, an ECU will notice that there is more air coming through the Mass Air Sensor and will keep your injectors open a bit longer to keep the ratio right. So you will see an increase in power. Also, if the intake is bringing in COLD air, which is more dense, you will see more power again due to a higher level of measured air and thus more gas injected. If, when the bigger cam lobe atarts operation at higher rpms, the computer isn't able to put enough fuel in in order to keep the ratio right, it will modulate the effort and you will abrubtly stop reaping the full benefits of the extra air at this moment. If you actually can tell that this is happening by the 'seat of your pants', then first of all you have a very sensitive bum. I would check it on a dyno. In the end, I would bet that you'd really be happy with a good ECU upgrade. You'll then get a synergetic benefit from the two. Kind of like a 2+2=5 deal. The thing is, it's addictive from there, because you know now that if you only let it breathe a little better and opened up that horrible exhaust (especially the headers) that Porsche gives us, you'd get 2+2+2=9. That's been my problem. I totally disagree with the 'Porsche engineers designed it to be best from the factory' approach. While I know that I am a mods addict and my opinion may be skewed, all you have to do is look at the headers on a 997S. They are horrible. Just my thoughts, guys. I'd get a chip... and a full exhaust (sans the cats so you don't get into any ECU troubles just for a horsepower or two).

Great explanation that makes lots of sence... Thanks

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Jul 9, 2006 7:40:15 PM

jcs: Pilot; Loc: nj; Posts: 308, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2006; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance?

Blakt out , thank you for your explanation.
I was always under the impression that in a normally aspirated engine , the amount of combustion air being drawn into the engine is equal to the volume displaced by the piston , since it is at atmospheric pressure.
The only way more air could be forced into this space would be by compressing it ( via a supercharger for example )
If this is true, then how would less resistance thru the intake ( filter etc.) result in more air to the engine ?

Would it not just requir less energy from the engine to suck it in , making that energy then available as extra HP at the driven wheel ?
The same would be true if the exhaust system had less resistance thru it .
Since what goes in , must come out, I don't think the engine cares if more power is required at the intake or the exhaust . The term "backpressure" therefore would be moot .

Also , I thought that a normaly aspirated engine required a certain amount of backpressure or there would be less torque at lower RPM's ?

Interesting discussion.
Your thoughts ?

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Jul 13, 2006 11:01:12 AM

911digital: Veteran; Loc: Staffordshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 2, 2005; Reply to: jcs

Re: Does a sport air filter affect performance?

When the engine sucks air in, if its less restrictive think of it as trying to breathe through a straw, the bigger the straw the better you can breathe.

air filters are restrictive due to the fact that its a filter which cleans the air.

obviously the filter needs to filter out small particles of dust and because of this the air takes more time to travel through the filter, this is why its restrictive....

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