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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    Jul 2, 2006 8:14:39 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

    AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    We finally met and you will be surprised: the picture(s) show only Rennteam moderators/admins and good buddies, nobody new. When we finally do the shootout we planned, we want to see more cars from Rennteam USERS.

    Btw: we had a "little" shootout, and everbody agreed that the 997 Turbo Tiptronic is a hell of a car. We even did a few black forest rounds and it is amazing how the Tip works. Quote from the driver ahead of me (he was the "leading car"): "and you really didn't shift the Tip manually, just in auto mode? Amazing, absolutely amazing." I couldn't agree more. Another thing we found out: the 997 Turbo Tip is as fast as the 996 GT2 MkII from any speed range up to 250 kph or so (we couldn't go faster), the GT2 didn't gain a centimeter, it was like as if Porsche would have "programmed" it to be as fast as the 997 TT or vice versa, incredible. So far, the missing 6th gear of the Tip wasn't actually missed at all. I have the feeling that Porsche "compensates" the missing 6th gear with more boost, had 1.0 to 1.1 bar almost all the time over 250 kph. As a conclusion, the 997 Turbo Tip is an amazing car and even if Porsche claims it has 480 HP, everybody agreed that the real power must be in the 510-520 HP range. Look at the pictures, you'll understand. And another good thing: up to around 200 kph (125 mph), there is actually no car on the street which can outrun the 997 TT. It is damn fast in this speed range, unbelievable, especially with Tip.

    These are just a few pictures, more to follow tomorrow, I'm just tired and want to go to bed.

    Jul 2, 2006 8:15:41 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Cooling off...Black Forest

    Jul 2, 2006 8:16:29 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Awesome, RC! So, how did it do against the Corvette? Glad you guys had fun !

    Jul 2, 2006 8:16:34 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Two black beasts...both with Tip and both incredibly fast.

    Jul 2, 2006 8:18:22 PM

    sterio
    Junior
    sterio
    Loc: sweden
    Posts: 95, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 16, 2004
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    How do you get invited to this car party?

    Jul 2, 2006 8:18:34 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Two black beasts...both with Tip and both incredibly fast.



    So, is your overboost "bug" an anomaly, or did the other car have that too?

    Jul 2, 2006 8:27:54 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Awesome, RC! So, how did it do against the Corvette? Glad you guys had fun !



    The Corvette was a modded C06 with 535 HP. This is the buddy of the Z06 owner who didn't have time to come. But the power of both cars is the same, they had them on an engine dyno. Weight is also almost the same. This modded C06 was as fast as my 997 Turbo in the up to 200 kph (125 mph) range, neither of us was faster. But at higher speeds over 230 kph or so, I started to slowly pull away. But still...very impressive. Again: modded to 535 HP (real ones, the owner is a former race driver who also works for a Porsche Motorsport company).
    The only car which actually was faster than the 997 Turbo was a Sportec modded 996 Turbo with 600 HP. In the 0-200 kph speed range, both same performance. But after 220 kph, he started to slowly pull away, at around 250 kph, he was two car lengths or so ahead of me.

    But like I said before, these guys were pretty impressed and nobody really believed Porsche's claim that there are only 480 HP under the hood. The comparison with the GT2 MkII actually proved it, this car is aprox. 100 kg lighter and has 3 HP more on the paper. And still...as fast as the 997 TT, not a tick faster, nothing. Impressive, Porsche did a great job with the 997 TT.

    And I should also mention that we had a RS-Tuning tuned 993 Turbo with over 560 HP in our middle. For such an "old" car, it performed brilliantly, absolutely great. It was actually the "leading car" in the black forest and what really was fun: he was blowing out FLAMES out of his exhaust pipes, oh boy...

    Just can't wait to get past 10000 km or so, this is when the "second wind" should come according to some Porsche engineers, the 997 Turbo performance should be even slightly better.

    Jul 2, 2006 8:40:27 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: sterio

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    sterio said:
    How do you get invited to this car party?



    1. you need to be a Rennteam moderator/admin, close buddy and/or just a longtime poster.
    2. you need to own a fast car (no matter which brand)
    3. you need to be an above average sportscar driver with experience
    4. you need to have a good life insurance
    5. was kidding about point 4.

    We actually met with a different occasion but a HUGE Rennteam party is definetely planned for sometimes next year. Btw: one of the black 997 Turbo was from Sweden.

    Jul 2, 2006 8:40:55 PM

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
    Posts: 7856, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Just got home from weekend at Adriatic Coast...
    Excellent report Christian!
    So, the only car that is really faster then 997 Turbo is RUF RT12(possibly 650hp version). That is truly excellent news. You did not try CR's F430F1 Spider? Shame on you! Then you could confirm my findings that 997 Turbo(in both versions) is faster...
    Kreso

    Jul 2, 2006 8:45:38 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Just got home from weekend at Adriatic Coast...
    Excellent report Christian!
    So, the only car that is really faster then 997 Turbo is RUF RT12(possibly 650hp version). That is truly excellent news. You did not try CR's F430F1 Spider? Shame on you! Then you could confirm my findings that 997 Turbo(in both versions) is faster...
    Kreso



    CR's F430 Spider was slowlier than the other mentioned cars, this is why he came in his 600 HP Sportec monster.

    Jul 2, 2006 8:48:24 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So, is your overboost "bug" an anomaly, or did the other car have that too?



    CF's car was going as good as mine, no difference. And yes, his car has the "anomaly" too, maybe this really is a Tiptronic thing...or the fact that both cars are from a press pool.

    Jul 2, 2006 8:53:59 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So, is your overboost "bug" an anomaly, or did the other car have that too?



    CF's car was going as good as mine, no difference. And yes, his car has the "anomaly" too, maybe this really is a Tiptronic thing...or the fact that both cars are from a press pool.



    Next time I'm in the vicinity, I'll be asking you for a ride. You can justify it as "customer entertainment" .

    Jul 2, 2006 8:55:10 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    I wanted to add this: with 0.1-0.2 bar more boost in the upper speed range (over 240 kph or so), the 997 Turbo would "kill" almost everything out there on the street, this is exactly what is missing to make this car perfect.

    I can't even imagine how a modded 997 Turbo with let's say 60-80 horses more would drive, it should be amazing. But I wouldn't add more, there really is no need. In the below 200 kph/125 mph speed range, the 997 Turbo is already amazingly fast. With Tip of course... The GT2 MkII has been tested at 11.7 seconds from 0-200 kph, this would be just right for a Tip Turbo with Sport Chrono. 11.7 seconds... three seconds faster than the "old" 996 Turbo and almost 5 seconds faster than the 997 Carrera S.
    The torque with overboost is also felt pretty well in the lower speed range, this is probably the reason why the 997 Turbo was that amazingly fast below 125 mph/200 kph.

    Jul 2, 2006 8:57:26 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I wanted to add this: with 0.1-0.2 bar more boost in the upper speed range (over 240 kph or so), the 997 Turbo would "kill" almost everything out there on the street, this is exactly what is missing to make this car perfect.

    I can't even imagine how a modded 997 Turbo with let's say 60-80 horses more would drive, it should be amazing. But I wouldn't add more, there really is no need. In the below 200 kph/125 mph speed range, the 997 Turbo is already amazingly fast. With Tip of course... The GT2 MkII has been tested at 11.7 seconds from 0-200 kph, this would be just right for a Tip Turbo with Sport Chrono. 11.7 seconds... three seconds faster than the "old" 996 Turbo and almost 5 seconds faster than the 997 Carrera S.
    The torque with overboost is also felt pretty well in the lower speed range, this is probably the reason why the 997 Turbo was that amazingly fast below 125 mph/200 kph.



    So I guess that the Tip may well truly be faster than the manual. Glad you've made the right choice !

    Jul 2, 2006 9:02:24 PM

    BiTurbo
    Rennteam Master
    BiTurbo
    Loc: X , United States
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Thanks RC!

    I feel like I've done the right thing, but the only thing is the long wait because of the color + I'm a manual guy no auot/tip for me

    Jul 2, 2006 9:02:55 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So I guess that the Tip may well truly be faster than the manual. Glad you've made the right choice !



    Definetely the right choice, ask CF, he will tell you the same. It works like a charm and although I can't go into details for obvious reasons, the Tip should be great for the track too, especially in the hands of a good driver who can take advantage of keeping both hands on the steering wheel. Btw: this is actually where most cars had problems during the shootout, the shifting. Whenever a driver shifted, he fell back a few meters. It was funny seeing that. Tip it is, definetely. I really don't understand why people are that much against it, maybe they should testdrive it first.

    Jul 2, 2006 9:30:09 PM

    KresoF1
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    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    "I really don't understand why people are that much against it, maybe they should testdrive it first."
    TIP is only FIVE speed, reason No.1, even Porsche is claiming that manual version(with optional LSD) is faster around ANY track(you will see it in Sport Auto!), reason No.2, and some other like...
    Total driver control. You simply can not do that with TIP version, whatever you say it is not fully possible.
    And some people like to change gears!
    Let me tell you completely honestly if Porsche made TIP with 6 speeds, alu paddles for shifting gears(like new SL 55 AMG) and if LSD option was available for this TIP I would go for it!! But, not for TIP in present version, networked system or not.
    BTW, why then new 997 GT2 will be manual only with standard LSD If TIP is such(you said track also) monster??

    Jul 2, 2006 9:38:51 PM

    W211
    Pilot
    W211
    Loc:
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Thanks for the great writeup RC. I'm glad I picked the tip.

    Jul 2, 2006 9:45:50 PM

    OuTLaW_Rules
    Co-Pilot
    OuTLaW_Rules
    Loc: UAE, Dubai
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    Reply to: W211

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Oooh God, CANT WAIT !

    Jul 2, 2006 10:06:09 PM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Thanks for sharing the experience.

    Who knows just how perfect the 997TT/S will be?

    Maybe next time a slightly moded Z06 might appear.

    Glad you had a good time and good weather.

    Jul 2, 2006 10:10:16 PM

    dhayek Offline
    Rennteam Master
    dhayek
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    Reply to: OuTLaW_Rules

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    great writting rc..i talked to the dealer about the overboost anomaly ,his car has the same anomaly,he agreed like me that it could be a tiptronic thing, so we agreed to meet tomorrow to test 2 tip car and 2 manual cars to confirm if its a tip hidden feature...

    Jul 2, 2006 10:20:53 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    great writting rc..i talked to the dealer about the overboost anomaly ,his car has the same anomaly,he agreed like me that it could be a tiptronic thing, so we agreed to meet tomorrow to test 2 tip car and 2 manual cars to confirm if its a tip hidden feature...



    Cool! Can't wait for the results!

    Jul 2, 2006 10:34:17 PM

    xandi911
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    xandi911
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So, is your overboost "bug" an anomaly, or did the other car have that too?



    CF's car was going as good as mine, no difference. And yes, his car has the "anomaly" too, maybe this really is a Tiptronic thing...or the fact that both cars are from a press pool.


    you told that the tip is a hell.. but there was a MANUAL in the test? it stays behind? someone has a 997TT manual to confirm if it has the same 1.1 bar at high speeds?

    Jul 3, 2006 12:14:09 AM

    ADias
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    ADias
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:... TIP is only FIVE speed, reason No.1...



    WHY do you say that? The number of speeds in a gearbox is determined by the torque/power of the motor and the drag coefficient/max speed desired. The TT is perfectly suited with 5 speeds on the tip and would be fine with 5 speeds on the manual.

    The TT is not a low-powered econobox... those need more gears. In the future there may be a six speed tip or 6-speed DSG, but believe me, you will gain nothing with the 6th cog, and it will only be there for marketing reasons. Understand now?

    Jul 3, 2006 12:48:52 AM

    Hurst
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    Reply to: ADias

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:... TIP is only FIVE speed, reason No.1...



    WHY do you say that? The number of speeds in a gearbox is determined by the torque/power of the motor and the drag coefficient/max speed desired. The TT is perfectly suited with 5 speeds on the tip and would be fine with 5 speeds on the manual.

    The TT is not a low-powered econobox... those need more gears. In the future there may be a six speed tip or 6-speed DSG, but believe me, you will gain nothing with the 6th cog, and it will only be there for marketing reasons. Understand now?



    From someone who drives a low power econobox with 6 speeds, I have to disagree.

    The shorter gear ratios in the 6speed lend increased accelleration in the higher range. This is important for those European buyers who tend to see a lot of 200+kmph driving and this is why the manual, by all processes of mathematics/physics, should pull away from a tip from 200-300kmph if they both start on equal footing (not to mention the minute loss of power via the torque converter).

    Jul 3, 2006 2:52:10 AM

    Ron (Houston)M
    Rennteam Moderator
    Ron (Houston)
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Excellent report RC . Can't wait for rennteam gathering .

    Jul 3, 2006 4:03:51 AM

    ADias
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    ADias
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    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Quote:
    Hurst said:... From someone who drives a low power econobox with 6 speeds, I have to disagree.



    Small engines with less flat torque curves do require 6, 7 gears or CVTs. The Turbo does not. Apples and oranges.

    Quote:
    ...(not to mention the minute loss of power via the torque converter).



    The Porsche tip's torque converter only affects 1st gear, no other gear.

    Jul 3, 2006 5:08:35 AM

    Super DariusM
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    Reply to: ADias

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Thanks for the Report Christian..

    next year i hope to can be there,with you

    Jul 3, 2006 6:05:20 AM

    bostonmini
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    wow, so a 997 tip is faster than a STOCK Z...finally that issue is put to rest:) what a great car, RC, I see ur future; and its a trip to the factory for a power upgrade (S/x50)....

    Jul 3, 2006 7:06:02 AM

    polo
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    Reply to: bostonmini

    Re: AFTER the Rennteam Summer Party (Second Day)

    Thx for the report RC, it must have been a great gathering, comparing all this great cars must also have been a blast!
     
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