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Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
Thanks for posting, forget to do that yesterday. 
It is actually a pretty interesting comparison, they liked the Cayenne Turbo S much more in the handling/braking department but the ML63 AMG was faster, especially up to 200 kph (125 mph). In the lower speed ranges, the difference isn't that big.
Still: the ML63 AMG seems to deliver an impressive performance and it is aprox. 20000 Euro cheaper than the Turbo S. No doubt, Porsche needs to come up with the facelift (or second generation Cayenne, whatever they want to call it).
17.7 seconds are already 997 Carrera territory, pretty impressive ML63 performance. But in the lower speed ranges, the difference isn't that big and the Turbo S has the disadvantage of the much bigger weight. more than 2.5 tons, OUCH.
I drove the new ML (not the ML63 though) and it is a nice car but I liked the older ML more (design-wise). The other problem I see with the ML: it is too small inside. I wish Porsche would offer a GL63 AMG sooner or later, this could be my next car if Porsche doesn't deliver more bang for the buck. The Cayenne Turbo S is definetely too expensive.
It is actually a pretty interesting comparison, they liked the Cayenne Turbo S much more in the handling/braking department but the ML63 AMG was faster, especially up to 200 kph (125 mph). In the lower speed ranges, the difference isn't that big.
Still: the ML63 AMG seems to deliver an impressive performance and it is aprox. 20000 Euro cheaper than the Turbo S. No doubt, Porsche needs to come up with the facelift (or second generation Cayenne, whatever they want to call it).
17.7 seconds are already 997 Carrera territory, pretty impressive ML63 performance. But in the lower speed ranges, the difference isn't that big and the Turbo S has the disadvantage of the much bigger weight. more than 2.5 tons, OUCH.
I drove the new ML (not the ML63 though) and it is a nice car but I liked the older ML more (design-wise). The other problem I see with the ML: it is too small inside. I wish Porsche would offer a GL63 AMG sooner or later, this could be my next car if Porsche doesn't deliver more bang for the buck. The Cayenne Turbo S is definetely too expensive.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
Let me tell you my current power SUV favorite-new Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8!
6063ccm
426hp/6000rpm
569Nm/4600rpm
0-100km/h: 5.0s
Max: 250km/h
Weight: 2220kg
20" alu wheels
63690Euro(inc. Mwst in Germany) with NO options!!
DVD-navi and all other features are Standard!
6063ccm
426hp/6000rpm
569Nm/4600rpm
0-100km/h: 5.0s
Max: 250km/h
Weight: 2220kg
20" alu wheels
63690Euro(inc. Mwst in Germany) with NO options!!
DVD-navi and all other features are Standard!
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Let me tell you my current power SUV favorite-new Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8!
6063ccm
426hp/6000rpm
569Nm/4600rpm
0-100km/h: 5.0s
Max: 250km/h
Weight: 2220kg
20" alu wheels
63690Euro(inc. Mwst in Germany) with NO options!!
DVD-navi and all other features are Standard!
You'll be surprised to hear that I'm looking into a US SUV as the next family car. The Cayenne Turbo Powerkit is a dream to drive, to move the family in and to drive during bad weather (rain, snow, etc.). But it is waaaayyyy too expensive and I'm not willing to spend so much money for a family car again. NEVER EVER. So I think I'll move to another brand after the Cayenne is "finished" (sorry Porsche but 140000 Euro for a SUV is beyond my comprehension, especially since the "throttle lag" really annoys me each and every day). I'm also looking into a Mercedes GL63 if Mercedes ever plans to build such a car and I might not exclude that I'll go for an Audi RS6 stationwagon (next generation) instead of a SUV. I have lots of options, BMW is also coming up with a new X5, there is no need to hurry since I plan to keep our Cayenne at least for the next three years or so.
Yes, the SRT8 is a very interesting product and the price tag is even more interesting. But I think our next SUV will be a Cadillac Escalade or a Lincoln Navigator since a dealer for these cars just opened a very large dealership next to my house. And he can get the SRT8 too.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
I agree with you Christian! My brother is in same position as you are regarding CT with power kit... I am thinking about SRT8 for myself along side my forthcoming 997 turbo.
What do you think about Mercedes ML420CDI(306hp/700Nm) or BMW X3 3.0sd(282hp/580Nm) as alternative for Grand Cherokee SRT8?
What do you think about Mercedes ML420CDI(306hp/700Nm) or BMW X3 3.0sd(282hp/580Nm) as alternative for Grand Cherokee SRT8?
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
Just to offer a different perspective, all of this discussion is very interesting to someone who has been driving SUVs since before they were called SUVs. Way back then, the "S" stood for "sport," but that didn't mean the same as in "sports" car. The "sport" was supposed to refer to off-road capability. The "utility" was supposed to refer to the people- and cargo-carrying capacity. The category included mostly trucks modified to be more like Jeeps, like the Bronco and Blazer, and Jeeps modified to work more like trucks, like the Waggoneer. Nowadays, many vehicles called SUVs aren't really SUVs. What you guys are mostly talking about are really PUVs (performance utility vehicles) and what most of the SUV buyers are really getting is just a JUSW (jacked-up station wagon), because mom wants to be able to see over the hoods of the other JUSWs at the stoplight and dad wants something that looks cooler than the station wagon of his youth. I guess, in reality, what many CTT, CTT-PK, and CTT-S owners really want would be more accurately called an RFFJUSW (really frigging fast jacked-up station wagon), which would include the ML63 and the SRT8. Most Americans who really want the functionality of a bona fide SUV buy things like Yukons for a whole lot less money (which makes them worry a lot less about taking it out into the field or to the local lumber yard). For me, the great thing about the Cayenne is that, while reasonably fun for the 99% of the time that I spend on the road, it is capable of minor off-road use, and with the right tires, is capable of much more. It is, of course, way too expensive, as are current Land Rovers, Land Cruisers, etc. But it still is the optimal combination of capabilities for me. I'm sure the ML63 will be fast, and it sounds like it will be a bargain relative to the Cayenne. But will it have any real off-road capability or, as with the ML55 and SRT8, will that all be sacrificed for acceleration bragging rights? When it's time to replace my Cay, I may well not buy another, either, but I won't be replacing it with a PUV, a JUSW, or even a RFFJUSW. But, as I've often said, individual taste is a wonderful thing. 
Jul 2, 2006 2:09:57 AM
- charlieboy
- Junior
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- Loc: Bridge of the Death Star , United Kingdom
- Posts: 73, Gallery
- Registered on: May 20, 2005
- Reply to: KresoF1
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
Quote:
sigs said:
Just to offer a different perspective, all of this discussion is very interesting to someone who has been driving SUVs since before they were called SUVs. Way back then, the "S" stood for "sport," but that didn't mean the same as in "sports" car. The "sport" was supposed to refer to off-road capability. The "utility" was supposed to refer to the people- and cargo-carrying capacity. The category included mostly trucks modified to be more like Jeeps, like the Bronco and Blazer, and Jeeps modified to work more like trucks, like the Waggoneer. Nowadays, many vehicles called SUVs aren't really SUVs. What you guys are mostly talking about are really PUVs (performance utility vehicles) and what most of the SUV buyers are really getting is just a JUSW (jacked-up station wagon), because mom wants to be able to see over the hoods of the other JUSWs at the stoplight and dad wants something that looks cooler than the station wagon of his youth. I guess, in reality, what many CTT, CTT-PK, and CTT-S owners really want would be more accurately called an RFFJUSW (really frigging fast jacked-up station wagon), which would include the ML63 and the SRT8. Most Americans who really want the functionality of a bona fide SUV buy things like Yukons for a whole lot less money (which makes them worry a lot less about taking it out into the field or to the local lumber yard). For me, the great thing about the Cayenne is that, while reasonably fun for the 99% of the time that I spend on the road, it is capable of minor off-road use, and with the right tires, is capable of much more. It is, of course, way too expensive, as are current Land Rovers, Land Cruisers, etc. But it still is the optimal combination of capabilities for me. I'm sure the ML63 will be fast, and it sounds like it will be a bargain relative to the Cayenne. But will it have any real off-road capability or, as with the ML55 and SRT8, will that all be sacrificed for acceleration bragging rights? When it's time to replace my Cay, I may well not buy another, either, but I won't be replacing it with a PUV, a JUSW, or even a RFFJUSW. But, as I've often said, individual taste is a wonderful thing.
SIGS!!!!
Absolutely right! The "S" in the SUV is losing credibility. I am thankful to Porsche for making a true SUV, even if it is virtually never used that way.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
Always love those pics, GM
Now that I've passed the one-year mark and my Cay is no longer "new," it's time for a little off-road fun - as soon as I can decide on some decent 19" tires. I've given up on any N-rated prospects, so I guess I'll have to buy a new set of wheels, including a spare to clog up the cargo bay, with the best non-N 19" mud/snow/street tires I can find, and switch back and forth. If anyone has any suggestions, good experiences, or bad experiences, please pass along.
Now that I've passed the one-year mark and my Cay is no longer "new," it's time for a little off-road fun - as soon as I can decide on some decent 19" tires. I've given up on any N-rated prospects, so I guess I'll have to buy a new set of wheels, including a spare to clog up the cargo bay, with the best non-N 19" mud/snow/street tires I can find, and switch back and forth. If anyone has any suggestions, good experiences, or bad experiences, please pass along.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
I'm using the Continental Contact M&S (not Sport Contact) and have been very pleased, and it is N rated in the 18" size. It seems to be a very durable tire and I have used it in some extreme off-road excursions. It was only in the steepest of grades that I have wished I had a more aggressive tread pattern (and a locking rear differential ) for a little extra traction. Even on those steep grades the traction control is very effective if you can keep some momentum going. I've climbed grades that Jeep Wranglers struggled with. 
And, when you get back on the pavement, you have a relatively quiet highway tire that is rated for 150 mph. So, I'm happy with this tire. It's a compromise, but one I can live with.
) for a little extra traction. Even on those steep grades the traction control is very effective if you can keep some momentum going. I've climbed grades that Jeep Wranglers struggled with. And, when you get back on the pavement, you have a relatively quiet highway tire that is rated for 150 mph. So, I'm happy with this tire. It's a compromise, but one I can live with.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
Quote:
sigs said:
I'm sure the ML63 will be fast, and it sounds like it will be a bargain relative to the Cayenne.
I just read over at rennlist that the base price for the ML63 will be $85,500. Not the bargain some expected.
Impressive straight line performance, but so far what I have read says it doesn't handle as well as a Cayenne. And no real off-road capabilities.
MBUSA decided to load up the ML63 with just about every option available. The price difference between the ML500 and the ML63 is huge. No other AMG in the MBUSA lineup has this big of price gap between the top of the line model and the AMG version. The previous ML55 sold for around $68k.
Phil
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
You'll be surprised to hear that I'm looking into a US SUV as the next family car. The Cayenne Turbo Powerkit is a dream to drive, to move the family in and to drive during bad weather (rain, snow, etc.). But it is waaaayyyy too expensive and I'm not willing to spend so much money for a family car again. NEVER EVER. So I think I'll move to another brand after the Cayenne is "finished"
The Cayenne is too much money if you must have the Turbo. If the purpose is to have a family hauler, all you really need is the S. At that level, it already beats the American competition, and provides better value for the dollar. Of course, to get the most value out of your car, you'd be running it well into the 6 digit mileage, as Porsches are well capable of. Of course, if you're not having fun with your Cayenne, then that's a different story.
Re: Cayenne Turbo S against ML63AMG-Auto Zeitung comparison
Quote:
GM Austin said:
I'm using the Continental Contact M&S (not Sport Contact) and have been very pleased, and it is N rated in the 18" size.
Thanks very much for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I have to have 19"ers to fit over the PK brakes and Conti's website lists some Contacts in 19 that will be available in "summer 2006," but the load/speed rating is only 103H (the 255/15R18s are rated at 109V). However, it also doesn't list this tire as M&S rated, so maybe I'm looking at the wrong tire.
It does list the ContiTrac SUV as M&S rated, but it only goes to 17". Am I missing something here? Sorry to all those who find this way off topic. If it goes on long, I'll start a new thread.
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