Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL) - Page1

May 29, 2006 10:12:09 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

The new GT3 RS is finally here. It looks great, it looks hot and aggressive and I'm sure it drives great too.
But is the price tag justified? Isn't the new GT3 RS just a pumped up normal GT3 with a wider body but without the expected steroid addition?
Do you think the GT3 RS is an interesting product or just a Porsche marketing rip-off?
Please feel free to discuss it in this thread and to join our controversial poll.

We delayed the POLL start intentionally by a few hours, so people have time to check out the GT3 RS specs and to compare them to the normal GT3 model. I don't want people to rush into false/erratic conclusions.

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May 29, 2006 10:34:52 PM

luke: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 6, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Just thought I'd attach this PDF comparing some of the specifications between the GT3 and RS. While this has been posted elsewhere on the board, I thought it might be directly applicable to this poll.

Admins feel free to remove it if you feel it is inappropriate.

/uploads/230702-997_gt3_rs_technische_vergelijking.pdf

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May 29, 2006 10:46:56 PM

amazon: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Belgium , Belgium; Posts: 2110, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 5, 2004; Reply to: luke

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

CAn someone give us the exact prices of both cars. In euro and USD would be nice. I'll giive you my opinion afterwards.

But so far, it looks like a rip off. It's the same everything except for wider body, big wing and minus 20kg.

The breaks are the same, aren't they?

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May 29, 2006 10:53:29 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6083, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: amazon

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Quote:
amazon said:

The breaks are the same, aren't they?

Yep , they are

...

throt..

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May 29, 2006 10:57:27 PM

pierre: Veteran; Loc: there , Switzerland; Posts: 1192, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: throt

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Bucket seats are std on the RS, correct? Still, the delta seems a bit big...

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May 29, 2006 11:10:52 PM

sergini: Veteran; Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy; Posts: 1163, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 12, 2003; Reply to: pierre

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

RIP OFF !
this car is built only for homologation (ALMS ;int GT )
-20 kg ?? ahhhhhh!!! the "normal" 997 gt3 weight with buchet seats is the same!
narrow body is faster than widebody (with the same tires) ..

but ................it's wonderful !

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May 30, 2006 12:21:17 AM

DavidSF: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 525, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2003; Reply to: luke

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

After looking at the PDF, I conclude the GT3 RS, and its big flashy wing, is for poseurs!

David

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May 30, 2006 12:28:59 AM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: DavidSF

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

The only difference on the PDF is the drag coefficient and weight. Unless Porsche is cheating about the engine output for certifications, looks like a ripoff!

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May 30, 2006 12:31:00 AM

Damian: Senior; Loc: Pa, USA; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 10, 2005; Reply to: sergini

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Identical suspension, brakes and drivetrain to regular GT3!!

Bahhh, definitely a disappointment. To charge $5K extra (let alone $20K !!???) for the big butt,
special colors and PCM delete would be stretching credibility-- even for Porsche.

At a $20K RS price premium PAG should include a dozen weekends of priveleges on a closed track--
followed by cocktails with Walter R.

+ few sets track tires, comp 4year/50K maintenance or SOMETHING to justify....

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May 30, 2006 12:36:37 AM

Coochas: Co-Pilot; Loc: Boston, MA, USA; Posts: 221, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 19, 2006; Reply to: Damian

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

I like the color !!! LOL.
They've got our number though - 1st no spare tire in the 997, and now a plastic rear window in the RS.

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May 30, 2006 12:54:55 AM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: Coochas

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

I am changing my mind:

if true, the rollcage is an extra 60 lbs, fire extingisher 10 lbs, but CGT seats save 40 lbs. So the RS is 75 lbs lighter with the wider body. Don't know about AC and misc. though.

New tranny, new suspension, CGT seats, wing and CF parts, $20K doesn't seem too bad anymore, yet the engine should give more than mfr spec to sweeten the deal.

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May 30, 2006 1:10:38 AM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

OK, lets boil it all down. For $20k you get:

Special colors (orange, green)
CGT-esque seats
Ltw fly
Half cage
Widebody
Plastic rear window
Carbon wing
-40lbs

Am I missing anything?

Seems to be a better idea to put 10k into the seats, fly, cage. Use the other 10k for hookers and beer.

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May 30, 2006 1:33:06 AM

william: Senior; Loc: New York/Hong Kong , Hong Kong; Posts: 670, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2002; Reply to: frayed

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Different suspension system and cup tyres.

I think the reason why Porsche priced the RS much higher, is to avoid compeition with the GT3. Now it would make the GT3 seems like a good value. The RS will actually drive up the sales of the GT3.

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May 30, 2006 1:43:52 AM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: william

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

What's it matter if they sell?

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May 30, 2006 1:45:32 AM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: william

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Quote:
william said:
Different suspension system and cup tyres.

Nope, check the .pdf document. lists the same suspension and same tires. same front wheels. same rear wheels except offset.

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May 30, 2006 1:57:11 AM

Trundle_GT3: Veteran; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 1016, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: frayed

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

From the press release

Quote:
The available finishes are Arctic Silver metallic or black; as an option, the GT3 can also be obtained in orange or green.

Will the Optional colors be free or for a price?

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May 30, 2006 1:58:46 AM

william: Senior; Loc: New York/Hong Kong , Hong Kong; Posts: 670, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2002; Reply to: frayed

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Quote:
frayed said:
Quote:
william said:
Different suspension system and cup tyres.

Nope, check the .pdf document. lists the same suspension and same tires. same front wheels. same rear wheels except offset.

Slight difference in suspension setup, it has split wishbones on the rear axle according to germancarfans.com

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May 30, 2006 2:13:01 AM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: william

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

That's what people assumed from the press release. According to Porsche's comparison sheet, it lists the same suspension setup.

Not sure how to attach a pdf on this board. Check it here:

http://www.porschecentrumeindhoven.nl/po...ergelijking.pdf

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May 30, 2006 2:41:25 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: frayed

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Quote:
frayed said:
Quote:
william said:
Different suspension system and cup tyres.

Nope, check the .pdf document. lists the same suspension and same tires. same front wheels. same rear wheels except offset.

Supposedly, there are different wheel carriers and split wishbone suspension on the RS...

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May 30, 2006 3:28:49 AM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

that's not what the Porsche detailed comparo document supports. the press release can be interpreted as the same as the gt3 or different from the gt3.

i'm betting its the same. i think people are getting ahead of themselves assuming the suspension is different. heck, the entire rear track increse is due is due SOLELY to the change in rear wheel offset (34mm increase in track due to each wheel having 17mm less offset).

"With a view to the registration regulations for the important Gran Tourismo championships as future fields of application, the road version of the GT3 RS has resorted to technical solutions that will also feature in the racing version. These solutions will include the entire wheel carrier and split wishbones on the rear axle, in addition to the carbon fiber components of the body."

The comparo document states the following for both cars:

"Multi-link suspension, wheels supported individually on 5 control arms, control arm divided (adjustable camber), one cylindrical coil spring per wheel with coaxial internal double acting hydraulic single-tube gas-filled damper"

And this for the front axle:

"Spring strut suspension, wheels individually on wishbones with trailing links and spring struts, divided control arm (camber adjustment), Unibal front supporing mount (McPherson type, Porsche optimised). One cylindrical spring per wheel wiht progressive characteristic and internal single-tube gas filled damper. Damper with double clamping to the wheel carrier."

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May 30, 2006 7:57:27 AM

sergini: Veteran; Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy; Posts: 1163, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 12, 2003; Reply to: frayed

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

"These solutions will include the entire wheel carrier and split wishbones on the rear axle" .....please explain

I don't understand

an other question : "Thanks to a close-ratio six-speed transmission " .....ok !
but in the pdf both cars have the same gears :

2. Power transmission
1st gear 3.82 3.82 3.82

Manual gearbox
(transmission ratio)
2nd gear 2.26 2.26 2.15
3rd gear 1.64 1.64 1.56
4th gear 1.29 1.29 1.21
5th gear 1.06 1.06 1.00
6th gear 0.92 0.92 0.85
Reverse gear 2.86 2.86 2.86
Final drive ratio, rear axle 3.44 3.44 3.44
Clutch diameter mm / in 240 / 9.45 240 / 9.45 240 / 9.45

so??????

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May 30, 2006 8:19:13 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: sergini

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Sergio got it right! Porsche marketing at work...

But, 997GT3RS will be faster at Hockenheim around 1s then 997GT3 and at Nordschleife around 4s faster! If you plan to track your GT3RS then it is worth the extra price. Honestly, I like it more then regular GT3...

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May 30, 2006 8:24:27 AM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

I believe that the 997 GT3 is just one porsche like all others...
GT3 RS is something different though... between these 2 i would definetely go for RS version..

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May 30, 2006 8:28:47 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Aisxos, I agree with you!

Despite the little bit "strange" price tag I think that GT3RS is the most pure form of true sportscar of all Porsche's in current model line up...

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May 30, 2006 8:35:38 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

we still have not times of gt3 rs on the nordschleife, but I doubt it will be a lot faster (max. 2-3 seconds)

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May 30, 2006 8:58:06 AM

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Netherlands; Posts: 8059, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2004; Reply to: andrea

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Can somebody specify the differences between the Carerra RS 2.7 and the standard Carrera of 73? And the same for the 964 RS and the standard Carrera of that time? Would be kinda interesting! I know a lot of people were very disappointed when the 996 GT3 RS was introduced, because it differed too little from the standard 996 GT3. Now we are having the same discussion. Even I am under the idea that porsche did an easy job now, but don't know whether that is just, so therefore I would like to see comparos of older models.
-Joost-

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May 30, 2006 9:07:37 AM

pierre: Veteran; Loc: there , Switzerland; Posts: 1192, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: sergini

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Quote:
sergini said:
an other question : "Thanks to a close-ratio six-speed transmission " .....ok !
but in the pdf both cars have the same gears :

People interpret it as "closer-ratio tranny than normal GT3" where it barely says "close-ratio tranny"...

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May 30, 2006 9:17:49 AM

ed_moree: Rennteam Pro; Loc: spain , China; Posts: 2407, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

I have post this before on the forum:

I don't know you guys, for me it looks the business, I'm sure it will do the business, but don't you have the impression that the only real difference to the GT3 are just the 20kg less in weight, the Carrera 4 body and the 20000 Euro more? I kinda feel a little bit disappointed!!! I mean come on I can get all that weight less as some of you said before just ordering the bucket seats in a GT3 and pay, what... 4000 Euro more? I'm sorry if I have spoiled someones party, but it is just the impression that it is not that much more to the GT3.... more track oriented, and focused, but it is worth 20000 Euro more?

I mean the 996 GT3 RS was looking like a little bit more compared to the 996 GT3, don't you think so?

Maybe some of you will don't agree, and they have the reason due to the fact that I didn't even driven any of the existing GT3 variants, but just cool head not heart, to me it seems that 0,1 seconds in acceleration will simply not make that much difference.... to pay so much more..... You know it looks the business, but it will be so much more than just the looks? Because comparing them just on paper.... to me it looks like not. I will really like to read your replays.....

I agree with you RC, to me it seems like not justified the 20000euro price difference between RS and the standard GT3

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May 30, 2006 10:17:51 AM

TEE: Veteran; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 929, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 5, 2003; Reply to: ed_moree

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Quote:
ed_moree said:
I have post this before on the forum:

I don't know you guys, for me it looks the business, I'm sure it will do the business, but don't you have the impression that the only real difference to the GT3 are just the 20kg less in weight, the Carrera 4 body and the 20000 Euro more? I kinda feel a little bit disappointed!!! I mean come on I can get all that weight less as some of you said before just ordering the bucket seats in a GT3 and pay, what... 4000 Euro more? I'm sorry if I have spoiled someones party, but it is just the impression that it is not that much more to the GT3.... more track oriented, and focused, but it is worth 20000 Euro more?

I mean the 996 GT3 RS was looking like a little bit more compared to the 996 GT3, don't you think so?

Maybe some of you will don't agree, and they have the reason due to the fact that I didn't even driven any of the existing GT3 variants, but just cool head not heart, to me it seems that 0,1 seconds in acceleration will simply not make that much difference.... to pay so much more..... You know it looks the business, but it will be so much more than just the looks? Because comparing them just on paper.... to me it looks like not. I will really like to read your replays.....

I agree with you RC, to me it seems like not justified the 20000euro price difference between RS and the standard GT3

2 observations:

Weight. It is true the buckets are 20kg weight savings. But then again there is the cage (not sure what that actually weights) so they must have done a few other things to reduce weight. In any event it should have been more.

Price. I though the car is Euro 15k more not Euro 20k. The buckets are Euro 5k of that so you need to net it. Not sure that C4 body cost more then the C2. Hence I think the rest is a pure marketing margin. If you want orange or green you will need to pay extra... Black wheels normally cost Euro 1k so that could be a saving for some.

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May 30, 2006 12:35:41 PM

RR4: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2003; Reply to: TEE

Re: GT3 RS - Great Product or Rip-Off? (POLL)

Why are we basing our conclusions on this pdf from that website?
I know that dealer is listed as a dealer in Porsche's website but if it was an offical pdf, I doubt very much that firstly, Porsche would compare the 3 cars, ie 996 GT3, 997GT3 and the 997GT3RS like that AND even if they would I doubt they wouldn't use the words new (new) in brackets the way its listed on that pdf to identify the 997GT3RS, looks strange.

Also notice that on the pdf the Porsche logo is missing the (R) registered mark beside it. If this was a Porsche pdf it wouldn't be missing that.

I'm actually tempted to email someone there to confirm this information if someone ahsnt done so already.

Does anyone know this dealer and know where he got this info?
What kind of confirmation do we have that these are the real specs?

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