Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung - Page4

Jun 18, 2006 1:09:13 AM

Congaman: Junior; Loc: Sweden, Göteborg; Posts: 57, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

I'm also a Z06 owner, but from Sweden. First let me say that I've only respect for Porsche's as a sports car icon.

The test in Auto Zeitung is very wrong. Don't know how they could achieve these bad times for both the 997 turbo and the Z06. Anyway they should stop writing about cars as they obviously don't have a clue about them.

I've collected some other test results from European magazines which shows the Auto Zeitung is totally out of order:

C6 Z06
ams 06/2006
0 - 100 km/h 4,0 s
0 - 200 km/h 11,9 s

sport auto 04/2006
0 - 100 km/h 4,0 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,0 s

F430
ams 09/2005
0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
0 - 200 km/h 13,0 s

sport auto 01/2006
0 - 100 km/h 4,0 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,6 s

997 Turbo
ams 13/2006
0 - 100 km/h 3,7 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,3 s

Auto Zeitung 06/2006
0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,5 s

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Jun 18, 2006 4:20:23 AM

forhamilton: Newbie; Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas; Posts: 33, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2006; Reply to: Congaman

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

I traded my 996TT on my C6Z. The Z gives me absolute pleasure, but I hope to have another Porsche soon.

The numbers are off I agree. Glad to see this board is full of intelligent enthusiasts.

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Jun 18, 2006 10:10:57 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Congaman

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
Congaman said:
I'm also a Z06 owner, but from Sweden. First let me say that I've only respect for Porsche's as a sports car icon.

The test in Auto Zeitung is very wrong. Don't know how they could achieve these bad times for both the 997 turbo and the Z06. Anyway they should stop writing about cars as they obviously don't have a clue about them.

I've collected some other test results from European magazines which shows the Auto Zeitung is totally out of order:

C6 Z06
ams 06/2006
0 - 100 km/h 4,0 s
0 - 200 km/h 11,9 s

sport auto 04/2006
0 - 100 km/h 4,0 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,0 s

F430
ams 09/2005
0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
0 - 200 km/h 13,0 s

sport auto 01/2006
0 - 100 km/h 4,0 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,6 s

997 Turbo
ams 13/2006
0 - 100 km/h 3,7 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,3 s

Auto Zeitung 06/2006
0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
0 - 200 km/h 12,5 s

An unrelated question... Where do you get to drive fast in Sweden without losing your license premanently?

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Jun 18, 2006 10:17:06 AM

Congaman: Junior; Loc: Sweden, Göteborg; Posts: 57, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
Crash said:

An unrelated question... Where do you get to drive fast in Sweden without losing your license premanently?

Well, it's not easy to drive fast in Sweden...so we have to go to our old colony North Germany to have a run at the Autobahn..

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Jun 18, 2006 12:04:40 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
The Auto Zeitung test numbers for the Z06 are some of the slowest of any ever seen.

I suggest they are usless prancers with little real skill at laumching a car from a dead start.Maybe they can only do well with electronic nannies.

Its either that or they lifted slightly off the gas pedal after they got going.

They should be embarrassed and concerned. None of their test numbers for the Z06's accelleration match up right with many other tests. Very suspicious results.

Unfortunately (for the Z06), the published Z06 acceleration figures are nearly identical to numbers achieved by Kurt Thiim in another recent test (Kurt Thiim is a professional and well known racing driver here in Europe).

So the poor acceleration figures of the Z06 cannot be explained by poor driving skills...

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Jun 18, 2006 12:43:57 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
The Auto Zeitung test numbers for the Z06 are some of the slowest of any ever seen.

I suggest they are usless prancers with little real skill at laumching a car from a dead start.Maybe they can only do well with electronic nannies.

Its either that or they lifted slightly off the gas pedal after they got going.

They should be embarrassed and concerned. None of their test numbers for the Z06's accelleration match up right with many other tests. Very suspicious results.

Unfortunately (for the Z06), the published Z06 acceleration figures are nearly identical to numbers achieved by Kurt Thiim in another recent test (Kurt Thiim is a professional and well known racing driver here in Europe).

So the poor acceleration figures of the Z06 cannot be explained by poor driving skills...

So, could there be disparities between different CARS? Some people have reported 127 mph traps in the quarter mile and some magazines have gotten amazing times, but other have found it to be relatively slow. Seems quite odd.

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Jun 18, 2006 1:34:30 PM

forhamilton: Newbie; Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas; Posts: 33, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Look at this link Compilation of US Magazine Tests on the Z06

Remember, my last car was a 996TT, so I'm not here to bash the Porsche. In fact, quite the opposite. It just seems suspect that a magazine can test so many high performance cars and have problems with the C6Z. After an hour or two in mine, I was launching very successfully.

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Jun 18, 2006 1:58:01 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: forhamilton

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
forhamilton said:
Look at this link Compilation of US Magazine Tests on the Z06

Remember, my last car was a 996TT, so I'm not here to bash the Porsche. In fact, quite the opposite. It just seems suspect that a magazine can test so many high performance cars and have problems with the C6Z. After an hour or two in mine, I was launching very successfully.

If it makes you feel any better, most of us don't care about 0-100 km/h times, but care much more about 100+ km/h acceleration. I'd much rather have a car with a 5-second 0-100 km/h time and an 8-second 100-200 km/h time, than a 4-second car with a 9-second time. Launching isn't a problem, regardless of the times it produces, it's the higher-speed acceleration that is important.

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Jun 18, 2006 3:21:55 PM

TulsaTurbo: Co-Pilot; Loc: Oklahoma, USA; Posts: 284, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 24, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
forhamilton said:
Look at this link Compilation of US Magazine Tests on the Z06

Remember, my last car was a 996TT, so I'm not here to bash the Porsche. In fact, quite the opposite. It just seems suspect that a magazine can test so many high performance cars and have problems with the C6Z. After an hour or two in mine, I was launching very successfully.

If it makes you feel any better, most of us don't care about 0-100 km/h times, but care much more about 100+ km/h acceleration. I'd much rather have a car with a 5-second 0-100 km/h time and an 8-second 100-200 km/h time, than a 4-second car with a 9-second time. Launching isn't a problem, regardless of the times it produces, it's the higher-speed acceleration that is important.

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Jun 18, 2006 3:59:40 PM

Vette6799: Newbie; Loc: Maryland, USA; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 9, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
forhamilton said:
Look at this link Compilation of US Magazine Tests on the Z06

Remember, my last car was a 996TT, so I'm not here to bash the Porsche. In fact, quite the opposite. It just seems suspect that a magazine can test so many high performance cars and have problems with the C6Z. After an hour or two in mine, I was launching very successfully.

If it makes you feel any better, most of us don't care about 0-100 km/h times, but care much more about 100+ km/h acceleration. I'd much rather have a car with a 5-second 0-100 km/h time and an 8-second 100-200 km/h time, than a 4-second car with a 9-second time. Launching isn't a problem, regardless of the times it produces, it's the higher-speed acceleration that is important.

I don't see the 100-200 Km/H quoted very often, but with a 0-120 MPH time of 9.3 seconds, I suspect the time would be rather short.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I take it relativelu easy on the street, but have taken the Z06 right up to the 125-130 MPH figure (and quickly back down) a good number of times. The engine has so much power deliverable through a wide RPM range that it just goes and goes. The car is light with a very low coefficient of drag and lots of torque. Most of the other cars on the list seem to have more weight, less HP and a lot less torque.

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Jun 18, 2006 4:19:28 PM

forhamilton: Newbie; Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas; Posts: 33, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

I agree. I try to hit the track about once/month and 0-60 times don't mean anything. Important to note that in the US drag racing is very popular and many tend to pay too much attention to much attention to 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

I would like to see the 100-200km/h for the same cars. That would be very informative. Wonder why the magazine didn't test and/or post them?

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Jun 18, 2006 4:27:22 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: forhamilton

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
forhamilton said:
I agree. I try to hit the track about once/month and 0-60 times don't mean anything. Important to note that in the US drag racing is very popular and many tend to pay too much attention to much attention to 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

I would like to see the 100-200km/h for the same cars. That would be very informative. Wonder why the magazine didn't test and/or post them?

Not sure. I suspect the 0-62 mph and the 0-125 mph times were measured at the same time. The 100-200 km/h times for the Turbo and the C6Z are identical, which was to be expected, since RC has said that Porsche had acquired one for comparison (and they tweaked the car just enough to match it

).
Drag racing isn't popular in Europe, at least not in the sports car circles. The ricers with their Clios and Civics love it, though.

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Jun 18, 2006 4:39:56 PM

forhamilton: Newbie; Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas; Posts: 33, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

That's interesting that they would be the same considering the 997TT has less HP, weighs more and only has more torque for short period (although I really don't understand this overboost very much). One would think as speed increases the Z would gain advantage. Must be gearing?

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Jun 18, 2006 4:51:39 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: forhamilton

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
forhamilton said:
That's interesting that they would be the same considering the 997TT has less HP, weighs more and only has more torque for short period (although I really don't understand this overboost very much). One would think as speed increases the Z would gain advantage. Must be gearing?

The Turbo has one extra gear to play with, but, more crucially, Porsche Turbos aren't known for accurate power ratings (meaning they make much more power than stated).

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Jun 18, 2006 6:31:23 PM

Vette6799: Newbie; Loc: Maryland, USA; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 9, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
forhamilton said:
That's interesting that they would be the same considering the 997TT has less HP, weighs more and only has more torque for short period (although I really don't understand this overboost very much). One would think as speed increases the Z would gain advantage. Must be gearing?

The Turbo has one extra gear to play with, but, more crucially, Porsche Turbos aren't known for accurate power ratings (meaning they make much more power than stated).

When you Porsche folks do dyno runs, and this must be done bone stock to have any meaning, how much rear wheel HP do you typically see relative to what is advertised, and what do you anticipate your drive train loss to be as a percentage of HP at the crank.

I believe with the Z06 we see about a 13% loss.

For what it is worth, I am not a big believer in the idea that some identical powerplsnts create much more HP or Torque than do other equivalent engines. Seems to me that the issue tends to be dyno-related.

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Jun 18, 2006 6:45:14 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Vette6799

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
Vette6799 said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
forhamilton said:
That's interesting that they would be the same considering the 997TT has less HP, weighs more and only has more torque for short period (although I really don't understand this overboost very much). One would think as speed increases the Z would gain advantage. Must be gearing?

The Turbo has one extra gear to play with, but, more crucially, Porsche Turbos aren't known for accurate power ratings (meaning they make much more power than stated).

When you Porsche folks do dyno runs, and this must be done bone stock to have any meaning, how much rear wheel HP do you typically see relative to what is advertised, and what do you anticipate your drive train loss to be as a percentage of HP at the crank.

I believe with the Z06 we see about a 13% loss.

For what it is worth, I am not a big believer in the idea that some identical powerplsnts create much more HP or Torque than do other equivalent engines. Seems to me that the issue tends to be dyno-related.

Not sure about the % loss, but it's very low, somewhere between 10 and 15%, if I recall correctly.
Regarding the ratings, I meant to say that stock Turbos make much more power than advertised, which could be the reason for it being on par with the C6Z.

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Jun 18, 2006 10:52:57 PM

forhamilton: Newbie; Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas; Posts: 33, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Interesting, they are saying the same thing about the Z. They say at 505 it is way under-rated.

No matter. At the track it will be a driver's race. Can't wait to see and drive one in person. I think I'll be ready in a about two years for a GT3.

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Jun 19, 2006 12:13:07 AM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: forhamilton

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

I just saw a silver one today and it looked awesome. Can't wait to see one in black.

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Jun 19, 2006 2:02:57 AM

01Box06Z06: Pilot; Loc: Pennsylvania, USA; Posts: 300, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2006; Reply to: trip

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

The times do seem a bit slow for the Z06, no doubt about it. With the Ferrari doing 0-200kph (essentially 126mph) in 12.2 is really fast and probably doesn't make sense for the hp to weight ratio.
Also, the new Z06 is "rated" at 505hp, but most are actually make between 535 - 540hp when dynoed, stock (like mine)

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Jun 19, 2006 3:18:43 AM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: 01Box06Z06

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Yeah this has been discussed, the f430 is most likely a ringer or, another possibility is the fact that Auto Zeitung misprinted the 0-200 time as 12.2 instead of 13.2 in a previous test and may have just carried over that error.

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Jun 19, 2006 4:46:59 AM

BC: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Cape Town , South Africa; Posts: 2586, Gallery; Registered on: May 19, 2005; Reply to: Hurst

Re: 997 Turbo comparison test in new Auto Zeitung

Quote:
Hurst said:
F430 times are a tad on the rediculously fast side...

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