Crown

Gnil:

We are on the same line as Lars . It all depends on the condition . Only difference , when we take business, kids stay in economy 

SciFrog :  next month, we too are in the Maldives and Dubaï ......   Flying economy this time, as prices were crazy for Business . That is also the reason why we stay in Dubaï . To cut the uncomfortable economy flight to the minimum .

And as you also say, the benefit of Business is not only the confort in cabin it is the whole process before and after . It makes a HUGE difference . 

A good friend of mine has a family  private plane ( intercontinental jet ) She always says she is much more comfortable flying Business or First on commercial airlines then in her private jet ( don't know what it is exactly, has 3 engines ) 

That would be the Dassault Falcon  50/900 or the 7X

Whoopsy:

Gnil:

We are on the same line as Lars . It all depends on the condition . Only difference , when we take business, kids stay in economy 

SciFrog :  next month, we too are in the Maldives and Dubaï ......   Flying economy this time, as prices were crazy for Business . That is also the reason why we stay in Dubaï . To cut the uncomfortable economy flight to the minimum .

And as you also say, the benefit of Business is not only the confort in cabin it is the whole process before and after . It makes a HUGE difference . 

A good friend of mine has a family  private plane ( intercontinental jet ) She always says she is much more comfortable flying Business or First on commercial airlines then in her private jet ( don't know what it is exactly, has 3 engines ) 

 

That would be the Dassault Falcon  50/900 or the 7X

Found it ... it is indeed a Dassault Falcon 7X

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

One dirty little secret of private flying is that unless you go to heavy jet size like GIV, it can be really cramped. Citation X or Falcon 50 for example despite being "super mid" size jets are small inside and for long flights you better off going first or business on regular airlines. Another dirty secret is luggage space. It can be fairly limited especially on planes like a Hawker 800. Some also also noisier than you would think, sometime there is no water in the faucet... Yet another secret is that on busy days, the airport can be so busy that you can have significant delays especially when the weather gets bad. Also you cannot really have the same level of food since the galley is very limited. Last, the seats are not really lie flats like in business class and on a GIV you only get 5 "beds".

The 7X is a fantastic plane, I would get one if I could. But to use them for long hauls gets very expensive and they become out of charter rotation during the trip.

SciFrog:

 

The 7X is a fantastic plane, I would get one if I could. But to use them for long hauls gets very expensive and they become out of charter rotation during the trip.

My friend tells me it is too cramped when she takes it will all the kids, you can't sleep properly   and says she is much more comfortable flying Business / First  . ( flying 12 hours trips )  

Funny story . We are 3 families going regularly on vacation together . We all have kids . One of the family has that jet . One day the kids were talking about how cool it is on Easy Jet as you have your own screen , and the 6 year old from my friend answering back as  she did not want to be left out : we also have screens in our easy  jet  . They had no idea about the difference  

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Awesome... and I almost though the thread is about the G-class. 

I agree that, traveling with the family, the Premium Economy on LH seems to be the more appropriate solution than Business. And RC, you can even carry more luggage than in Economy.

Have to agree as well that staying overnight at an airport hotel is far more relaxing than driving to the airport at 3 a.m., some of them even offer free parking for one or two weeks in their underground parking which makes it quite feasible in terms of cost.

Ferdie:

Awesome... and I almost though the thread is about the G-class. 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

Surprisingly by 6'2, Im comfortable in economy class. maybe because during my first job back to 25 years ago, did fly 8-10 times/ month. Still prefer Economy but when we, the whole family travel, she get the first class, as long as she pays ,Im okey

Ferdie:

Awesome... and I almost though the thread is about the G-class. 

It is very on topic  . Discussing  rough rides 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

I am 6'4 and hate the econmoy class but still not worth to pay the extra money

damn and I thought I read News about the G........650......

Ferdie:

Awesome... and I almost though the thread is about the G-class. 

I agree that, traveling with the family, the Premium Economy on LH seems to be the more appropriate solution than Business. And RC, you can even carry more luggage than in Economy.

We can carry five suitcases at a 23 kg weight each anyway...I am a frequent flyer with Lufthansa and have the right to carry a second 23 kg luggage piece with me. This is usually enough for us, even for my wife and her shoe fetish. 

Have to agree as well that staying overnight at an airport hotel is far more relaxing than driving to the airport at 3 a.m., some of them even offer free parking for one or two weeks in their underground parking which makes it quite feasible in terms of cost.

This is our "secret" and it really works well. Most of our friends, even the wealthy ones, fly economy as well and they are always complaining about the flights and how tired they are. They do not want to take a hotel the night before the flight (family suite usually costs around 400 EUR) and many of them also take the cheapest connections possible, which sometimes involves changing the plane once or even twice and waiting times around 2-3 hours at airports. I guess some people got rich because they save their money  but sometimes it is a difference between saving money and...just being cheap. I would never torment my kids with unnecessary layovers and whatnot, this is no vacation.  Direct flights for us, whenever possible, this is the only time we do not care about cost. Economy though. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

To each his own...

When we travel as a family on long haul commercial flights (couple of times a year) it is for flights no less than 7 hours with overnight leg on at least one of the flights and half the time at least one connection and often once we get to the destination we still have to take a boat, a small plane or a chopper. Business is expensive but we get to our destination significantly less stressed and tired.

The few times a year I do short haul domestic usually with no checked luggages, first/business will save significant time exiting the pane for a moderate surcharge. I usuallly can be in a car within 5/10 minutes of arriving at the gate. You still need to get to the airport early of course, but in case you run late for any reason you have that extra half hour that you save in lines and such in your pocket.

Bottom line: using miles or not, we find the extra cost to ALWAYS be worth it in any scenario.

Flying private however is not really worth it. As explained in another post, there are some quirky facts that few know about and that really hamper the experience sometimes. And the cost to fly confortable is really really high per hour (count $8-10k per flight hour). That said the stress level is significantly reduced, nothing like arriving at an airport and 5 minutes later the car will be at the plane door all loaded up ready to go, or just knowing that you can be pretty much as late as you want. There is no financial justification for it but you would be surprised how common it is in wealthy areas.

Having to stay an extra night in a different hotel with the whole family just adds significant unnecessary complications to a vacation.

I pick private charter when commercial flights' timing doesn't make sense, or if the arriving airport not convenient.

For example, last 2 years when I flew to Kittila Finland for the Porsche Ice-Force, had I fly commercial I would have been stuck in the Helsinki airport for 5 hours waiting for transfer, we took a charter that flew direct from London instead. With 7-9 people onboard (the distance dictates that we go in a super mid sized jet, like a Legacy 600, tons of room inside) the cost is down to a few thousand each. And we get to pick our departure and arrival time. One couple who turned down the offer to join us on the charter to Finland flew commercial on the inbound flight, their plane was suppose to land 10 mins after us but their flight had a problem and had to fly all the way back to Helsinki and then fly in again, didn't arrive till mid night. They cancelled their ticket and jump onboard for the return flight back to London, arriving home 8 hours early for a nice surprise for their kids.

Another destination that's good for private charter was Paul Ricard circuit, the airport is right next door. Don't have to do a 50 mins transfer from the commercial airport.

Whoopsy:

I pick private charter when commercial flights' timing doesn't make sense, or if the arriving airport not convenient.

For example, last 2 years when I flew to Kittila Finland for the Porsche Ice-Force, had I fly commercial I would have been stuck in the Helsinki airport for 5 hours waiting for transfer, we took a charter that flew direct from London instead. With 7-9 people onboard (the distance dictates that we go in a super mid sized jet, like a Legacy 600, tons of room inside) the cost is down to a few thousand each. And we get to pick our departure and arrival time. One couple who turned down the offer to join us on the charter to Finland flew commercial on the inbound flight, their plane was suppose to land 10 mins after us but their flight had a problem and had to fly all the way back to Helsinki and then fly in again, didn't arrive till mid night. They cancelled their ticket and jump onboard for the return flight back to London, arriving home 8 hours early for a nice surprise for their kids.

Another destination that's good for private charter was Paul Ricard circuit, the airport is right next door. Don't have to do a 50 mins transfer from the commercial airport.

 

Makes sense in your situation(s) but with certain (simple ) destinations, commercial flights are quite convenient and business/first class doesn't really add anything to our flight experience because we try to stick to nonstop flights and we usually fly rested. If I had to fly on business and/or with many layovers, I would certainly not fly commercial and/or economy class.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Another airport where flying private is a huge help is Aspen. First you can be in your house/room within 20 minutes of landing. Second there are not a lot of direct commercial flights from Aspen. Third, Aspen airport closes very often due to bad weather, flying commercial you have no control about where you go instead. If you land in Denver, it is a 3-4 hours drive. Private you can choose Riffle or Eagle and they can arrange to have a transport or car rental ready for you before you land, under 1.5 hour drive.

Some goofy carribean islands too...

SciFrog:

Another airport where flying private is a huge help is Aspen. First you can be in your house/room within 20 minutes of landing. Second there are not a lot of direct commercial flights from Aspen. Third, Aspen airport closes very often due to bad weather, flying commercial you have no control about where you go instead. If you land in Denver, it is a 3-4 hours drive. Private you can choose Riffle or Eagle and they can arrange to have a transport or car rental ready for you before you land, under 1.5 hour drive.

Actually, we would love to drive from Denver to Aspen...we've never been there and we want to see the surroundings.

Some goofy carribean islands too...

You will never get us (me, wife, kids) to such islands. No desire to go there at all. I understand the attraction (water, mostly no mass tourism, etc.) but we are different. We love action. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

You think people going to these islands just sit on the beach all day? If you go to a resort you have simple access to water sports, snorkeling closeby, you can go boating, scuba diving and often hiking. We also do kayaking, paddle boarding and hobby cat or laser sailing. This year have have done many hours of jet ski, sea bob, tubing and snorkeling. Thinking about it I don't think we spent more than one hour at a time at the beach in our last trips. On some islands you can do eco tours and explore, meet researchers and scientists. Granted, usually shopping will be restrained, unless you go to St Thomas or St Barth.

SciFrog:

You think people going to these islands just sit on the beach all day? If you go to a resort you have simple access to water sports, snorkeling closeby, you can go boating, scuba diving and often hiking. We also do kayaking, paddle boarding and hobby cat or laser sailing. This year have have done many hours of jet ski, sea bob, tubing and snorkeling. Thinking about it I don't think we spent more than one hour at a time at the beach in our last trips. On some islands you can do eco tours and explore, meet researchers and scientists. Granted, usually shopping will be restrained, unless you go to St Thomas or St Barth.

I know, I just want to be in an environment where I have everything. 

We usually spend four to five hours on the beach... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Ironic isn't it? I go to the quiet place and don't go too much to the beach but you stay for long periods and go to action packed places? 

Nothing wrong with having everything, but the beaches in Miami are really not that nice compared to the Carribean. We tried a few and end up not ever going to the beach in Miami. Still looking though.

Thats what we call a nice beach:

RC:

Ferdie:

Awesome... and I almost though the thread is about the G-class. 

I agree that, traveling with the family, the Premium Economy on LH seems to be the more appropriate solution than Business. And RC, you can even carry more luggage than in Economy.

We can carry five suitcases at a 23 kg weight each anyway...I am a frequent flyer with Lufthansa and have the right to carry a second 23 kg luggage piece with me. This is usually enough for us, even for my wife and her shoe fetish. 

Have to agree as well that staying overnight at an airport hotel is far more relaxing than driving to the airport at 3 a.m., some of them even offer free parking for one or two weeks in their underground parking which makes it quite feasible in terms of cost.

This is our "secret" and it really works well. Most of our friends, even the wealthy ones, fly economy as well and they are always complaining about the flights and how tired they are. They do not want to take a hotel the night before the flight (family suite usually costs around 400 EUR) and many of them also take the cheapest connections possible, which sometimes involves changing the plane once or even twice and waiting times around 2-3 hours at airports. I guess some people got rich because they save their money  but sometimes it is a difference between saving money and...just being cheap. I would never torment my kids with unnecessary layovers and whatnot, this is no vacation.  Direct flights for us, whenever possible, this is the only time we do not care about cost. Economy though. 

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

Great tip about driving to a nice hotel and having a nice meal the night before.  Besides you must feel like vacation started one day earlier than if you woke up early the next day to drive to the airport.

@SciFrog: Very tempting, where are these beaches? Probably need to change my travel plans

I used to always fly LH First.....even if it meant more stops were included than the best routing.

but I have come to my senses a few years ago and now always opt for the shortest and quickest connection on whatever carrier. I go for the best seats available...

I have also changed the way I travel in including extra time...when I travel for business, I make sure that I have an extra day before the meeting and an extra day after....this takes the stress out of travelling and makes the flight and airport procedures much more relaxed.

owning a private plane makes sense once you spend a minimum of 300 hrs per annum in a plane

intouch1:

I used to always fly LH First.....even if it meant more stops were included than the best routing.

but I have come to my senses a few years ago and now always opt for the shortest and quickest connection on whatever carrier. I go for the best seats available...

I have also changed the way I travel in including extra time...when I travel for business, I make sure that I have an extra day before the meeting and an extra day after....this takes the stress out of travelling and makes the flight and airport procedures much more relaxed.

owning a private plane makes sense once you spend a minimum of 300 hrs per annum in a plane

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Nice but not our thing. We love Sunny Isles Beach in Florida...not too packed, mostly hotel/condo guests, basically no locals and not the kind of people you usually see around South Beach .

Also, when we travel to Spain (our "other" beach vacation during the year), we rent a private villa with private pool. Kids love it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Can't say I ever find time very important. I get there when I get there and everything just waits for me. If it's important that I'm there on time, I'll just get there a day early.

My priorities when flying (always commercial) is seats and fight duration. I only fly first class on 14+ hour flights. Everything else, I just get economy comfort in the exit or bulkhead row. Plenty of room in those seats and they're almost always available to me. Can't lay down, but 7 hour flights are really short to me after having flown 14+ so often, not to mention how many of them have internet. Watch a few episodes or a movie, browse the web for a few hours, eat a little bit, and then you're landing.

The addition of Internet has totally changed flying for me. It's vastly more enjoyable and quicker to pass now.

So of those beaches in those pictures have way too many chairs for my taste. I hate seeing the masses of chairs lines up next to each other, covering the other whole beach. Much prefer empty beaches.

Then again, I hate sunbathing. I don't get why people like to bake in the Sun. It's just hot and your skin gets gross (and potentially cancerous.) I just like eating/drinking in the warm breeze with the ocean noises. Doesn't even have to be on the actual beach.

noone1:

So of those beaches in those pictures have way too many chairs for my taste. I hate seeing the masses of chairs lines up next to each other, covering the other whole beach. Much prefer empty beaches.

Then again, I hate sunbathing. I don't get why people like to bake in the Sun. It's just hot and your skin gets gross (and potentially cancerous.) I just like eating/drinking in the warm breeze with the ocean noises. Doesn't even have to be on the actual beach.

Never go to Europe in the summer then, these are pretty empty overall compared to it.

These are St Lucia, St Barth and Tetiaroa, just a sample digged up from the last few months. St Barth has pretty of virgin beaches... Anyhow it is the best island in the world for us, we try to spend at least two weeks every year and vaguely plan to more semi permanent there (no income tax under certain conditions doesn't hurt either).

@RC: Sunny Isle is for tourists... We rarely go to South Beach, except for a few restaurants and maybe Lincoln Road, it is the worst part of Miami. Fur us this is what Miami is about, a little peace of quiet and heaven. Still looking for a nice beach there...

This was just voted one of the top 100 hotels in the world by one magazine, it is in Miami... Far (but not too far) from South Beach... And not on the beach.

Beaches in Miami will never come close to things like that (south of France):

intouch1:

I used to always fly LH First.....even if it meant more stops were included than the best routing.

but I have come to my senses a few years ago and now always opt for the shortest and quickest connection on whatever carrier. I go for the best seats available...

I have also changed the way I travel in including extra time...when I travel for business, I make sure that I have an extra day before the meeting and an extra day after....this takes the stress out of travelling and makes the flight and airport procedures much more relaxed.

owning a private plane makes sense once you spend a minimum of 300 hrs per annum in a plane

Unless you charter it... I have yet to find a way to make it work well though, so far all talk no real numbers...

noone1:

Can't say I ever find time very important. I get there when I get there and everything just waits for me. If it's important that I'm there on time, I'll just get there a day early.

My priorities when flying (always commercial) is seats and fight duration. I only fly first class on 14+ hour flights. Everything else, I just get economy comfort in the exit or bulkhead row. Plenty of room in those seats and they're almost always available to me. Can't lay down, but 7 hour flights are really short to me after having flown 14+ so often, not to mention how many of them have internet. Watch a few episodes or a movie, browse the web for a few hours, eat a little bit, and then you're landing.

The addition of Internet has totally changed flying for me. It's vastly more enjoyable and quicker to pass now.

You have indicated you have no kids... Try to fly to Europe overnight and not sleep then handle the kids next day... Plus for the dates, they have school (some school do not tolerate unexcused absences), and there are work and other obligations... Not that easy.

Could never imagine flying an entire family first class. That would cost like $30-50K just to Europe... That's insane.

Maybe a good solution would be to either bring a nanny or have you or your wife fly a day in advance, so one of you has had some rest upon the arrival of the kids?