Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Jun 7, 2006 4:30:48 PM

    SciFrog Offline
    Rennteam VIP
    SciFrog
    Loc: USA , United States
    Posts: 9870, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 15, 2005
    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    So, are all of you pleased with performance? Well, I am and as RC said TIP is only little bit faster(you will see in few issues of AMS-they already measured it!). And when I said little bit-I mean little bit(just 0.1s in 0-200km/h )!



    So, if we were to assume that overboost was used on both cars...

    The manual 997TT w/ SC did 12.3 (12.8)
    The tip 997TT w/ SC did 12.2 (12.2)

    Numbers in parenthesis are official Porsche times. Do we know for a fact if the official Porsche times also enabled overboost?



    12.8 (manual) and 12.2 (tip) are assumed without SC from Porsche.

    So what RC meant was the test showed a 0.5 improvement with SC for the manual over Porsche number (without SC).

    For the tip with SC, we can then assume a 0.4-5 improvement over 12.2, ie 11.7-8 because of SC...

    KresoF1, 12.1 for tip test, that's without SC no? If this is with SC, it is very dissapointing, enough for not getting the tip.

    Jun 7, 2006 4:53:12 PM

    Turbo
    Senior
    Turbo
    Loc:
    Posts: 604, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 29, 2003
    Reply to: Mike2

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    Mike2 said:



    Braking (with PCCB):
    100-0--cold/unloaded--34m
    100-0--cold/loaded----36m
    100-0--warm/loaded----35m
    190-0-----------------123m





    I d'ont thtink the AMS Test car has PCCB, Base Price is Euro 133.603,-- car as tested Euro 140.702,-- (PCCB Price is Euro 8.491,--)?? But on the photo it looks like PCCB, big mistery...

    Jun 7, 2006 6:04:57 PM

    turbolite
    Veteran
    turbolite
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1012, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 26, 2004
    Reply to: Turbo

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    not a mistery at all, the test expressly states that the car tested has PCCB...

    Jun 7, 2006 6:19:41 PM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: turbolite

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    WOW,the 997 TT is a rocket,can't wait to have it!!!

    Jun 7, 2006 7:17:37 PM

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
    Posts: 7856, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Just one thing-SC is NOT improving acceleration from 0-100km/h or 0-200km/h, just in-gear acceleration(80-120km/h or else...). Reason? According to my friend from P. you are using all the power(and revs) during sprints(0-200km/h), so overboost is not the issue there... Makes sense to me. But, if you are driving 140km/h in fourth gear for example and floor it car with SC will accelerate faster then one without it!

    Jun 7, 2006 8:51:57 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: EricAlain

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:

    Top speed on the 997 TT is "electronically" limited to 310km/h to fit tyre rating.



    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)

    Jun 7, 2006 8:56:59 PM

    trip
    Expert
    trip
    Loc: Bay Area California , United States
    Posts: 1691, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Wouldn't the significant extra torque, and horsepower (not peak, just increased in rev range affected by sc) contribute to quicker times?

    Jun 7, 2006 8:59:21 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59598, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...

    Jun 7, 2006 9:00:22 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59598, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: zzbobaA

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Well, at least the doped press rocket cars are



    Well...lucky me I guess.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:05:40 PM

    trip
    Expert
    trip
    Loc: Bay Area California , United States
    Posts: 1691, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    RC do you think Porsche would follow MB's lead in releasing extra powerful cars to the press? I wouldn't think that Porsche would stoop to this level. Also, did you get my email about my Avatar. Thanks for offering to help.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:09:50 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59598, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    As RC said test is little bit short but, very good one!
    So, are all of you pleased with performance? Well, I am and as RC said TIP is only little bit faster(you will see in few issues of AMS-they already measured it!). And when I said little bit-I mean little bit(just 0.1s in 0-



    As a comparison "hint": from aprox. 80 kph up to 200 kph, almost a car length advantage for the Tip. Of course considering that the manual driver was a pro shifter and it can't also be excluded that the manual OR the Tip had more power (it is difficult to compare it that way). One car had rumored 7000 km and the other rumored 9000 on the speedo. May be one car length and a half with not so talented shifter. Of course this is just a rumor.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:16:12 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...



    They also published a speed/rev/gear chart in the AMS article. Max revs in 6th gear result in ca. 310kph.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:21:08 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...



    They also published a speed/rev/gear chart in the AMS article. Max revs in 6th gear result in ca. 310kph.



    So I guess it is safe to say that you will not be selling your X50 any time soon, at least not until the GT2/X50 comes out. I personally think the car is as fast as anything out there, but I wonder how it compares against the M6 and the new SL55 above 200 km/h.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:21:25 PM

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Germany
    Posts: 12682, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...



    They also published a speed/rev/gear chart in the AMS article. Max revs in 6th gear result in ca. 310kph.



    Seems to accurate. 310 kph seems too slow for a 480 hp Porsche 997...

    Jun 7, 2006 9:25:52 PM

    svtrader1
    Veteran
    svtrader1
    Loc:
    Posts: 821, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2003
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...



    They also published a speed/rev/gear chart in the AMS article. Max revs in 6th gear result in ca. 310kph.



    Seems to accurate. 310 kph seems too slow for a 480 hp Porsche 997...



    Yup, especially with a very slippery drag coefficient of only .31.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:27:12 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59598, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Not sure about the gearing. I really have to look into it, I find it pretty strange that ALL four models, Turbo/Turbo Tip, GT3/GT3 RS have a Vmax of 310 kph. I hope I don't forget to ask next time, I actually wanted to ask WR during our GT3 testing but of course...I forgot.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:27:13 PM

    trip
    Expert
    trip
    Loc: Bay Area California , United States
    Posts: 1691, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Exactly, but perhaps porsche put the limiter in place to protect its less talented customers. The 997tt has less downforce than the f430 so maybe it is not as stable as Porsche is comfortable with above 310?

    Jun 7, 2006 9:34:43 PM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    The V max limiter is likely there to compliment the v max rating of available hi speed winter tires.



    Jun 7, 2006 9:39:54 PM

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Germany
    Posts: 12682, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Exactly, but perhaps porsche put the limiter in place to protect its less talented customers. The 997tt has less downforce than the f430 so maybe it is not as stable as Porsche is comfortable with above 310?



    Do you really think a less talented customer has any benefit if the his car is "only" capable of 310 kph?

    Jun 7, 2006 9:46:48 PM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Rossi you are very funny!

    That avatar makes the Ferrari prancing horse look very funny also!

    Jun 7, 2006 9:53:04 PM

    svtrader1
    Veteran
    svtrader1
    Loc:
    Posts: 821, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2003
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Or maybe it's just another marketing ploy. When Turbo sales start to taper off, Porsche, will introduce power kit/ turbo S and will hit the magical 200mph barrier. Bada bing Bada boom!

    Jun 7, 2006 9:55:41 PM

    trip
    Expert
    trip
    Loc: Bay Area California , United States
    Posts: 1691, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    Exactly, but perhaps porsche put the limiter in place to protect its less talented customers. The 997tt has less downforce than the f430 so maybe it is not as stable as Porsche is comfortable with above 310?



    Do you really think a less talented customer has any benefit if the his car is "only" capable of 310 kph?


    As I was saying, If the car doesn't have enough downforce to remain suitably stable above 310, Porsche may not feel comfortable allowing for true Vmax because less capable customers may be likely to make a serious error. I am just speculating.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:17:02 PM

    GT Offline
    Senior
    GT
    Loc: london , United Kingdom
    Posts: 618, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 14, 2006
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Just one thing-SC is NOT improving acceleration from 0-100km/h or 0-200km/h, just in-gear acceleration(80-120km/h or else...). Reason? According to my friend from P. you are using all the power(and revs) during sprints(0-200km/h), so overboost is not the issue there... Makes sense to me. But, if you are driving 140km/h in fourth gear for example and floor it car with SC will accelerate faster then one without it!


    Exactly! Everybody with a tuned 996 with overboost would know that.. Overboost is until about 4.5k rpm and thus on accelerations from standstill it does not come into play since after every gearchange engine goes above the overboost threshold..
    Was waiting for somebody to point that out at last!

    I am afraid no 11.5s for tip with or without SC RC..

    Jun 7, 2006 10:21:41 PM

    trip
    Expert
    trip
    Loc: Bay Area California , United States
    Posts: 1691, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: GT

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    That is kind of disapointing. Hopefully tuners will make overboost last into higher RPM ranges.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:35:01 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    Exactly, but perhaps porsche put the limiter in place to protect its less talented customers. The 997tt has less downforce than the f430 so maybe it is not as stable as Porsche is comfortable with above 310?



    Do you really think a less talented customer has any benefit if the his car is "only" capable of 310 kph?


    As I was saying, If the car doesn't have enough downforce to remain suitably stable above 310, Porsche may not feel comfortable allowing for true Vmax because less capable customers may be likely to make a serious error. I am just speculating.



    Why would the Turbo have less downforce than the 430? Also, being around 100 kilos heavier, it would also need less downforce.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:41:07 PM

    trip
    Expert
    trip
    Loc: Bay Area California , United States
    Posts: 1691, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    The 430 has a full length undertray complete with venturi tunnels. Nberry (I know, not the most reliable source) posted a graph showing that the 430 had something like 600+ lbs of downforce. Now I think that is probably exagerated and I admit I don't know the official figure but my bet is it has more downforce. You're right, the turbo is heavier so it would need less. I would be curious to see official numbers and see which has the downforce advantage.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:52:29 PM

    Tony007
    Co-Pilot
    Tony007
    Loc: Leesburg FL , United States
    Posts: 178, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 12, 2006
    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    trip said:
    That is kind of disapointing. Hopefully tuners will make overboost last into higher RPM ranges.



    They will..

    Jun 7, 2006 10:55:02 PM

    MKW
    Rennteam Pro
    MKW
    Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States
    Posts: 2491, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 22, 2002
    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    trip said:
    The 430 has a full length undertray complete with venturi tunnels. Nberry (I know, not the most reliable source) posted a graph showing that the 430 had something like 600+ lbs of downforce. Now I think that is probably exagerated and I admit I don't know the official figure but my bet is it has more downforce. You're right, the turbo is heavier so it would need less. I would be curious to see official numbers and see which has the downforce advantage.



    Too much down force reduces high speed acceleration . That net down force of 600 lbs is like the F430 weighing 4000+ lbs at very high speed but more " stable "from an aero standpoint.Note the 997 Turbo's " TechArt "- like wing develops more downforce vs the smaller 996 Turbo's wing as another example. Everything is a compromise - accelerate to the same top speed slower and steady or quicker with potential veering way out of your lane at the slightest crosswind. Each manufacturer has to engineer to its own targeted sweet spot.

    Jun 7, 2006 11:04:41 PM

    WBH
    Expert
    WBH
    Loc: CA
    Posts: 1963, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 2, 2004
    Reply to: MKW

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    The 430 has a full length undertray complete with venturi tunnels. Nberry (I know, not the most reliable source) posted a graph showing that the 430 had something like 600+ lbs of downforce. Now I think that is probably exagerated and I admit I don't know the official figure but my bet is it has more downforce. You're right, the turbo is heavier so it would need less. I would be curious to see official numbers and see which has the downforce advantage.



    Too much down force reduces high speed acceleration . That net down force of 600 lbs is like the F430 weighing 4000+ lbs at very high speed but more " stable "from an aero standpoint.Note the 997 Turbo's " TechArt "- like wing develops more downforce vs the smaller 996 Turbo's wing as another example. Everything is a compromise - accelerate to the same top speed slower and steady or quicker with potential veering way out of your lane at the slightest crosswind.



    Exactly...

    Any of our German pals w/first-hand expce re: stability of 430 and 996TTS at 170+MPH cruise???

    Recall a recent Brit mag doing top-speed testing of various cars on track and claiming that 997S @?172MPH was scarily unstable....is that mag b.s.?....or is it part of the trade-off w/lighter sportscars that excel in twisties rather than 170+MPH cruising stability???

    Jun 7, 2006 11:05:39 PM

    trip
    Expert
    trip
    Loc: Bay Area California , United States
    Posts: 1691, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
    Reply to: MKW

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Yeah MKW, I know that, I am just wondering which car actually has greater downforce including the vehicles own weight.
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/3/24 3:40 PM
    watt     		802549 1803
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		448344 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48     		265903 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA     		89903 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut     		6379 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 885288 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		831941 3868
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug     		399042 1454
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry     		395371 1526
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut     		381824 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		370636 797
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 5/12/24 6:23 PM
    blueflame     		293280 669
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 265035 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		243763 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		238438 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		222082 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		172922 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		144796 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA     		120912 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM     		111268 685
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		85443 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame     		75652 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		54698 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 5/13/24 3:18 PM
    Grant     		26142 246
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy     		21618 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie     		20039 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997     		16975 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA     		14198 225
    Motor Sp. 24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018 5/25/23 10:42 PM
    Grant     		11428 55
    Porsche Porsche Mission X Hypercar 12/3/23 8:52 AM
    996FourEss     		11183 63
    123 items found, displaying 1 to 30.