Crown

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nberry said:
True to your word a very objective review. I am glad you pointed out the power of the car and the need to be vigilant in drivng in a spirited fashion with it.

I believe for the money, the perf. it provides with Porsche engineering built into it makes it a desireable car for someone who wants a daily driving car with unmatched perf.

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Bending said:
RC, is the TIP in automatic mode still starting in 2nd from standstill unless you select the first gear via the buttons?

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RC said:

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Bending said:
RC, is the TIP in automatic mode still starting in 2nd from standstill unless you select the first gear via the buttons?

As far as I remember, yes. I tried manual mode too, first gear start-off, Sport Chrono active, even PSM turned off. Same thing, no improvement. I still hope that engineer is right about the fuzzy logic of the gearbox black box. This is actually the only thing which really annoys me regarding Tip on the 997 Turbo. But I still would stay with Tip, simply because when the car is moving, the Tip allows me to keep both hands on the steering wheel all the time, doing crazy stuff with my Turbo. I can't give you examples (who knows who reads this... ) but with having to shift with my right hand, it would be impossible. The only thing we need to clarify is if Tip is slowlier in the 200-300 kph range compared to manual. After seeing today how fast the car went up to 300 kph, I still have my doubts.

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Crash said:

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nberry said:
True to your word a very objective review. I am glad you pointed out the power of the car and the need to be vigilant in drivng in a spirited fashion with it.

I believe for the money, the perf. it provides with Porsche engineering built into it makes it a desireable car for someone who wants a daily driving car with unmatched perf.

Nick, did somebody hit you on the head?
Anyway, nice to see you can give props where they are due .

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atomic80 said:
RC, it sounds like your impressions with the Tip pretty much mirrors my own. I was not impressed with the Tip and this was with a non-Sport Chrono car. I felt that there was too much of a lag for me to efficiently harness the power of the car especially when the going gets tight during hard cornering. I also don't remember the exhaust note being all that impressive in the Tip version either especially when flying down the Autobahn.

However, on the other hand, with the manual version I did find the exhaust sound to be slightly deeper in note. I didn't find either one to be as impressive as my old M5 with the Dinan exhaust. Now that car had an exhaust note that I could listen to all day long.

Your impressions also of the Turbo's handling mirrors my own. Very light on it's feet. I had fun cornering the car hard in the wet and in the dry. I found that it was easier to maintain the power efficiently with the manual version. With the Tip, it was difficult to downshift efficiently because the buttons were on the steering wheel and I couldn't use those when turning the wheels fast. However, I could downshift easily with the manual version while at the same time turning the steering wheel. A much better combination, IMHO. I'm not sure why Porsche did not have the foresight to at least allow manual shifting with the Tiptronic shift knob. Definitely something they should do sometime soon. Hopefully the PDK will have paddle shifting or even allow shifting with the shift handle.

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CF said:
After 1800 km I definately feel a change in the Tiptronic compared to when I had 600-1000 km.
It's much better now, shifts more aggressively and works like a charm.
The whole car feels different, even the sound is better.

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RC said:

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trip said:
I thought I read on one of Atomic80's posts that the exhaust note sounded more subdued on tip than on manual cars. This would make sense since most 6spd owners have not had as many complaints about the sound. I wonder if this could be the case.

I doubt it. The sound is the same but of course it sounds different because with manual, you shift different. The Tip upshifts very early, especially when Sport Chrono isn't turned on. Another thing is actually using Sport Chrono itself. Since you get more throttle with a shorter throttle "way", the sound is different too. Difficult to explain in English, sorry.

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SFR said:
I think we need clarification what people define as turbo lag. Is it the slight lag between stepping on the gas and getting the full boost (throttle response) or the fact that the turbines don't spool fast enough to creative a boost at lower revs so that the engine works/feels like it's normally aspirated until a certain rev is hit. I always thought turbo lag was the latter.

First post btw, great board!

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Turbo Al said:

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SFR said:
I think we need clarification what people define as turbo lag. Is it the slight lag between stepping on the gas and getting the full boost (throttle response) or the fact that the turbines don't spool fast enough to creative a boost at lower revs so that the engine works/feels like it's normally aspirated until a certain rev is hit. I always thought turbo lag was the latter.

First post btw, great board!

Welcome aboard SFR.

Turbo lag to me is the reality that there will always be SOME lagtime (no matter how miniscule) for the turbocharger to operate, since the exhaust gas needs to be procesed through the system from the turbine impeller to the compressor sides for increased air and fuel for combustion and thus increased power output. An intercooler can further add potential lag. Even something as seemingly trivial as the length, diameter and angling of the hoses used to connect the engine and turbochargers and intercoolers together I believe can influence lag.

So even in a VTG setup with the guide vanes "closed" and with high circumferential gas velocity-and thus high charging pressure and high turbine output, there still is some lag-at least when "lag" means the time it takes for boost to increase from 0 to xxx psi/bar. As boost increases, and power/torque increases, this is felt by the driver (and their nervous passengers ) as thrust even though the driver feels the thrust after even a tiny delay after pressing on the throttle.

While the 997TT T-lag may be shorter than on the 996TT, it will still exist. But fortunately for all of us turbo fans, the payoff is the boost-and therefore power increment-for a fixed engine displacement.

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RC said:
12. motorcycle riders started to greet me. First, I thought it was just a mistake but I met around 20 bikes, mostly superbikes and half of them greeted me. Seems I'm driving in a different car league now.
13. I already have dozends of finger prints on my car, a stop at the fuel station made me feel like Brad Pitt among a group of teenage schoolgirls. Never spent that much time at a fuel station to answer questions.
14. two cars almost reared me, thanks god I was looking in the rear view mirror. Others tried to keep up or came alongside to take pictures with cameras, camera phones, etc. Unbelievable

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RC said:

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trip said:
So do you plan to cure the sound deficiency? I'm hoping Europipe will come up with a good system including a Loud/Quiet switch. Glad you felt the steering was so sharp and car handled like 997s, that's great news. Thanks for the review.

I try to stay away from aftermarket exhaust systems as long as I can, especially since I hope hat Porsche is coming up with something decent. But the sound is very very disappointing. I heard two early prototypes and they sounded awsome, so it can't be a technical limitation, more of a legal limitation. However, the car is THAT bad in sound (HORRIBLE!!!), that I suspect that Porsche did it by purpose. My wife's vacuum cleaner sounds ten times better than my Turbo. I still have hopes that my car is too new and there is still a lot of stuff in the exhaust which has to burn off first. But I doubt it is going to be much better. Porsche NEEDS to come up with a sport exhaust for this car, they can't leave it this way. NO WAY!

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RC said:
1. turbo lag still exists, definetely better than 996 Turbo
2. Tiptronic S requires a different driving/acceleration style, needs adaptation, may be frustrating at first
3. Tiptronic S works great with Sport Chrono active but requires a different driving/throttle style (compared to manual) to profit from it
4. Tiptronic S launch from standstill has been "de-tuned", it isn't as spontaneous as it was "before" if you fully press the throttle
5. as soon as the car moves and the boost kicks in, the car becomes a weapon, very dangerous for unexperienced drivers
6. car feels lights, same feel as 997 Carrera S but Turbo tends to more curve "hungry", it "turns" into the curve, a very dynamic and sporty drive feel but may pose a challenge for non-experienced drivers
7. steering feels almost same as 997 Carrera S, incl. the "lightiness", demanding a careful and experienced driver at the limit since the steering works very "sharp"
8. PASM sport setting too harsh, normal setting too comfortable but surprisingly you can be very fast with it
9. engine/exhaust sound is HORRIBLE, absolutely HORRIBLE. I would actually ask Porsche if they forgot to put an engine to the car if there wouldn't be that phenomenal boost. I really don't understand how Porsche can sell a 911 Turbo sportscar icon with that kind of sound, absolutely pathetic. No matter what rev range or what speed, there is no enjoyable exhaust/engine sound available.
10. no real understeer but heavy oversteer provocable, unexperienced drivers should be careful because the rear really starts dancing and it slides much faster than on the "old" 996 Turbo
11. fuel consumption around 16 l/100 km when driving at normal speeds, around 18 l with playing the throttle and around 20 litres at full power usage. Didn't get it below 16 l.
12. motorcycle riders started to greet me. First, I thought it was just a mistake but I met around 20 bikes, mostly superbikes and half of them greeted me. Seems I'm driving in a different car league now.
13. I already have dozends of finger prints on my car, a stop at the fuel station made me feel like Brad Pitt among a group of teenage schoolgirls. Never spent that much time at a fuel station to answer questions.
14. two cars almost reared me, thanks god I was looking in the rear view mirror. Others tried to keep up or came alongside to take pictures with cameras, camera phones, etc. Unbelievable.
15. PCCB brake is out of this world, can't say how much I love it, probably 30% of the fun with this car.
16. Tiptronic S as good as I expected, however a little disappointment with starting off from standstill. This can be "fixed" with keeping the left foot on the brake and accelerating up to 5000 rpm, at the same time releasing the brake suddenly and fully pressing the throttle then. Works like a charm, car goes off like a rocket but I had a different experience a couple of months ago and I'm sad it hasn't stayed that way.

All impressions with Sport Chrono activated!!!

If you have questions, I can answer them now. A full review will be available in around one to two weeks.

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RC said:

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TulsaTurbo said:
Christian,

I have a July 3 build date for a 997TT with Tip , do you have any regrets getting the Tip versus the manual?

At first, yes. I was almost crying, not kidding. I was used to my wifes Boxster S Tiptronic and I remembered another Tip on a Turbo where the car went off like a rocket from standstill. My car was different. But now, I'm very happy with my decision, no regrets whatsoever. I already did a few things with this car I could have never done with manual (because I needed both hands on the steering wheel ). However, like I said in my short "review": if you're used to manual or used to a Tip on a normally aspirated car, you have to change your throttle style as weird as this may sound. Tip owners may understand what I mean. What I just LOVE about the new Tip setup: the "Fast Back" function, it works like a charm.

You have to get used to the Tip on the Turbo, it takes a few days of playing around with the throttle foot but as soon as you catch the point, you're set. A lot of fun.

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RC said:

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TulsaTurbo said:
Christian,

I have a July 3 build date for a 997TT with Tip , do you have any regrets getting the Tip versus the manual?

At first, yes. I was almost crying, not kidding. I was used to my wifes Boxster S Tiptronic and I remembered another Tip on a Turbo where the car went off like a rocket from standstill. My car was different. But now, I'm very happy with my decision, no regrets whatsoever. I already did a few things with this car I could have never done with manual (because I needed both hands on the steering wheel ). However, like I said in my short "review": if you're used to manual or used to a Tip on a normally aspirated car, you have to change your throttle style as weird as this may sound. Tip owners may understand what I mean. What I just LOVE about the new Tip setup: the "Fast Back" function, it works like a charm.

You have to get used to the Tip on the Turbo, it takes a few days of playing around with the throttle foot but as soon as you catch the point, you're set. A lot of fun.

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RC said:

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trip said:
So do you plan to cure the sound deficiency? I'm hoping Europipe will come up with a good system including a Loud/Quiet switch. Glad you felt the steering was so sharp and car handled like 997s, that's great news. Thanks for the review.

I try to stay away from aftermarket exhaust systems as long as I can, especially since I hope hat Porsche is coming up with something decent. But the sound is very very disappointing. I heard two early prototypes and they sounded awsome, so it can't be a technical limitation, more of a legal limitation. However, the car is THAT bad in sound (HORRIBLE!!!), that I suspect that Porsche did it by purpose. My wife's vacuum cleaner sounds ten times better than my Turbo. I still have hopes that my car is too new and there is still a lot of stuff in the exhaust which has to burn off first. But I doubt it is going to be much better. Porsche NEEDS to come up with a sport exhaust for this car, they can't leave it this way. NO WAY!

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CF said:

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I have still hope: an engineer told me that it will definetely get better as soon as the fuzzy logic of the Tip/etc. gets used to my driving style. Also there seems to be a certain "safety" programming for the first couple of thousands of km to avoid too much unnecessary stress to certain drivetrain parts. Hope he's right.

After 1800 km I definately feel a change in the Tiptronic compared to when I had 600-1000 km.
It's much better now, shifts more aggressively and works like a charm.
The whole car feels different, even the sound is better.

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RC said:
One thing which doesn't seem to be right though seems the dampers. The chassis feels pretty "nervous" all the time, it was different with the 20 mm chassis. But maybe it is still too new to make a final statement.

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svtrader1 said:

Every mag review has praised the new turbo as a very safe, predictable, and very easy car to drive.

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nberry said:

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atomic80 said:
RC, it sounds like your impressions with the Tip pretty much mirrors my own. I was not impressed with the Tip and this was with a non-Sport Chrono car. I felt that there was too much of a lag for me to efficiently harness the power of the car especially when the going gets tight during hard cornering. I also don't remember the exhaust note being all that impressive in the Tip version either especially when flying down the Autobahn.

However, on the other hand, with the manual version I did find the exhaust sound to be slightly deeper in note. I didn't find either one to be as impressive as my old M5 with the Dinan exhaust. Now that car had an exhaust note that I could listen to all day long.

Your impressions also of the Turbo's handling mirrors my own. Very light on it's feet. I had fun cornering the car hard in the wet and in the dry. I found that it was easier to maintain the power efficiently with the manual version. With the Tip, it was difficult to downshift efficiently because the buttons were on the steering wheel and I couldn't use those when turning the wheels fast. However, I could downshift easily with the manual version while at the same time turning the steering wheel. A much better combination, IMHO. I'm not sure why Porsche did not have the foresight to at least allow manual shifting with the Tiptronic shift knob. Definitely something they should do sometime soon. Hopefully the PDK will have paddle shifting or even allow shifting with the shift handle.

Those that drive with both hands on the wheel including turning (crossover of the hands) will like the placement of the buttons on the steering wheel. If you shuttle your hands in turning, then the buttons just don't work as well.

Personally I hate the buttons on the wheel though occasionally I do turn the wheel using the crossover method

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KresoF1 said:
New 997 Turbo is more demanding for driving fast then 996 Turbo. Some people will not like that...
BTW, Speed Yellow looks awfull!