Crown

hunterone:

1.70g in the Corners is insane. Its all about the Tires on this car. The same tyre is also used on Corvette Z06 so now its clear why its that fast. The MPSC2 ZP is above Trofeo R Grip Level.

Great tires indeed. LOL Not drivable in the wet (probably one reason Sport Auto stopped that wet pavement testing in the Supertest), very likely only a few millimeters of profile height which lets the tire last 3000 km only, maybe 500 only on the track. LOL I bet that  most GT R will be delivered to customers with normal road tires.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Porker:

You lose friends because you get too competitive, but I have to grow up? 

This is in my blood, I can't help it but lately, I try to adapt rather than act. Being competitive is healthy but not desirable if your friends aren't up to it. Well, friends come and go, family stays. I guess this is the most important lesson I learned.

I simply said, join us on a trackday. Not meaning to say 'I'm faster than you'. Simply wanting to state, come and join us on a trackday instead of praising yourself to heaven online?

Yeah, right. Just a simple track day. LOL Like that Black Forest drive we had many years ago when some so called "buddies" tried to make me crash my car because I bragged about my driving. Found out later when one of the drivers got drunk and "confessed". Then there was that German 924 driver who stalked(!) me by waiting for me at my business to try to find out where I live. I lost him in a curve where he lost control and hit a sidewalk. I was in a Cayenne (955) Turbo. Later on, when I told this story on the internet, he started to threaten me and I had to call the police.

Listen, maybe you're a nice guy but I'm not here to make friends. IF I make friends, I am happy but I have so little time at my hand, I am not looking for them. Especially not on the internet. I will however join a RT meet whenever possible but only with others I know personally coming and in a "controlled" environment.

Call me paranoid but I have my experience with weirdos (not saying that you're one of them, please don't misunderstand).

I am the most honest guy you'll ever met but people don't like honesty, they like to be pampered and lied to. Not my style, I always say what I think. Some people actually appreciate it (not my wife though LOL).

RC : sometimes I don't understand in what kind of world you live in or you think surrounds you ? 

After all the problem is maybe you , not the others. 

I read no " challenge " or " defiance " into ' s Porker suggestion to meet on a track. Just something so instead of talking theroriticaly / internet   , it could be done in reality. With no challenge. Just as gentlemen drivers. Maybe you get sucked way too much into everything is a fight and there needs to be a winner / looser. 

I met quite a few people from RT . I only had good experiences. Many of them I saw on a track ( Porker for instance ) all are gentlemen . Some are fast , some are faster, some care more then others about being the fastest but all took it all with a grain of salt , had good humour around it and seem to be doing it for please and fun and not " to be the best " 

we all know we are joy the best. Just amateur sports car drivers who love to track our cars. Of course there are sometimes the odds out during these events that have a knife between their teeth and will do anything to be in front. 

I awoid those . And for sure Bluelines , Dave , Porker , Dan , Achim , Easy Rider were none of that kind. 

You would be surprised how nice all these members are, and specially Blueline and Porker 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

hunterone:

1.70g in the Corners is insane. Its all about the Tires on this car. The same tyre is also used on Corvette Z06 so now its clear why its that fast. The MPSC2 ZP is above Trofeo R Grip Level.

1.7G sustained or instantaneous? That's the key. 

Trofeo R can do higher sustained Gs. I saw it first hand today at my track. 

Friend of mine was running a GT3RS on Trofeo Rs today, lightning quick around the track. he was lapping around 2:16s. He gained 2 seconds switch from the stock Cup2s. I was in my F12, on stock P Zeros. I have spikes of 1.4Gs but 1.2G sustained. And I was a good 12 seconds behind him doing 2:28s. I did 2:18s in my GT4 ClubSport. 

Yes he is a very very good driver, runs in the Ferrari Challenge series.

Later in the afternoon he switched to a Radical and promptly set the lap record at 2:02. A .1 991 Cup car that ran last season's GT3 Cup was on hand today doing testing driven by pros on Yokohama slicks was doing 2:06s.

Ambient temperature was 10 degrees. 

RC:

Porker:

You lose friends because you get too competitive, but I have to grow up? 

This is in my blood, I can't help it but lately, I try to adapt rather than act. Being competitive is healthy but not desirable if your friends aren't up to it. Well, friends come and go, family stays. I guess this is the most important lesson I learned.

I simply said, join us on a trackday. Not meaning to say 'I'm faster than you'. Simply wanting to state, come and join us on a trackday instead of praising yourself to heaven online?

Yeah, right. Just a simple track day. LOL Like that Black Forest drive we had many years ago when some so called "buddies" tried to make me crash my car because I bragged about my driving. Found out later when one of the drivers got drunk and "confessed". Then there was that German 924 driver who stalked(!) me by waiting for me at my business to try to find out where I live. I lost him in a curve where he lost control and hit a sidewalk. I was in a Cayenne (955) Turbo. Later on, when I told this story on the internet, he started to threaten me and I had to call the police.

Listen, maybe you're a nice guy but I'm not here to make friends. IF I make friends, I am happy but I have so little time at my hand, I am not looking for them. Especially not on the internet. I will however join a RT meet whenever possible but only with others I know personally coming and in a "controlled" environment.

Call me paranoid but I have my experience with weirdos (not saying that you're one of them, please don't misunderstand).

I am the most honest guy you'll ever met but people don't like honesty, they like to be pampered and lied to. Not my style, I always say what I think. Some people actually appreciate it (not my wife though LOL).

From an invitation to join us on a Rennteam trackday, to stories about people stalking/threatening you because of your superior driving.

We better stop the discussion here, and go our separate ways. 

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

I guess Switzerland is on another planet?! 😉 (or you guys were just lucky to meet only nice people so far)

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Porker:

RC:

Porker:

You lose friends because you get too competitive, but I have to grow up? 

This is in my blood, I can't help it but lately, I try to adapt rather than act. Being competitive is healthy but not desirable if your friends aren't up to it. Well, friends come and go, family stays. I guess this is the most important lesson I learned.

I simply said, join us on a trackday. Not meaning to say 'I'm faster than you'. Simply wanting to state, come and join us on a trackday instead of praising yourself to heaven online?

Yeah, right. Just a simple track day. LOL Like that Black Forest drive we had many years ago when some so called "buddies" tried to make me crash my car because I bragged about my driving. Found out later when one of the drivers got drunk and "confessed". Then there was that German 924 driver who stalked(!) me by waiting for me at my business to try to find out where I live. I lost him in a curve where he lost control and hit a sidewalk. I was in a Cayenne (955) Turbo. Later on, when I told this story on the internet, he started to threaten me and I had to call the police.

Listen, maybe you're a nice guy but I'm not here to make friends. IF I make friends, I am happy but I have so little time at my hand, I am not looking for them. Especially not on the internet. I will however join a RT meet whenever possible but only with others I know personally coming and in a "controlled" environment.

Call me paranoid but I have my experience with weirdos (not saying that you're one of them, please don't misunderstand).

I am the most honest guy you'll ever met but people don't like honesty, they like to be pampered and lied to. Not my style, I always say what I think. Some people actually appreciate it (not my wife though LOL).

From an invitation to join us on a Rennteam trackday, to stories about people stalking/threatening you because of your superior driving.

We better stop the discussion here, and go our separate ways. 

This is my reality, so I guess you're a nice guy and had nothing bad in mind. Like always. You "invited" me because you have such a great sympathy for me, got it. LOL

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Guys this stupid. Kiss and make up.

FWIW, I don't think anyone on this site gives a rats ass who is a better driver or faster around the track (Nick, I am not referring to your post. I thought your discussion about real life situations using different tires was very informative.)

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

nberry:

I thought your discussion about real life situations using different tires was very informative.)

The argument of the current, or previous depending on ones' point of view, about the Cups vs Trofeo R was only an issue with the McLaren fanboys, they wanted everyone to believe that they are equal tires to justify the P1's performance.

On stock OEM compounds, the Trofeo R is clearly  stickier faster tire, it is a category above on the Cup2s, which in turn is a stickier tire than the P Zero Corsa but still within the same performance category. The regular P Zeros, which is on my F12 is another category below, together with the Pilot Super Sport. But the Super Sport is basically discontinued with a new version Super Sport 4S already out in the market.

But tire technology moves fast. Michelin now indeed have custom compound Cup2s which are at least on par with the Trofeo R if not faster, but Pirelli is not standing still, the newest P Zeros, PZ4, have moved up the game to be at least on par in performance with the 'previous' Corsa. Pirelli likely will release new versions of the Corsa and also new versions of the Trofeo R to restore the performance order as perviously stated:

Trofeo R (new) > Cup2 > Corsa (new) > Super Sport 4S > PZ4

nberry:

Guys this stupid. Kiss and make up.

FWIW, I don't think anyone on this site gives a rats ass who is a better driver or faster around the track (Nick, I am not referring to your post. I thought your discussion about real life situations using different tires was very informative.)

Especially since this is the internet and people don't really know each other personally. 

Why would I make up with people who enjoy provoking me. I could do the same but I outgrew this juvenile behavior for a very long time. I know that honesty never pays off and political correctness is mandatory in social interaction but to be frank, I give a rat's ass about what some internet strangers believe about me.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Very well said, Nick. Tire technology has indeed made huge advancements but this also means that people need to be very careful with tire choices, especially after they finished off their initial OEM tire set. Since manufacturers seem to adapt tires more and more to the specifications of their particular car, with the help of tire manufacturers, the tire choice has become an essential part of the driving experience and messing with these OEM setups never ends well.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Cup2 ZP > Trofeo R (new) > Cup2 > Corsa (new) > Super Sport 4S > P Zero (new) > Corsa (Old) > Super Sport > P Zero (old)

hunterone:

Cup2 ZP > Trofeo R (new) > Cup2 > Corsa (new) > Super Sport 4S > P Zero (new) > Corsa (Old) > Super Sport > P Zero (old)

Hmm no. 

The new Trofeo R is gonna be amazing. So specialized Cup2 will not hold a candle towards it. 

For comparison, a .1 991 GT3 on Cup2 tires was trying to pass me all day today, in addition to yesterday, he was on stock Cup2s. He can't. I was only on stock old P Zeros. He did gained a lot during the curvy slow sections, but the lap times still being a wash. 

Pirelli tires are being under rated. Trofeo Rs are only another planet compared with Cup2s. There is a reason why the Cup2s are called street tires capable for track duty while the Trofeo Rs are track tires capable of street duties. They are in a completely different category.

I saw the difference first hand again on the track today. The guy with the Trofeo R went out back to back with another GT3RS with Cup2s. Clean 2 seconds differences. Just as he stated before and this time he did it back 2 back on 2 exactly same spec car other than tires on our 3 miles track. And the Cup2s for the GT3RS are already stickier versions of the Cup2s than the ECO ones on the 918s.

Seriously, take off your McLaren glasses. 

And I already have a 720S on order, so I am not even remotely biased. 

--

I love the PZero PZ4 on my car, people really seem to underestimate Pirelli. Also, Michelin often gets more credit for their tires than they deserve. They make excellent winter tires though, even if I personally prefer Dunlop (winter tires).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Porker:

You lose friends because you get too competitive, but I have to grow up? 

This is in my blood, I can't help it but lately, I try to adapt rather than act. Being competitive is healthy but not desirable if your friends aren't up to it. Well, friends come and go, family stays. I guess this is the most important lesson I learned.

I simply said, join us on a trackday. Not meaning to say 'I'm faster than you'. Simply wanting to state, come and join us on a trackday instead of praising yourself to heaven online?

Yeah, right. Just a simple track day. LOL Like that Black Forest drive we had many years ago when some so called "buddies" tried to make me crash my car because I bragged about my driving. Found out later when one of the drivers got drunk and "confessed". Then there was that German 924 driver who stalked(!) me by waiting for me at my business to try to find out where I live. I lost him in a curve where he lost control and hit a sidewalk. I was in a Cayenne (955) Turbo. Later on, when I told this story on the internet, he started to threaten me and I had to call the police.

Listen, maybe you're a nice guy but I'm not here to make friends. IF I make friends, I am happy but I have so little time at my hand, I am not looking for them. Especially not on the internet. I will however join a RT meet whenever possible but only with others I know personally coming and in a "controlled" environment.

Call me paranoid but I have my experience with weirdos (not saying that you're one of them, please don't misunderstand).

I am the most honest guy you'll ever met but people don't like honesty, they like to be pampered and lied to. Not my style, I always say what I think. Some people actually appreciate it (not my wife though LOL).

Jezzzz sometimes you seem to leave in a different world with f..king weird people around you!!!. Those guys tried to crash your car in a simple car gathering  just because you said you´re  a good driver??????!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this real??? Not saying it ins´t, but hard to believe in such thing! All your neighbors are also very strange!!! I wish you better luck with people around you, they seem to mess really hard with your life... gosh, you can´t even buy your dream car because of them and because the way you think too 

--

J.Seven

I live in the same world as you but I seem to attract weirdos.  Probably because they feel the need to challenge me, for whatever reason. Have you ever seen somebody shot in front of you? It happens hundreds of times every single day on this planet, so just because you never had such an experience, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.

I get sometimes 10-20 phishing mails per day on my Rennteam account. Interesting: I once mentioned I have an Amex credit card and that day, I got at least a dozen Amex phishing mails. I know, pure coincidence. I mentioned my job and my business once and a couple of days later, I get weird phone calls from non-German phone numbers with business proposals. Best one was a proposal from an alleged Iranian to sell him (legal ) drugs through a Dubai pharmaceutical dealer, so he can sell this stuff to Iran. When I asked him how he "found" me, he told me that a mutual(?) friend with a very expensive sportscar collection recommended me. Yeah, right. LOL 

Maybe I should just shut up and don't tell you guys anything anymore, so I don't put myself into these stupid situations anymore where I have to explain myself (I only do that because I often get the feeling that some of you guys don't believe me but apparently it backfires).

Also, maybe I should start seriously moderating this forum and ban trouble makers, agents provocateurs and those who clearly have no car and are just here to do whatever they do. Believe it or not but I was always the one who was against banning anyone.

I always accepted freedom of speech and personalities/egos because I thought this adds to the value of this forum. I start to believe however that those who run this show shouldn't have to deal with sarcasm/irony addressed at them or even to explain themselves.

This stops now. Similar to politics, I will keep the discussions civil. Period. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

MKSGR:

KresoF1:

 

 

 

CG claims that car is extremly confidence inspiring on the limit and therefore much easier to drive on the limit then some competitors. Car is pure stock according to my Motorpresse friend and as you will see from forthcoming Supertest measured power is in order (at upper limit of legal limit) as well. 

Car is basically reingeneered version of original AMG GT S. 

So, your assumption is that Mercedes AMG can not do it and Porsche for example can? 

Or to put it on thin ice that CG and Sport Auto are on AMG pay list and are lying to the public? 

 

Kreso, I doubt it for the time being. Mercedes has a history of building underperforming sports cars and also a history of cheating the press... Based on this: yes, I doubt they can achieve something Porsche or Ferrari can achieve as they lack the expertise and the engineering know-how  Also, keep in mind that the GTR will only be available to customers in the second half o 2017. That also tells a lot. By definition (!) this car is a prototype and not (!) a production car. They do this as they will have more room to explain why the production car performs far less good than this press car.

Doing a Supertest now of a car that will hit the road in about 12 months... That and their history is all I need to know. I am thinking of the Nissan GTR in this context as well... Made for the stupid people who open their purse based on this kind of BS tactic 

Maybe it is time for a little wrap-up of what we know so far, approx. 6 months later:

- Sportauto confirmed that the test car had about 35hp more than the regular car (approx. 6% - that is illegal for road cars in the EU)

- The "special" Cup2 tire (all based on Sportauto quotes): costs approx. Euro 4000 per set, requires a special approval from the regulator on a car-by-car basis, is very dangerous in colder temperature, needs careful warming up that is even difficult on the track (!), has a "very narrow" performance window, is done after few laps (i.e. needs replacing then); also, AutoBild complains about the drivability of the car, claims it is peaky and a bit risky to drive with these tires on the track (!)

- With the "normal" Cup2 tires (that can be ordered officially on the web configurator) HHR lap time is 1s slower - on a percentage basis this would imply a NBR lap time of not 7.11 but only 7.25 (not so impressive any longer...)

- For comparison: the 991 GTS with the brand new PZero Corsa (that are better for daily use than the "normal" Cup2 on the GTR based on Sportauto) achieves a HHR time of 1.08 (vs. 1.074 of the GTR) - with approx 150hp less!

- 0-200 was just 10.3s with the Sportauto car - although this car has the above quoted 35hp more than regular customer cars, i.e. the car is underperforming in the straight line despite its massive surplus in hp output...

- CwxA is far worse than with the turbo s, for example: 0.78 vs. 0.64 - i.e. high-speed performance (above 200kph) will probably be worse than 0-200

In summary: the performance of the GTR seems mostly based on these fake tires. The rest of the car (including brake performance, acceleration) is beaten by all major competitors (turbo s, 488, etc.). If you order the GTR with the normal PZero (as you intend to use it also in daily situtations) the GTR probably also has a track performance worse than that of a regular turbo s.

Did anybody hear any news on the delivery situation in Germany, BTW?

 - taking all this in - and then compare "old" times with new achieved times in magazines like SA etc - the consumer is taken for big ride....

comparisons should only be made the same day with the same latest tires - for both cars - old and new....

Markus,

Remember what you claimed?

That SA cheated and lied.

Now, we know that SA did not cheat at all. They put absolutely all possible info in their Supertest.

If someone cheated, then it was AMG.

Yes, special CUP2 PZ tire is key for amazing lap time.

I was and always will defend SA.

KresoF1:

Markus,

Remember what you claimed?

That SA cheated and lied.

Now, we know that SA did not cheat at all. They put absolutely all possible info in their Supertest.

If someone cheated, then it was AMG.

Yes, special CUP2 PZ tire is key for amazing lap time.

I was and always will defend SA.

I disagree, Kreso.

They cheated and lied, indeed. Now (latest issue) they are trying to go back several steps. I consider it very poor journalism to publish the test last year without proper fact check / publishing the required information. They just published what was necessary (demanded) by AMG to allow for the press campaign. They left out all the rest. Very unlikely that this was a coincidence.

Sportauto published a test with a car that had excessive power (not mentioning this back then), with these strange tires (see infos above) (not mentioning the effect back then).

This is indeed all cheating the readers / potential customers 

The real product is very modest (to say the least) compared to what SportAuto wrote. If you get a customer car with regular PZero tires your new car will be not even at par with the competition. It will be just cheaper. 

Personally, the fact that SA accepted a rigged test test car with extra horsepower and cheating non production tires, and god knows what else it had in the setup, and did the test anyway and published the results like if it was a normal test (99% of people dont read the fine print after the fact)  reflects very poorly on SA and are basically necesary and knowing collaborators in this stunt by AMG.

What SA should have done is rejected the car and demand a normal spec car with normal cups2 tires and production setup, and then do the test. I dont trust SA anymore... They sold out.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

MKSGR:

MKSGR:

KresoF1:

 

 

 

CG claims that car is extremly confidence inspiring on the limit and therefore much easier to drive on the limit then some competitors. Car is pure stock according to my Motorpresse friend and as you will see from forthcoming Supertest measured power is in order (at upper limit of legal limit) as well. 

Car is basically reingeneered version of original AMG GT S. 

So, your assumption is that Mercedes AMG can not do it and Porsche for example can? 

Or to put it on thin ice that CG and Sport Auto are on AMG pay list and are lying to the public? 

 

Kreso, I doubt it for the time being. Mercedes has a history of building underperforming sports cars and also a history of cheating the press... Based on this: yes, I doubt they can achieve something Porsche or Ferrari can achieve as they lack the expertise and the engineering know-how  Also, keep in mind that the GTR will only be available to customers in the second half o 2017. That also tells a lot. By definition (!) this car is a prototype and not (!) a production car. They do this as they will have more room to explain why the production car performs far less good than this press car.

Doing a Supertest now of a car that will hit the road in about 12 months... That and their history is all I need to know. I am thinking of the Nissan GTR in this context as well... Made for the stupid people who open their purse based on this kind of BS tactic 

Maybe it is time for a little wrap-up of what we know so far, approx. 6 months later:

- Sportauto confirmed that the test car had about 35hp more than the regular car (approx. 6% - that is illegal for road cars in the EU)

- The "special" Cup2 tire (all based on Sportauto quotes): costs approx. Euro 4000 per set, requires a special approval from the regulator on a car-by-car basis, is very dangerous in colder temperature, needs careful warming up that is even difficult on the track (!), has a "very narrow" performance window, is done after few laps (i.e. needs replacing then); also, AutoBild complains about the drivability of the car, claims it is peaky and a bit risky to drive with these tires on the track (!)

- With the "normal" Cup2 tires (that can be ordered officially on the web configurator) HHR lap time is 1s slower - on a percentage basis this would imply a NBR lap time of not 7.11 but only 7.25 (not so impressive any longer...)

- For comparison: the 991 GTS with the brand new PZero Corsa (that are better for daily use than the "normal" Cup2 on the GTR based on Sportauto) achieves a HHR time of 1.08 (vs. 1.074 of the GTR) - with approx 150hp less!

- 0-200 was just 10.3s with the Sportauto car - although this car has the above quoted 35hp more than regular customer cars, i.e. the car is underperforming in the straight line despite its massive surplus in hp output...

- CwxA is far worse than with the turbo s, for example: 0.78 vs. 0.64 - i.e. high-speed performance (above 200kph) will probably be worse than 0-200

In summary: the performance of the GTR seems mostly based on these fake tires. The rest of the car (including brake performance, acceleration) is beaten by all major competitors (turbo s, 488, etc.). If you order the GTR with the normal PZero (as you intend to use it also in daily situtations) the GTR probably also has a track performance worse than that of a regular turbo s.

Did anybody hear any news on the delivery situation in Germany, BTW?

Don't know why you're calling them fake tires. They said you can order the tires, so who cares? You spec the tires and you get the car shown. What's the problem?

If you're buying a car for track performance, you put the track tires on it. Why would someone care about lap times and then put shitty pzeros on the car?

You guys just seem butt hurt still that you can buy an AMG that smokes everything else because of its tires, as if 90% of the performance gains in the latest Porsches aren't due to new tire compound lol.

noone1:

You guys just seem butt hurt still that you can buy an AMG that smokes everything else because of its tires, as if 90% of the performance gains in the latest Porsches aren't due to new tire compound lol.

Yes really butt hurt the 991 GTS with PZero Corsa does the same HHR time as the GTR with extreme tires and with 150HP more...  that must be it, ooooor maaaaybe its because some of us actually care how sportscars perform in real life instead of just how they look and do not like companies trying to fake real world performance with rigged test cars and unusable and dangerous tires for the street? 

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Personally, the fact that SA accepted a rigged test test car with extra horsepower and cheating non production tires, and god knows what else it had in the setup, and did the test anyway and published the results like if it was a normal test (99% of people dont read the fine print after the fact)  reflects very poorly on SA and are basically necesary and knowing collaborators in this stunt by AMG.

What SA should have done is rejected the car and demand a normal spec car with normal cups2 tires and production setup, and then do the test. I dont trust SA anymore... They sold out.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

 

I fully agree. Alternatively, they could have revealed the full story at the beginning. But then AMG marketing would not have been happy.

noone1:

 

Don't know why you're calling them fake tires. They said you can order the tires, so who cares? You spec the tires and you get the car shown. What's the problem?

If you're buying a car for track performance, you put the track tires on it. Why would someone care about lap times and then put shitty pzeros on the car?

You cannot spec the car with these tires. They are only available upon special request later (for Euro 4000). Then, in Germany, you need to go to your local TÜV (i.e. the authority for car matters) and they need to do a special procedure on your car that then allows you to install the tires. Also, the tires seem barely usable, even on the track (see my above quotes).

The only Cup tires you can spec the car with are those that produce significantly slower lap times (like 7.25 on NBR) 

noone1:

You guys just seem butt hurt still that you can buy an AMG that smokes everything else because of its tires, as if 90% of the performance gains in the latest Porsches aren't due to new tire compound lol.

If you read the above post you will realize that the GTR is in fact slower than most of its competitors.

Not with the "fast tire package" it isn't.

A 1:07.4 is not slow with the normal Cup tires. Nobody knows the NBR time with these tires. In addition, I guess the Crosa tire of the Porsche is also very new and seems to be exceptionally fast. Otherwise, Porsche would not have switched from Michelin to Pirelli.

The GTR is at least as fast or faster as a GT3 RS (without the special tires). We all knew from the beginning that the incredibly fast NBR time is due to special tire which was mentioned in the SA back then.

noone1:

Not with the "fast tire package" it isn't.

You should read the test (also AutoBild Sportscars). You need several laps on the track to make them usable and then they last for 3-5 rounds and are finished. This is nothing anybody will use (I already summarized on oricing and the other effort needed to get them onto your car). This is just a tool to create a nice sales pitch for the car. The car itself is pretty much average (compared to its competitors) as it turns out now.

Josef:

A 1:07.4 is not slow with the normal Cup tires. Nobody knows the NBR time with these tires. In addition, I guess the Crosa tire of the Porsche is also very new and seems to be exceptionally fast. Otherwise, Porsche would not have switched from Michelin to Pirelli.

The GTR is at least as fast or faster as a GT3 RS (without the special tires). We all knew from the beginning that the incredibly fast NBR time is due to special tire which was mentioned in the SA back then.

The 991 GTS on the new Corsas does 1.08 on the HHR with approx 150 hp less than the GTR. Just imagine what will happen if the new Corsa will be used on a turbo, not to speak of the Gt2Rs with about 200hp more... This is the franework the GTr needs to be compared with (based on AMG's own marketing, where they want to compare with the very best).