Crown

Dr. Phil:

OK, turns out it has been used as a trackday car. The salesman made no excuses about it having been "punished" the first 1,500 km of its life. 
They then "forgot" to change the brakes, and apparently didn´t see fit to tell me about its past before renting it to me at full price. Brilliant.

@RC: Yes, the engine is an absolute gem. Probably among the top-10 exhaust sounds out there, and it manages to combine civilized driving experience with beastly power. I can´t see why you would not love having one as your DD or backup.

Sorry to hear about the deceitful practices at your dealership.  Was under the impression that unscrupulous automobile sales people were more of a phenomenon of North America, not the EU.  However, do agree about your comments on the RS3 as a daily driver and this was the point one attempted to make regarding the TT RS, which shares much of its drivetrain with the RS3, on the 991.2 GTS forum.  The RS3 and TT RS represent excellent performance value even when compared to cars at higher pricing points.  Will the TT RS outperform a GTS on the track? No.  However, the TT RS is just as quick, if not quicker, in everyday driving, and its acquisition price is a fraction of that of the GTS.  One is more apt to take the RS3 or TT RS to a parking lot versus the GTS.

I don't know about Denmark but the Audi lease offers in Germany, for most of their models, are often ridiculously low. No Porsche lease deal can compete with them and the cars are usually cheaper anyway and/or get high rebates as well (even if you lease). Quality is also top notch.

I see however a "pattern" with Audi demo cars (tracking, 24h Experience, etc.), so it may be intentionally but at least they do the right thing when "caught".   

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Joost:

Also, even if all is on the dealer, they now got rid of a car that would have been more difficult to sell/lease out if it had been in the open. So, it still was benificial for them to "conveniently forget" to tell you the history of this car and "convenientyl forget" to properly replace wear items. 

Maybe it was really unintentionally, maybe it was. Fact of the matter is that they have the disadvantage of the doubt (opposite of benefit of the doubt) and all trust between you and the dealer is gone, UNLESS they are VERY forthcoming to compensate you for any inconvenience you may have experienced. I understand your anger and can imagine you wil never buy/lease any car from them again ever.

Spot on. This is a "convenient mistake" on their part. Of course they chose not to tell me up front, because they KNEW it would have been near-impossible to lease it to me (or anyone else), at least at that price point.
It´s a classic used car salesman trick.
Whether it takes place in a sleazy dealership or on the polished floors of an Audi showroom, the methods are the same. Unfortunately.

I too assume they knew before and didn't forget to tell you.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Agreed.

Did you ask about the car's history Lasse? Or in blue eyed nativity you expected the car salesman to tell you everything? 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

bluelines:

Did you ask about the car's history Lasse? Or in blue eyed nativity you expected the car salesman to tell you everything? 

In Lasse's defense, I was blue eyed as well but I was lucky afterwards. I was used to a different "openness", my Porsche dealer and I have a special relationship because he never lies to me. At least I didn't catch him yet.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

I find it rather interesting that still a owners Manual Claims to run the car in - yet a dealer takes them to track the first 1500 km.....- we've all been guilty doing this with testcars - but still........

BjoernB:

I find it rather interesting that still a owners Manual Claims to run the car in - yet a dealer takes them to track the first 1500 km.....- we've all been guilty doing this with testcars - but still........

My general manager took the car to the track (Audi show event, nothing serious, I saw photos) at 1000 km (exactly at 1016 km). The engine needs no run-in but it is safer to keep it on the slower side for the first 2000-3000 km because of loose screws and defective parts. Since nothing happened...  Modern parts don't really need a run-in anymore, only the tire/brakes run-in for the first 300 km or so are important.

I agree though: If they do something like that, they should tell the customer. I was lucky, others maybe not. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Update: Audi keeps focusing on the practical aspects of the car. Claims the car has been working as it should and hence there is no problem other than the navi not being installed from the get-go.
A you know, I see it differently.

This rental agreement also gives me the option to buy the car after the rental period, in which case they will deduct the rental payments from the car´s sales price. Again; back to my main issue: I then pay full price for a car that has been used on a track and consequently lose money once I want to sell it later on. At least if I am honest and tell the next potential buyer about its track/Audi Experience history.

Also: Ironically the rental contract states that it´s not legal to take the car to the track. I wonder why...

Bottom line: I feel totally pissed off and feel that I am getting a worse deal than I thought I did. 
I can now either waste money and time on lawyers etc - or take it up the ass. Or do my best to tell other ppl who potentially want to rent or buy an Audi about my experiences. Not really something that helps me.
Makes me feel even more silly that I actually have been taking really good care of the car from day one.
Seems I would have been better off just driving it like a maniac like they did themselves.

But oh, well. What did I expect from the company behind the Diesel scandal. Silly me.

LOL, tell him you'll have BDSM sex with his mother in his bed and ask him whether he would still want to have the bed afterwards... If he says no, then tell him that that's exactly how you feel about the car. If he says "yes, but please put clean sheets on it", then tell him you feel the same about the car, followed by a request for a shitload of free of charge courtesy stuff (free maintenance, winter wheels, what have you). If he says he would still take the bed but for a reduced price, then... well, you catch my drift :-)

In any case explain him that you feel mistreated and lied too, withdraw the car from any stuff they can make money from and find a way to make sure they loose as much money as possible on the car... Talk to some guys in the car lease/rent/sales business to find out what incentives they (the dealership) have and make sure to rube their faces in it at the end of the lease period.

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

The fact that in the lease's contact they state that you can't track the car, yet they tracked it the moment it came from the factory and did not disclose this to you, and when caught because they are so sloopy they forgot to replace the brakes, they say that its still OK cause the car is working fine, is a contradiction that leaves then in a rather poor light 

Thought about contacting who ever is above their heads?

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

@joost
Hahaha  I was thinking about using an analogy of virgins vs prostitutes, but your metaphor works even better 
I´ll surely explain exactly how I feel - however, at the end of the day, they won´t do anything or compensate me 2 cents if there is no incentive/consequence. And great idea; I´ll talk to a guy I know in the leasing business 

@Carlos
Yes, it boggles the mind.
I don´t think they care one bit about being in a bad light. The very fact that they behave the way they do, tells me that they don´t. They cheated thousands with the Diesel-cheat; why would they think twice about cheating an RS3 rental client.
I have contacts to upper management - but the guy who is my liaison tells me they will stick to their guns and not compensate me. I´m told that the legal aspect will be one of "the car is PHYSICALLY working as promised, so we owe you nothing. The fact that the brakes should have been replaced means nothing, since the squeeking didn´t affect the ability to brake and posed no safety risk". 
The whole aspect of driving pleasure, not being transparent and disclosing its track history etc will be seen as something of no consequence, since it´s a rental not a car I purchased.

It´s a load of BS. 
I´m so pissed off right now, I can´t think straight. So I won´t do anything before I´m in a calmer place.
Then we´ll see how I attack this 

Force them to take the car back?

Dr. Phil:

@joost
Hahaha  I was thinking about using an analogy of virgins vs prostitutes, but your metaphor works even better 
I´ll surely explain exactly how I feel - however, at the end of the day, they won´t do anything or compensate me 2 cents if there is no incentive/consequence. And great idea; I´ll talk to a guy I know in the leasing business 

@Carlos
Yes, it boggles the mind.
I don´t think they care one bit about being in a bad light. The very fact that they behave the way they do, tells me that they don´t. They cheated thousands with the Diesel-cheat; why would they think twice about cheating an RS3 rental client.
I have contacts to upper management - but the guy who is my liaison tells me they will stick to their guns and not compensate me. I´m told that the legal aspect will be one of "the car is PHYSICALLY working as promised, so we owe you nothing. The fact that the brakes should have been replaced means nothing, since the squeeking didn´t affect the ability to brake and posed no safety risk". 
The whole aspect of driving pleasure, not being transparent and disclosing its track history etc will be seen as something of no consequence, since it´s a rental not a car I purchased.

It´s a load of BS. 
I´m so pissed off right now, I can´t think straight. So I won´t do anything before I´m in a calmer place.
Then we´ll see how I attack this 

Lasse,

I totally understand your point of view and would probably feel similar. The thing is, you and probably many other here have a different view on how to treat a car. That is something those people do not understand. I bet that your dealership is a rather large one, this lack of interest is typical for big companies where the single one doesn´t count. The BMW dealer that we service my GF´s car at is run by the owner and his family and you feel that as soon as you enter. It is a different vibe than those big dealerships that are part of a network and belong to a bigger holding, preferably even selling different brands. The indididual, no matter how motivated he or she is, will at some point lose the enthusiasm and care more for numbers and sales pitches than for happy customers. It is sad but definitely the reality and applicable to many brands. It doesn´t have anything to do with Audi, the Volkswagen Group or anything else but much more with the dealership.

To the issue itself, I don´t know if it is by law necessary to mention track use to the customer but, as you said, prohibiting track use while using the very same car on track is quite awkward. See the positive side that they admitted this track use instead of denying it and blaming you for excessive wear. Don´t be mad for too long, that´s not helping anyone after all. 

After all, I´d say Joost´s negotiation method is superb. 

Ferdie:

Lasse,

I totally understand your point of view and would probably feel similar. The thing is, you and probably many other here have a different view on how to treat a car. That is something those people do not understand. I bet that your dealership is a rather large one, this lack of interest is typical for big companies where the single one doesn´t count. The BMW dealer that we service my GF´s car at is run by the owner and his family and you feel that as soon as you enter. It is a different vibe than those big dealerships that are part of a network and belong to a bigger holding, preferably even selling different brands. The indididual, no matter how motivated he or she is, will at some point lose the enthusiasm and care more for numbers and sales pitches than for happy customers. It is sad but definitely the reality and applicable to many brands. It doesn´t have anything to do with Audi, the Volkswagen Group or anything else but much more with the dealership.

To the issue itself, I don´t know if it is by law necessary to mention track use to the customer but, as you said, prohibiting track use while using the very same car on track is quite awkward. See the positive side that they admitted this track use instead of denying it and blaming you for excessive wear. Don´t be mad for too long, that´s not helping anyone after all. 

After all, I´d say Joost´s negotiation method is superb. 

Hey Ferdie,

thanks mate 
I completely agree. They don´t give a f#ck.
I was actually thinking about having stickers made and putting them on the car:
"DON´T RENT A CAR FROM AUDI - THEY LIE AND CHEAT" and then a link to "FuckMyAudi.com" 

I read about a man who did something similar - I wonder if I can find that article and get some inspiration 

Dr. Phil:

Ferdie:

Lasse,

I totally understand your point of view and would probably feel similar. The thing is, you and probably many other here have a different view on how to treat a car. That is something those people do not understand. I bet that your dealership is a rather large one, this lack of interest is typical for big companies where the single one doesn´t count. The BMW dealer that we service my GF´s car at is run by the owner and his family and you feel that as soon as you enter. It is a different vibe than those big dealerships that are part of a network and belong to a bigger holding, preferably even selling different brands. The indididual, no matter how motivated he or she is, will at some point lose the enthusiasm and care more for numbers and sales pitches than for happy customers. It is sad but definitely the reality and applicable to many brands. It doesn´t have anything to do with Audi, the Volkswagen Group or anything else but much more with the dealership.

To the issue itself, I don´t know if it is by law necessary to mention track use to the customer but, as you said, prohibiting track use while using the very same car on track is quite awkward. See the positive side that they admitted this track use instead of denying it and blaming you for excessive wear. Don´t be mad for too long, that´s not helping anyone after all. 

After all, I´d say Joost´s negotiation method is superb. 

Hey Ferdie,

thanks mate 
I completely agree. They don´t give a f#ck.
I was actually thinking about having stickers made and putting them on the car:
"DON´T RENT A CAR FROM AUDI - THEY LIE AND CHEAT" and then a link to "FuckMyAudi.com" 

I read about a man who did something similar - I wonder if I can find that article and get some inspiration 

I've been following your thread from the start and I feel your pain.

Do you have a friend in DK who practices law ? Sometimes, you just need a letter form a lawyer to scare the shit out of them and make things happen.

Good luck with everything & keep us posted.

amazon:

I've been following your thread from the start and I feel your pain.

Do you have a friend in DK who practices law ? Sometimes, you just need a letter form a lawyer to scare the shit out of them and make things happen.

Good luck with everything & keep us posted.

Hey Amazon,
thanks 
No, I don´t have a lawyer friend unfortunately. I know one, but it will cost me money to have him research and write a letter to them.

However, I found this other method 

Lasse - I know you have contacts in the media.  You should tell those douche-bags, who you did the deal with, that you will be disclosing the facts to your local newspaper, your local radio station and your local TV executives..!!

This is so wrong, in it's entirety, that the Nation should know about it!!

You are just the man to get a result without resorting to expensive legal action... Go and 'gettum' - best of luck my friend...

"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

Lasse - I know you have contacts in the media.  You should tell those douche-bags, who you did the deal with, that you will be disclosing the facts to your local newspaper, your local radio station and your local TV executives..!!

This is so wrong, in it's entirety, that the Nation should know about it!!

You are just the man to get a result without resorting to expensive legal action... Go and 'gettum' - best of luck my friend...

Great idea John  go for it Lasse!!

It's a real shame you've had your experience with this otherwise great car badly tarnished by your dishonest and shabby dealer as you made it obvious here how much you were rightly looking forward to getting behind the wheel of this car 

--

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Volvo V40 D4 R Design daily drive

John H:

Lasse - I know you have contacts in the media.  You should tell those douche-bags, who you did the deal with, that you will be disclosing the facts to your local newspaper, your local radio station and your local TV executives..!!

This is so wrong, in it's entirety, that the Nation should know about it!!

You are just the man to get a result without resorting to expensive legal action... Go and 'gettum' - best of luck my friend...

Hey John 
Yes, ironically I´ve just been asked by two prod. companies if I wanna do some TV shows/series - but unfortunately (in this context) it´s about divorce  But yes, you´re right - it would be the lowest-hanging fruits for me in terms of getting Audi to listen, or at least warn others.
My main issue is, that it´s not a slam-dunk story for the media:
"Old grandma gets cheated by nasty automotive mastodont" sells more tickets than "Man with expensive performance Audi got a car that was driven hard before he got it.." 
But yes. It DEFINITELY is part of my thought process.
Not sure if I´m gonna try to use this as leverage with Audi before I do it.
They´ve probably heard the old "Do you know who you are messing with, do ya, punk??" - threat before.
Argh. Such a waste of good energy 

And thanks a bunch for your support! I really appreciate it 

Very inspirational 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring/article-1190340/Rovers-revenge-Furious-driver-dumps-50-000-Range-Rover-outside-showroom--emb...

Dr. Phil:

Update: Audi keeps focusing on the practical aspects of the car. Claims the car has been working as it should and hence there is no problem other than the navi not being installed from the get-go.
A you know, I see it differently.

This rental agreement also gives me the option to buy the car after the rental period, in which case they will deduct the rental payments from the car´s sales price. Again; back to my main issue: I then pay full price for a car that has been used on a track and consequently lose money once I want to sell it later on. At least if I am honest and tell the next potential buyer about its track/Audi Experience history.

Also: Ironically the rental contract states that it´s not legal to take the car to the track. I wonder why...

Bottom line: I feel totally pissed off and feel that I am getting a worse deal than I thought I did. 
I can now either waste money and time on lawyers etc - or take it up the ass. Or do my best to tell other ppl who potentially want to rent or buy an Audi about my experiences. Not really something that helps me.
Makes me feel even more silly that I actually have been taking really good care of the car from day one.
Seems I would have been better off just driving it like a maniac like they did themselves.

But oh, well. What did I expect from the company behind the Diesel scandal. Silly me.

Contact Audi directly.

Tracking a demo car and not telling the customer is not the usual usage for a demo car. 

My dealership was fair enough to acknowledge this, they even offered to take the car back but like I said before, I know the guy who drove the car, I know how much he loves cars and I know that he would never abuse them. Also, I talked to him about the track and it was a show event for customers, no serious track racing and he was the only one who drove the car for the first 1500-200 km (first 1000 km were run-in kilometers as the legal driver's log clearly states).

The offer to exchange the whole brake system was generous (first they wanted to replace the calipers only but the general manager said this is nonsense, so they did the whole thing).

However, it took me over two weeks  to get ahold of the general manager and I was really lucky to find out that we actually knew each other from his Porsche days. Once the talks started, everything went on smoothly.

If the local dealership isn't willing to "give" you anything, take it up a notch to Audi.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Dr. Phil:

Very inspirational 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring/article-1190340/Rovers-revenge-Furious-driver-dumps-50-000-Range-Rover-outside-showroom--emb...

Lasse, I know that you are frustrated and it is understandable but let's be real here: Is your car actually defective? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

SciFrog:

Force them to take the car back?

My dealership offered to take it back when we had that chat about the track driving but I was lucky because I knew who drove the car and that person (general manager) was more than generous.

I think Lasse has a good chance to return the car back to the dealership but of course he will loose money in the process.

If the car is technically OK and has the extended warranty, I would keep it, ask for a small "compensation" of some sorts (besides the brake system parts renewal, at least pads and maybe discs if there is visible wear) but I would probably not buy it after the lease ends.

Also, let's be serious here: The RS3 is no typical track car, so how much abuse could there have been?! 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Lasse, while they say the car is functioning properly you could counter argue that part of the deal is the option for the client to buy the car when the lease ends and that is now void since the car had been tracked, which can not only cause problems down the line after the lease when the warranty runs out due to the abuse of the track but also the resale value of the car when you sell it will be lower than a regular demo car when you paid regular price for it as they unethically hid that it was a track car to charge you regular price, and evidence of all of this is that they themselves especially wrote in the contract that you could not track the car during the lease in case you returned after the lease so that all this would not happen to them.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Lasse, while they say the car is functioning properly you could counter argue that part of the deal is the option for the client to buy the car when the lease ends and that is now void since the car had been tracked, which can not only cause problems down the line after the lease when the warranty runs out due to the abuse of the track but also the resale value of the car when you sell it will be lower than a regular demo car when you paid regular price for it as they unethically hid that it was a track car to charge you regular price, and evidence of all of this is that they themselves especially wrote in the contract that you could not track the car during the lease in case you returned after the lease so that all this would not happen to them.

Carlos, I don't know how it works (legally) in Denmark but in Germany, buying the car after the lease ends, cannot be written in the contract because it is actually...not legal.  People do it anyway but usually unofficially and without anything written. What can be done black on white is the remaining value of the car but to buy it, things get (a little bit) complicated.

So in Germany, buying the car after the lease cannot be used as an argument to fight the lease contract and it is possible that it isn't much different in Denmark as well.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Carlos from Spain:

Lasse, while they say the car is functioning properly you could counter argue that part of the deal is the option for the client to buy the car when the lease ends and that is now void since the car had been tracked, which can not only cause problems down the line after the lease when the warranty runs out due to the abuse of the track but also the resale value of the car when you sell it will be lower than a regular demo car when you paid regular price for it as they unethically hid that it was a track car to charge you regular price, and evidence of all of this is that they themselves especially wrote in the contract that you could not track the car during the lease in case you returned after the lease so that all this would not happen to them.

Carlos, I don't know how it works (legally) in Denmark but in Germany, buying the car after the lease ends, cannot be written in the contract because it is actually...not legal.  People do it anyway but usually unofficially and without anything written. What can be done black on white is the remaining value of the car but to buy it, things get (a little bit) complicated.

So in Germany, buying the car after the lease cannot be used as an argument to fight the lease contract and it is possible that it isn't much different in Denmark as well.

He did mention above "This rental agreement also gives me the option to buy the car after the rental period, in which case they will deduct the rental payments from the car´s sales price" so I assumed the buyback option is either written in the rental agreement, at the very least a verbal agreement he could use for that argument.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

RC:

Carlos from Spain:

Lasse, while they say the car is functioning properly you could counter argue that part of the deal is the option for the client to buy the car when the lease ends and that is now void since the car had been tracked, which can not only cause problems down the line after the lease when the warranty runs out due to the abuse of the track but also the resale value of the car when you sell it will be lower than a regular demo car when you paid regular price for it as they unethically hid that it was a track car to charge you regular price, and evidence of all of this is that they themselves especially wrote in the contract that you could not track the car during the lease in case you returned after the lease so that all this would not happen to them.

Carlos, I don't know how it works (legally) in Denmark but in Germany, buying the car after the lease ends, cannot be written in the contract because it is actually...not legal.  People do it anyway but usually unofficially and without anything written. What can be done black on white is the remaining value of the car but to buy it, things get (a little bit) complicated.

So in Germany, buying the car after the lease cannot be used as an argument to fight the lease contract and it is possible that it isn't much different in Denmark as well.

He did mention above "This rental agreement also gives me the option to buy the car after the rental period, in which case they will deduct the rental payments from the car´s sales price" so I assumed the buyback option is either written in the rental agreement, at the very least a verbal agreement he could use for that argument.

I know but maybe this is part of a second agreement which is not part of the legal lease contract (which is not a rental contract because this would be handled differently, legally and fiscal) but thats a different story .

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

I think the fact that they put in his contract that HE cannot track the car - but admitted that they have tracked it before even suggested run-in period play all Cards towards Lasse. I would invest in 1 letter from a laywer if he has the same opinion....this is not right by all common-senses.