Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Tiptronic! - Page2

Apr 15, 2006 10:31:53 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Tiptronic!

"With the manual transmission, engine boost pressure needs to build after clutch engagement, which can require several fractions of a second. Additionally, clutch- and wheel-slip when launching from a standstill can also make it difficult to translate engine torque into the quickest acceleration times. "

"911 Turbo equipped with Tiptronic S is essentially "pre-tensioned" at the starting line, and during acceleration runs, power-interruptions are reduced in comparison to the 6-speed manual transmission. Aiding acceleration, when paired with Tiptronic S, the all-wheel-drive system with PTM can deliver a nearly uninterrupted flow of torque to all four wheels.
"

thanks kreso.... that says it all....like rc,my aim is to go the fastest possible all the time,the end justify the means....
christian, can you confirm if there is a launch control procedure on the tip ,or do we just floor the gas pedal?

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Apr 15, 2006 11:30:30 AM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Super Darius said:
someone here need to see that video..

It has been taken with a phone camera, quality was pretty good (Nokia N90) but the video stays where it is...in the phone. For good reasons...phones have to be turned off...

things are two:

1)you have my phone number

2)you must send me the video via MMS

thanks

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Apr 15, 2006 11:53:05 AM

W211: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 410, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: Tiptronic!

I believe our friends in NYC found out that the tiptronic will still start off in 2nd. This means sports chrono is a must as I believe sports mode will force the car to start off in 1st gear?

Naturally, I'm curious if the car will start off in sports mode or it'll always default back to normal.

The so called launch control, as I read it, is not really a launch control except it will more conveniently bring up the boost as one power-brakes before the launching the car.

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Apr 15, 2006 12:22:43 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: W211

Re: Tiptronic!

That's it! You need to build up revs to 6000rpm while holding the brake pedal with your left foot! Then release brake pedal as fast as possible and then you fly 0-100km/h in 3.7s!! If you just floored it you will be slower then skilled driver in manual 997 Turbo...
BTW-"For those wishing to challenge themselves on a racetrack, and who prefer the control and selection of the 6-speed, the manual gearbox will remain the transmission of choice"

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Apr 15, 2006 12:25:13 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
intouch1 said:
when an automatic is even faster than a manual, what more can we ask for.

The problem is that Tip is faster in 1 or 2 straight line specs at lower speeds but slower in all other aspects (high-speed acceleration, track times etc.)...

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Apr 15, 2006 12:27:53 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
That's it! You need to build up revs to 6000rpm while holding the brake pedal with your left foot! Then release brake pedal as fast as possible and then you fly 0-100km/h in 3.7s!!

No problem. Isn't this our usual starting procedure anyhow

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Apr 15, 2006 12:34:21 PM

Rafael from Spain: Junior; Loc: Madrid, Spain; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: May 16, 2005; Reply to: W211

Re: Tiptronic!

I really hope nobody regrets getting the Tip, specially the more focused drivers on the board. Tip maybe be faster under the stopwatch but it will be slower in your mind, because operating the controls in perfect harmony (steering, pedals and gearchange) makes you feel a better, faster driver, something the Tip will never do even if you are going 10ths of second faster that is completely unoticable unless racing against another car in a race-track for many laps (for this you would need another type of car)

I only say, try before you buy, because selecting something that will take out 30% of the car fun factor only because o woman could be faster at stoplight is not a very smart reason.

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Apr 15, 2006 12:58:41 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Rafael from Spain

Re: Tiptronic!

the tip car will be faster than the manual..even around the track.

on a track you torque brake, obviously, so the car will build pressure and exit the bends faster than the manual will do.

on a long track as nring, manual will have no chance to keep up.
on a short track the lsd might help the manual to keep up.

tiptronic is certainly the way to go.

the term 'slushbox' is no more.

its now the 'qtmbox'......quicker than manual box !

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Apr 15, 2006 1:02:06 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Around Nordschleife manual with LSD is faster then TIP and that is the FACT.

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Apr 15, 2006 1:14:24 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Tiptronic!

I doubt it...and that is FACT...

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Apr 15, 2006 1:16:30 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Around Nordschleife manual with LSD is faster then TIP and that is the FACT.

That is correct. Also, imagine the disbelief of the Tip driver on the Autobahn, when you slowly, but surely, leave him behind.

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Apr 15, 2006 1:19:40 PM

Jay: Pilot; Loc: Earth , Eritrea; Posts: 346, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 6, 2002; Reply to: Rafael from Spain

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
Rafael from Spain said:
Tip maybe be faster under the stopwatch but it will be slower in your mind,

Every piece of old and out-dated technology is to slow for 'P'eople who demand the best!

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Apr 15, 2006 1:27:30 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Jay

Re: Tiptronic!

qtmbox cars will smoke the manual with lsd on the autobahn.....ah,....and that is FACT.

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Apr 15, 2006 2:05:43 PM

Mussl Kar: Junior; Loc: Boston area; Posts: 91, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 1, 2006; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Read here-from 997 Turbo press material:
"TIPTRONIC S VS. 6-SPEED MANUAL BACKGROUND

Why does the 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo equipped with the optional 5-speed Tiptronic S automatic transmission accelerate 0.3 seconds faster to 60 mph than the 6-speed manual transmission version?

The optimized interaction between the new all-wheel-drive system, Porsche Traction Management (PTM), Tiptronic S five-speed automatic transmission, and Tiptronic-specific calibration of the engine management controls and associated variable turbine geometry (VTG) system, allows the new 911 Turbo with Tiptronic S to accelerate slightly quicker than models equipped with the manual 6-speed transmission.

Improvements to the Tiptronic S transmission in the latest 911 Turbo contribute to the performance gains. These include:

Earlier ramp-up of boost pressure when 'brake-torquing' the transmission
Increased torque build-up allowed when brake-torquing
Reduced shifting- and reaction times

If launched appropriately, a 911 Turbo equipped with Tiptronic S is essentially "pre-tensioned" at the starting line, and during acceleration runs, power-interruptions are reduced in comparison to the 6-speed manual transmission. Aiding acceleration, when paired with Tiptronic S, the all-wheel-drive system with PTM can deliver a nearly uninterrupted flow of torque to all four wheels.

With the manual transmission, engine boost pressure needs to build after clutch engagement, which can require several fractions of a second. Additionally, clutch- and wheel-slip when launching from a standstill can also make it difficult to translate engine torque into the quickest acceleration times.

In terms of providing performance to our customers, the Tiptronic S transmission has made the prodigious abilities of the 911 Turbo more accessible to a wider range of customers. In its evolution, the Tiptronic S now provides certain areas of strength in relation to the 6-speed manual, particularly in standing start acceleration numbers, an area of quantified performance that grows more challenging as peak horsepower levels continue to escalate. For those wishing to challenge themselves on a racetrack, and who prefer the control and selection of the 6-speed, the manual gearbox will remain the transmission of choice."

That is it exactly. Is is a complete system where everything works together and the engine and tran talk to each other. The clutch packs for the next gear are being readied(filled with oil)by the juice box because the ECU has told the TCU to do so. Power transmission is almost continous through the gears with little or no shock loading. Not only that but you can hammer the [censored] outta the car with little worry about a tranny failure. Having available torque at low RPMs allows you to wind up to the power band before launching. Juice drive also makes a lot of sense if you spend a lot of time in traffic. Clutch/stick gets old real quick on start/stop driving.
I see some comparing the Tip to the SL55. Two very different cars for two uses/driving styles. The SL55 will beat the crap out of ANY P car in the Lux catagory, and the comfort catagory, and it looks just as good with the roof down as it does with the roof up, I can't say that about ANY ragtop. Does your wifey love to go for an afternoon of crusing with you? Mine does, even lets me do light launches too. Hates the twisties though

I'm getting the 6 speed TT to satisfy my need to row through the gears, something I miss with the SL55.
BTW, my SL55 is going to get Kleeman stage 2 next month, 593HP, 616TQ

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Apr 15, 2006 2:28:47 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Mussl Kar

Re: Tiptronic!

forget the kleemann. get an sl65 instead.

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Apr 15, 2006 3:36:08 PM

Mussl Kar: Junior; Loc: Boston area; Posts: 91, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 1, 2006; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
intouch1 said:
forget the kleemann. get an sl65 instead.

Far too heavy in the nose. The exhaust note of the SL55 is orgasmic, not so with the SL65 turbos filtering it out.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:00:58 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
intouch1 said:
qtmbox cars will smoke the manual with lsd on the autobahn.....ah,....and that is FACT.

Really? Then how do you explain faster 160-300 km/h times for the manual? Wishfukl thinking is all you're displaying.

Regarding outdated technology, let's just dump manual steering, braking and throttle for fully automatic handling. After all, it's humans who are the weak link here.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:06:23 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
intouch1 said:
the tip car will be faster than the manual..even around the track.

I think there are even official Porsche announcements that contradict your hope... Tip is slower on the track.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:07:46 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
intouch1 said:
I doubt it...and that is FACT...

You better may consider re-reading the official Porsche announcements...

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Apr 15, 2006 4:09:39 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
intouch1 said:
qtmbox cars will smoke the manual with lsd on the autobahn.....ah,....and that is FACT.

You better get informed before you continue posting such nonsense. Use the search function to get the basic information. You can find it all on rennteam.com.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:12:36 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Tiptronic!

we shall wait and we shall see.......

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Apr 15, 2006 4:33:26 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
intouch1 said:
we shall wait and we shall see.......

...the 997TT manual totally destroy the Tip on the Autobahn

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Apr 15, 2006 4:47:37 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Tiptronic!

hey everybody,

just checked porsche turbo booklet:

qtmbox 0-200 12.2 secs

manual 0-200 12.8 secs

sports chrono turbo will benefit the qtmbox more than the manual so elasticity of qtmbox is better too.

which one is faster

........repeat my words:

t.i.p.t.r.o.n.i.c.

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Apr 15, 2006 4:52:32 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

There is still another 100kph you are not addressing, and 200kph-300kph not from 0 could be in favor of the manual

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Apr 15, 2006 4:53:27 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Just one hint for you 0-300km/h!! Here is the catch-manual is faster till 300km/h then TIP. And also till 310km/h(max speed), so...
And that allready famous times 7.49min-normal Michelin's and 7.42min-Michelin Cup's were achived by 997 Turbo manual with optional LSD. TIP is slower 4s to 5s on Ring...
But, both versions are allmost the same on Hockenheim...
So, something for each of us, I guess...

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Apr 15, 2006 4:56:27 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Around Nordschleife manual with LSD is faster then TIP and that is the FACT.

That is correct. Also, imagine the disbelief of the Tip driver on the Autobahn, when you slowly, but surely, leave him behind.

Do we have P claims re: 997TT times around N-ring for man w/SC&LSD and PCCB/street tires vs Tip w/SC and PCCB/street tires?

ROTFL re: all the fantasy encounters many expect to have on autobahn/on CA fwys btwn 997TT Tip vs manual (or any other allegedly emasculating/Viagra-equiv car)

....

Even in mkts like SF/Munich, doubt one sees many of these competing machines in daily driving; I'd bet 90%+ of $150K+ cars actually driven are used in urban regions w/traffic and speed lims hampering much 120MPH+ cruising (even in urban AB settings I suspect

).....and the really big boys prob fly NetJets/equivs when they need to traverse 150mi+ anyway.....

When I occasionally see $150K+ commuter cars (even on wkend), the driver typically couldn't care less/has never challenged me to race (he's prob just late to a mtg/business dinner, as I often am

).....to me (and I suspect 99%+ of actual buyers and heavy users of $150K+ cars), only straight-line metric of value is real-world 60-120MPH accel (60-150MPH in Munich), for carving through clumps of traffic on fwy/AB.....

Will get 997TT Tip in Jul (to replace my curr 996TTS Tip) and also will have 599 w/F1 tranny, for when I want to be able to play w/paddle shifters during a dry pavement run......even in twisties (typ do two early AM mtn twisties drives every wkend it's not heavily raining), I enjoy steering/chassis/throttle resp/braking precision&balance best w/both hands on wheel, letting various computers interact to determine best gear.....but to each his own.....

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Apr 15, 2006 5:03:35 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: WBH

Re: Tiptronic!

ok how bout this:

if a qtmbox does 0-200 in 12.2 secs i.e. 0.6 secs faster than manual, how much will the manual be able to make up for in the 0-300 run.

i doubt it will be able to make those 0.6 secs it is already behind at 0-200 and then make some more to be in front at 300 or 310.

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Apr 15, 2006 5:11:37 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Tiptronic!

Quote:
intouch1 said:
ok how bout this:

if a qtmbox does 0-200 in 12.2 secs i.e. 0.6 secs faster than manual, how much will the manual be able to make up for in the 0-300 run.

i doubt it will be able to make those 0.6 secs it is already behind at 0-200 and then make some more to be in front at 300 or 310.

The Tip gains a few tenths from the launch. Then it gains two tenths from 100 to 160 km/h. From 160 to 200 km/h the times are equal. From 200 km/h onwards, the manual pulls on the Tip and the car doesn't stand a chance against the 6-speed.
It's that simple. However, knowing traffic in Cairo, I certainly feel a Tip would be much more beneficial for you

.

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Apr 15, 2006 5:20:07 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Tiptronic!

we are talking hypothetically anyway.....

read my post again please. the tip gains 0.6 secs from 0-200. the manual would have to make up at least 0.7 seconds from 200-300 to be faster. i doubt it can do that. you would need a car with much more horsepower to make up for that at these speeds due to aerodynamic drag.

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Apr 15, 2006 5:28:16 PM

MetalSolid: Newbie; Loc: LACAUSA; Posts: 10, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 26, 2003; Reply to: WBH

Re: Tiptronic!

Rolling starts 5mph to 60mph the manual will be faster - in this scenario the Tip may even start off in 2nd.

Porsche's published times are based on average runs not the fastest; Tip is more consistent allowing for higher published figures.

The question is why would Porsche go out of their way to make the Tip appear faster? Simple, to make as many customers as thay can comfortable with the idea of a automatic "Porsche 911 Turbo" - an idea that previously held a stigma. Porsche are making a sizeable investment into PDK technology (that for legal reasons isn't available at Turbo launch) and they want to sell all they can. Porsche also realize that everyone in a Tiptronic will move up to the new PDK technology anyway - doubling their money.

The idea that a Tip will post an official faster time at the Nurburgring is preposterous - I guess some of you have never seen Walter Rohrl drive.

If you want the fastest car in a straight and you don't care what you have to do to achieve that, why not get a AMG SL65?

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