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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    Jun 30, 2006 12:25:09 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59581, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: 997 Turbo 7.40 NBR

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Christian, any idea why Porsche didn't introduce a dedicated sport chassis for the Turbo, such as the -20 mm in the Carrera S?



    PASM is the future, look at the GT3 and even GT3 RS. For my taste, the sport setting of the 997 Turbo PASM is a little bit too "shaky", I think the "dampening" is a bit too soft for this stiff setup. Maybe they did it because the too stiff setup made the car jump on certain tracks (like the Nordschleife), don't know. But I found myself driving most of the time with Sport Chrono ON but the PASM sport setting OFF.

    Jun 30, 2006 12:32:50 PM

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
    Posts: 7856, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo 7.40 NBR

    BTW, your setup "Sport Chrono ON but the PASM sport setting OFF." is the way to achive fastest time on Nordschleife...

    Jun 30, 2006 5:14:55 PM

    bluelines
    Rennteam VIP
    bluelines
    Loc: Argovia , Switzerland
    Posts: 11655, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 29, 2005
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo 7.40 NBR

    Quote:
    RC said:
    It requires a certain "adaptation" to Tip...




    Quote:
    RC said:
    Regarding Tip, I want to say it again: a non-pro driver will always be faster with Tip...



    So what you are trying to say is that a non-pro driver will be faster with Tip than manual... but a pro-Tip driver will be faster than a pro-manual driver?

    Jun 30, 2006 9:01:10 PM

    355Spider
    Co-Pilot
    355Spider
    Loc: Dallas, Texas , United States
    Posts: 277, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 27, 2006
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: 997 Turbo 7.40 NBR

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Would you guys PLEASE stop this BS!
    Regarding the 997 Turbo Manual and Tip: so the Tip was 3 seconds slowlier on the Nordschleife...a 20km track. And very likely driven by a non-Tip used driver (Horst v. Saurma). Sorry, Kreso but...I'm IMPRESSED. I actually thought that a pro would do around 5 seconds better with manual.




    If 3 seconds are not considered much on the NBR the new 997TT (Tip and manual) is a complete disaster. Why?

    The old 996TTS with x73 would most likely do 7:50-7:52 (as compared to 7:56 of a an old 420hp TT with standard suspension and old tires from the year 2000).

    If the new 997TT Manual with SC and LSD should do the NBR in 7:49 on streeet tires this is just 1-3 seconds faster than in case of the 996TTSx73!

    By your your above definiton you would basically agree that the new 997TT represents no (significant) track performance improvement at all

    P.S.: Maybe the car will be much faster than 7:49 in the (relevant) SuperTest. Who knows If not, we apparently share the same view of the "improvements" the new TT offers



    I second that. The 997 Turbo manual/LSD time needs to very close to 7.40 to be credible.

    I am having lunch in at the Ring now (on my way to work). The track opens at 14.15. I just have time for six laps (one tank of gas) before heading on to another country with passengers and luggage.

    Only a Turbo can beat F430s on the Ring and then drive off with the family in comfort.



    I'd seriously like to see a 996TT X50 with LSD and X73 tested at the 'Ring. I'm pretty sure it would match 7:50.


    I would like to see a Z06 on sticky tires. If good tires are worth 8-10 seconds that would put the Z06 in Carrera GT land.

    Jun 30, 2006 9:20:31 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: 355Spider

    Re: 997 Turbo 7.40 NBR

    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Would you guys PLEASE stop this BS!
    Regarding the 997 Turbo Manual and Tip: so the Tip was 3 seconds slowlier on the Nordschleife...a 20km track. And very likely driven by a non-Tip used driver (Horst v. Saurma). Sorry, Kreso but...I'm IMPRESSED. I actually thought that a pro would do around 5 seconds better with manual.




    If 3 seconds are not considered much on the NBR the new 997TT (Tip and manual) is a complete disaster. Why?

    The old 996TTS with x73 would most likely do 7:50-7:52 (as compared to 7:56 of a an old 420hp TT with standard suspension and old tires from the year 2000).

    If the new 997TT Manual with SC and LSD should do the NBR in 7:49 on streeet tires this is just 1-3 seconds faster than in case of the 996TTSx73!

    By your your above definiton you would basically agree that the new 997TT represents no (significant) track performance improvement at all

    P.S.: Maybe the car will be much faster than 7:49 in the (relevant) SuperTest. Who knows If not, we apparently share the same view of the "improvements" the new TT offers



    I second that. The 997 Turbo manual/LSD time needs to very close to 7.40 to be credible.

    I am having lunch in at the Ring now (on my way to work). The track opens at 14.15. I just have time for six laps (one tank of gas) before heading on to another country with passengers and luggage.

    Only a Turbo can beat F430s on the Ring and then drive off with the family in comfort.



    I'd seriously like to see a 996TT X50 with LSD and X73 tested at the 'Ring. I'm pretty sure it would match 7:50.


    I would like to see a Z06 on sticky tires. If good tires are worth 8-10 seconds that would put the Z06 in Carrera GT land.



    I doubt it. The time hasn't been verified by independent magazines and we still have no information on whether the lap was from a standstill or a flying lap, the type of tyres used, and many other variables. Same with Porsche's times. They may be faster than those of Sport Auto, but they just can't be relied on.

    Jun 30, 2006 10:19:16 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 Turbo 7.40 NBR

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Regarding the 996 Turbo S with X73: according to one of our sources, it is merely 2 seconds faster than the 996 Turbo on the Nordschleife. I know, I know, people would want to hear a better time but apparently X73 isn't that of an advantage on the Nordschleife, so just the additional power helps the car to be faster. This would mean 7:54 with HvS at the steering wheel.



    You forgot to subtract another 2 seconds or so for the powerkit (450hp). And maybe current tire trechnology makes the car another second or two faster than in 2000.

    Calculation: 7:56 minus 2s (x73) minus 2s (x50) minus 2s (tires) = 7:50

    If the 997TT manual with LSD and SC now does 7:49 the improvement is just one second I cannot see any progress here. In contrast, the suspension of the 997TT seems to be rather poor given that the car has 30 additional hp but gains only one second...

    BTW: All available German magazine tests have criticized the 997TT suspension setup. Too much oversteer, too difficult to control at the limits. Probably this is the reason why the 997TT demonstrates such poor performance on the NBR?

    Anyhow, let's wait for the SportAuto SuperTest. Maybe the 997TT does the NBR in 7:45 or so. Then everything would be OK. If not, well...

    Jun 30, 2006 10:38:06 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 Turbo 7.40 NBR

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Regarding the 996 Turbo S with X73: according to one of our sources, it is merely 2 seconds faster than the 996 Turbo on the Nordschleife. I know, I know, people would want to hear a better time but apparently X73 isn't that of an advantage on the Nordschleife, so just the additional power helps the car to be faster. This would mean 7:54 with HvS at the steering wheel.



    You forgot to subtract another 2 seconds or so for the powerkit (450hp). And maybe current tire trechnology makes the car another second or two faster than in 2000.

    Calculation: 7:56 minus 2s (x73) minus 2s (x50) minus 2s (tires) = 7:50

    If the 997TT manual with LSD and SC now does 7:49 the improvement is just one second I cannot see any progress here. In contrast, the suspension of the 997TT seems to be rather poor given that the car has 30 additional hp but gains only one second...

    BTW: All available German magazine tests have criticized the 997TT suspension setup. Too much oversteer, too difficult to control at the limits. Probably this is the reason why the 997TT demonstrates such poor performance on the NBR?

    Anyhow, let's wait for the SportAuto SuperTest. Maybe the 997TT does the NBR in 7:45 or so. Then everything would be OK. If not, well...



    Like RC said, the Sport mode is next to useless. So why not make a dedicated -20 mm suspension? The C2S was faster with it around the 'Ring. I also don't see why the 996 Turbo wouldn't profit from the X73 Let's say minus two seconds from the X73, which equals 7:54, minus two from the extra power, which makes it 7:52, and 3 seconds from the LSD and newer tyres. That would make for 7:49. But maybe I'm just getting it wrong.
     
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