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    Apr 16, 2006 1:55:56 PM

    fritz
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    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: The Groom

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Even cars like the Honda Accords and Hyundaes have LEDs. It's inexcusable for Porsche not to have them on a new 2007 model.


    Porsche has higher standards than other manufacturers. Many mainstream manufacturers will rush out a new feature if it brings a significant marketing advantage. Porsche often prefers to wait until the technology actually works 100%.

    Remember how the E-class came out loaded with new electronic gizmos, which proved a reliabilty disaster? Remember how the first F1 and SMG transmissions were jerky and ate clutches in just a few thousand miles?
    Porsche isn't 100% perfect either in this regard (first-generation PCCB comes to mind), but they do have a better track record.



    What I don't get is, what's supposed to be so great about LED lights?

    When I'm sitting behind the wheel of my car, I couldn't see my own LED lights anyway, so big deal.

    And when I'm driving behind another car, if I'm relying on the car in front having LED braking lights which light up the odd thousandth of a second faster than conventional light bulbs, I'm doing something very wrong anyway.

    Is this just something for kids who always have to have the latest toys.

    Apr 16, 2006 2:01:45 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Is this just something for kids who always have to have the latest toys.



    It is more about the weird decision to offer LED turning lights (which is pretty much a new feature on cars) but no LED backlights (a pretty much "old" feature). Some sort of weird "break" in the exterior design concept in my opinion.

    Apr 16, 2006 2:42:55 PM

    intouch1
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    intouch1
    Loc: Red Sea , Egypt
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    yes, it indeed is weird. typical for porsche. always go to 85% never the whole way...

    Apr 16, 2006 2:45:19 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59590, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: intouch1

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    yes, it indeed is weird. typical for porsche. always go to 85% never the whole way...



    Very well said.

    Apr 16, 2006 3:02:44 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
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    Reply to: intouch1

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    yes, it indeed is weird. typical for porsche. always go to 85% never the whole way...



    Yeh, well we all know what happens to innocent young maidens who go all the way. They frequently get left with a bundle of problems when things work out differently than they intended.

    It's not always a good idea to be a wholesale early adopter of new technology, especially if it does not have distinct advantages over the old tech it replaces.

    Apr 16, 2006 3:03:19 PM

    Crash
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    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Even cars like the Honda Accords and Hyundaes have LEDs. It's inexcusable for Porsche not to have them on a new 2007 model.


    Porsche has higher standards than other manufacturers. Many mainstream manufacturers will rush out a new feature if it brings a significant marketing advantage. Porsche often prefers to wait until the technology actually works 100%.

    Remember how the E-class came out loaded with new electronic gizmos, which proved a reliabilty disaster? Remember how the first F1 and SMG transmissions were jerky and ate clutches in just a few thousand miles?
    Porsche isn't 100% perfect either in this regard (first-generation PCCB comes to mind), but they do have a better track record.



    What I don't get is, what's supposed to be so great about LED lights?

    When I'm sitting behind the wheel of my car, I couldn't see my own LED lights anyway, so big deal.

    And when I'm driving behind another car, if I'm relying on the car in front having LED braking lights which light up the odd thousandth of a second faster than conventional light bulbs, I'm doing something very wrong anyway.

    Is this just something for kids who always have to have the latest toys.



    Most LED brake lights also set off my V1 laser detector. It's pretty unnerving, so I'm happy as long as only a few cars have them.

    Apr 16, 2006 4:06:04 PM

    Mussl Kar
    Junior
    Mussl Kar
    Loc: Boston area
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    The SL55 has LED brake lights all round and while I have never seen them myself, friends who have followed me at night have commented that they really get their attention when they light up.

    Apr 16, 2006 4:17:20 PM

    fritz
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    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
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    Reply to: Mussl Kar

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    Mussl Kar said:
    The SL55 has LED brake lights all round and while I have never seen them myself, friends who have followed me at night have commented that they really get their attention when they light up.


    That's probably what it's all about. Getting attention.

    @ Nberry: Hey, Nick, does your F430 have LED lights?

    Apr 16, 2006 9:05:11 PM

    Matt C
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    Matt C
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    That's probably what it's all about. Getting attention.




    That's not really so bad, especially when the lights belong to the car in front of you that is breaking pretty abrupt and pretty hard.

    Apr 16, 2006 9:27:15 PM

    fritz
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    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
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    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: Matt C

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    Matt C said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    That's probably what it's all about. Getting attention.




    That's not really so bad, especially when the lights belong to the car in front of you that is breaking pretty abrupt and pretty hard.



    I'd already covered this ground in an earlier post above:

    "And when I'm driving behind another car, if I'm relying on the car in front having LED braking lights which light up the odd thousandth of a second faster than conventional light bulbs, I'm doing something very wrong anyway."

    Apr 16, 2006 10:29:25 PM

    W8MM
    Rennteam Master
    W8MM
    Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    Crash said:Most LED brake lights also set off my V1 laser detector. It's pretty unnerving, so I'm happy as long as only a few cars have them.



    Not true!

    The CHMSLs that cause your V1 to alert for laser are NEON, not LED. LEDs tail lamps have much too slow a rise time and have only visible wavelengths to emit. Neon lamps have a broad spectrum of wavelengths (including laser-used near-IR) and have very fast (nanosecond) optical rise times that mimic laser all too well.

    All rear warning lamps should be LED. No laser interference!

    Apr 16, 2006 10:32:25 PM

    svtrader1
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    svtrader1
    Loc:
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    Registered on: Oct 17, 2003
    Reply to: The Groom

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Even cars like the Honda Accords and Hyundaes have LEDs. It's inexcusable for Porsche not to have them on a new 2007 model.


    Porsche has higher standards than other manufacturers. Many mainstream manufacturers will rush out a new feature if it brings a significant marketing advantage. Porsche often prefers to wait until the technology actually works 100%.

    Remember how the E-class came out loaded with new electronic gizmos, which proved a reliabilty disaster? Remember how the first F1 and SMG transmissions were jerky and ate clutches in just a few thousand miles?
    Porsche isn't 100% perfect either in this regard (first-generation PCCB comes to mind), but they do have a better track record.



    You must've missed RC's post regarding the CGT's LED then.

    What percentage does that knock Porsche down to now?

    Apr 16, 2006 10:36:35 PM

    W8MM
    Rennteam Master
    W8MM
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    Registered on: Aug 8, 2003
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    fritz said:I'd already covered this ground in an earlier post above:

    "And when I'm driving behind another car, if I'm relying on the car in front having LED braking lights which light up the odd thousandth of a second faster than conventional light bulbs, I'm doing something very wrong anyway."



    Fritz, my man. You're wearing the shoe on the wrong foot!

    I like having LED brake lights on the Carrera GT. It gives any possible moron following me too closely an extra third of a second, or so, to finally make up his/her mind to slow down, too!

    I don't want them eating my muffler, irrespective of the cause. They don't have PCCB. And, I have no desire to give them a too slow warning.

    What does it hinder to speed up their braking response?

    Apr 16, 2006 10:39:19 PM

    Turbo Al Offline
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    Turbo Al
    Loc: Rochester, New York , United States
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    All rear warning lamps should be LED. No laser interference!



    That would certainly be ONE government-mandated automobile manufacturing requirement I would endorse.

    Apr 16, 2006 10:39:59 PM

    rhino
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    And they look beautiful on the CGT

    Apr 16, 2006 10:49:03 PM

    svtrader1
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    svtrader1
    Loc:
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Matt C said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    That's probably what it's all about. Getting attention.




    That's not really so bad, especially when the lights belong to the car in front of you that is breaking pretty abrupt and pretty hard.



    I'd already covered this ground in an earlier post above:

    "And when I'm driving behind another car, if I'm relying on the car in front having LED braking lights which light up the odd thousandth of a second faster than conventional light bulbs, I'm doing something very wrong anyway."



    Not neccesarily.

    Imagine you're driving and there is somebody behind you, then you're about to approach a blind turn with that same car behind you, now you've completed the turn, but, you're totally out of sight from the car behind you, suddenly you slam your brakes, because, there's a deer in the road, a fallen tree, or loose rocks. Well, the driver behind you can't your car, but, he can see your brake lights, because LEDs are much brighter than conventional bulb and reflectors. They also project the light farther back.

    So, I highly doubt they put LEDs on economy cars just to make them look pretty.

    Apr 16, 2006 10:50:48 PM

    svtrader1
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:I'd already covered this ground in an earlier post above:

    "And when I'm driving behind another car, if I'm relying on the car in front having LED braking lights which light up the odd thousandth of a second faster than conventional light bulbs, I'm doing something very wrong anyway."



    Fritz, my man. You're wearing the shoe on the wrong foot!

    I like having LED brake lights on the Carrera GT. It gives any possible moron following me too closely an extra third of a second, or so, to finally make up his/her mind to slow down, too!

    I don't want them eating my muffler, irrespective of the cause. They don't have PCCB. And, I have no desire to give them a too slow warning.

    What does it hinder to speed up their braking response?



    Precisely!

    Apr 16, 2006 11:00:07 PM

    rhino
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    rhino
    Loc: Island , Saint Lucia
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    Registered on: Jan 26, 2006
    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    LED are a thing of the past LCD's is where it's at now

    Apr 16, 2006 11:00:36 PM

    rhino
    Rennteam Pro
    rhino
    Loc: Island , Saint Lucia
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    Reply to: rhino

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    I was joking

    Apr 16, 2006 11:01:23 PM

    W8MM
    Rennteam Master
    W8MM
    Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States
    Posts: 3995, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 8, 2003
    Reply to: rhino

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    LED are a thing of the past LCD's is where it's at now



    You are a real "character"

    Apr 16, 2006 11:01:58 PM

    rhino
    Rennteam Pro
    rhino
    Loc: Island , Saint Lucia
    Posts: 2866, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 26, 2006
    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Apr 16, 2006 11:21:40 PM

    2FST2C
    Newbie
    2FST2C
    Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts: 10, Gallery
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    Reply to: Alan(NJ)

    Re: Just returned from the "Turbo Lounge"

    Some additional pictures from the Turbo Lounge:

    http://homepage.mac.com/nsgymd/PhotoAlbum15.html

    Apr 17, 2006 6:24:36 AM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:Most LED brake lights also set off my V1 laser detector. It's pretty unnerving, so I'm happy as long as only a few cars have them.



    Not true!

    The CHMSLs that cause your V1 to alert for laser are NEON, not LED. LEDs tail lamps have much too slow a rise time and have only visible wavelengths to emit. Neon lamps have a broad spectrum of wavelengths (including laser-used near-IR) and have very fast (nanosecond) optical rise times that mimic laser all too well.

    All rear warning lamps should be LED. No laser interference!



    Beg your pardon, I knew I mixed something up. In that case, ban the neons and keep the LEDs...
    Rhino, LCD lights would be nice. The left one would say: "YOU" and the right one: "LOST". I'd buy that.

    Apr 17, 2006 9:15:21 AM

    fritz
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    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:I'd already covered this ground in an earlier post above:

    "And when I'm driving behind another car, if I'm relying on the car in front having LED braking lights which light up the odd thousandth of a second faster than conventional light bulbs, I'm doing something very wrong anyway."



    Fritz, my man. You're wearing the shoe on the wrong foot!

    I like having LED brake lights on the Carrera GT. It gives any possible moron following me too closely an extra third of a second, or so, to finally make up his/her mind to slow down, too!




    Are we really talking about LEDs being a third of a second faster?

    I would be impressed if that were the case.

    Anybody have comparative figures?

    Apr 17, 2006 10:32:34 AM

    Alan(NJ)
    Pilot
    Alan(NJ)
    Loc: Paramus NJ USA
    Posts: 403, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 29, 2002
    Reply to: 2FST2C

    this is what I mean by pictures not being able to capture

    the three dimensional forceful look of the 997tt. In reality that air duct is about 8 inches deep from the flair to the body - hard to see in pictures as it looks flat (no criticism of the photographer btw)

    Apr 17, 2006 10:34:32 AM

    Alan(NJ)
    Pilot
    Alan(NJ)
    Loc: Paramus NJ USA
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    Registered on: Mar 29, 2002
    Reply to: Alan(NJ)

    here's the picture I'm referring to

    it looks more 2 dimensional

    Apr 17, 2006 10:36:03 AM

    Alan(NJ)
    Pilot
    Alan(NJ)
    Loc: Paramus NJ USA
    Posts: 403, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 29, 2002
    Reply to: Alan(NJ)

    Re: here's the picture I'm referring to

    let's try that again

    Apr 17, 2006 10:45:37 AM

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Porsche-Jeck
    Loc: Rheinland , Germany
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Are we really talking about LEDs being a third of a second faster?

    I would be impressed if that were the case.

    Anybody have comparative figures?



    Fritz, I read that the advantage translates into 3 m at a speed of 100 km/h for the car following the LED equipped car - assuming the driver pushes the brake pedal as soon as he sees the braking light of the car in front of him.(you might create one of your famous excel spreadsheets in order to compute the different brake light reaction time )

    3 m is quite impressive IMO if you consider that a Porsche needs some 36.0-36.5 m from 100 km/h to 0 and that everything more than 40m is considered to be a bad number.

    Apr 17, 2006 11:28:52 AM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Are we really talking about LEDs being a third of a second faster?

    I would be impressed if that were the case.

    Anybody have comparative figures?



    Fritz, I read that the advantage translates into 3 m at a speed of 100 km/h for the car following the LED equipped car - assuming the driver pushes the brake pedal as soon as he sees the braking light of the car in front of him.(you might create one of your famous excel spreadsheets in order to compute the different brake light reaction time )

    3 m is quite impressive IMO if you consider that a Porsche needs some 36.0-36.5 m from 100 km/h to 0 and that everything more than 40m is considered to be a bad number.



    Thanks for that input.

    Now I wasn't aware of the "light-up time" of LEDs being that much faster than light bulbs.
    3 m at 100 Km/h works out at 0,108 seconds, not just a few thousandths as I thought.

    3 m braking distance is always worth having. Some ppl would be prepared to spend real money to improve their brakes enough to achieve that.

    Apr 17, 2006 12:06:11 PM

    FSU-997TT
    Pilot
    FSU-997TT
    Loc: Florida , United States
    Posts: 412, Gallery
    Registered on: May 29, 2005
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Forgot one other piece of information that I "learned"

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:I'd already covered this ground in an earlier post above:

    "And when I'm driving behind another car, if I'm relying on the car in front having LED braking lights which light up the odd thousandth of a second faster than conventional light bulbs, I'm doing something very wrong anyway."



    Fritz, my man. You're wearing the shoe on the wrong foot!

    I like having LED brake lights on the Carrera GT. It gives any possible moron following me too closely an extra third of a second, or so, to finally make up his/her mind to slow down, too!




    Are we really talking about LEDs being a third of a second faster?

    I would be impressed if that were the case.

    Anybody have comparative figures?



    So what we're saying is that if a 997TT TIP with incandescent brake lights and a 997TT Manual with LED lights left an intersection at the same time and then both braked at the same time, due to the distance between the two cars, and the reaction time of the LEDs - we see both brake lights at the same time?
     
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