Crown

Whoopsy:

nberry:

Targa Tim:

Congrats Nick on new flashy RS!

Seems like you are switching GT cars quite frequently lately.  You are playing Porsche's game perfectly.  Trade back a car within short time and guaranteed the next new toy.

I don't play this game well as I like to buy and keep.

Tim, you don’t know what you’re missing.

i usually keep a car for about one year. I enjoy the entire process of new car buying especially taking delivery. Thereafter, I immerse myself in the newness of the car and it’s upgraed performance features. 

 

That's the USA Ferrari way! 

FWIW, in all the years  I’ve been in and out of cars, I cannot thing of an instance when I didn’t enjoy the newest model  more.

Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.

..nberry:

Whoopsy:

nberry:

Targa Tim:

Congrats Nick on new flashy RS!

Seems like you are switching GT cars quite frequently lately.  You are playing Porsche's game perfectly.  Trade back a car within short time and guaranteed the next new toy.

I don't play this game well as I like to buy and keep.

Tim, you don’t know what you’re missing.

i usually keep a car for about one year. I enjoy the entire process of new car buying especially taking delivery. Thereafter, I immerse myself in the newness of the car and it’s upgraed performance features. 

 

That's the USA Ferrari way! 

FWIW, in all the years  I’ve been in and out of cars, I cannot thing of an instance when I didn’t enjoy the newest model  more.

Bit like women, Nick......

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

Please, could a 991.2 GT3 owner without lift-system measure up the clearance of the front lip of his car...

I checked today my friends GT3 with not engaged lift-system...11.5cm with 70 litres of fuel...and 11cm with 98kg driver.

I‘m interested in a non-lift-car, but I need at least 11cm clearance for my garage...

Thanks for the help

Blueflame

Make sure to check if a Touring has the same geometry setup and height as a winged GT3. You want a Touring, right? I've read that the suspension might be different, softer, but have no 100% proof if true. However, if the suspension is different, maybe the Touring sits slightly higher too? 

P.S. I have a lift, so can't help with your request.

--

2018 White 911 GT3

As a side note, the GT3 is sitting slightly higher on the front axle. This bothers me, and I will lower the car at some point, and have a new geometry setting done consequently. Since I have the lift, I will still be able to go everywhere a non-lift-equipped GT3 would be able to go on standard height.

2018 White 911 GT3

I don't think there is any difference between a GT3 with lift and one without lift .

Why make your life complicated for no advantage  ? Just get one with the lift 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

blueflame:

Please, could a 991.2 GT3 owner without lift-system measure up the clearance of the front lip of his car...

I checked today my friends GT3 with not engaged lift-system...11.5cm with 70 litres of fuel...and 11cm with 98kg driver.

I‘m interested in a non-lift-car, but I need at least 11cm clearance for my garage...

Thanks for the help

Blueflame

Is it really relevant to check that, the suspension is completely adjustable anyway, you can put it higher/lower as you wish? 

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Gnil:

I don't think there is any difference between a GT3 with lift and one without lift .

Why make your life complicated for no advantage  ? Just get one with the lift 

As there is to 99% no chance to order a new 991.1 GT3 (just some more RS)  in Germany for 2019, I have to look at the used car market.

There are good offers under listprice right now, but some of them are without lift...so I have to check first, if I can get in my garage with a non-lift-car with works-suspension-height.

And yes, I could wait for the 992 GT3 Touring, but I don´t think that it will be delivered in time to my 50th in 1/2020... and I don´t like the new dashboard.

Thanks for your input.

Blueflame

I'd measure for you as I don't have lift but I'm not on stock ride height...

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Went for a short drive this morning and captured the Autumn leaf colours.

--

2018 White 911 GT3

Beautiful shot...  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Very nice indeed. Have as much fun as you can before the winter...

Though my Touring has FAL I can measure it as it has the Manthey Settings but without the modified top mounts and sensible ride height for mainly country road driving.

blueflame:

 

As there is to 99% no chance to order a new 991.1 GT3 (just some more RS)  in Germany for 2019, I have to look at the used car market.

There are good offers under listprice right now, but some of them are without lift...so I have to check first, if I can get in my garage with a non-lift-car with works-suspension-height.

And yes, I could wait for the 992 GT3 Touring, but I don´t think that it will be delivered in time to my 50th in 1/2020... and I don´t like the new dashboard.

Thanks for your input.

Blueflame

Probably the non lift are a little bit cheaper , or  at least you can negotiate them  more .

Your 49th birthday does indeed deserve a GT3 991 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

RC:

Beautiful shot...  

+ 1 and your new avatar looks so much better 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Blueflame,

Sky will measure his car for you today.  After his hike w the S Crewe

Gauss:

As a side note, the GT3 is sitting slightly higher on the front axle. This bothers me, and I will lower the car at some point, and have a new geometry setting done consequently. Since I have the lift, I will still be able to go everywhere a non-lift-equipped GT3 would be able to go on standard height.  

Be very careful with this.  There are several cases of GT3 and GT4 where the front suspension struts broke right through the unibody strut tower, because the ride height was lowered and then the car encountered a bump (curb at track or similar).  When you lower the ride height, you make this much more likely.  This is a big repair and the car may never be quite the same.

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

You would think that area of the chassis would be over-reinforced just in case 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Wow! Thanks Grant, I had no idea.

2018 White 911 GT3

@RC, Josef & Eric: Thanks guys, appreciate the kind words 

2018 White 911 GT3

Gauss:

Wow! Thanks Grant, I had no idea.

If you didn't chose from factory the clubsport package, I am afraid the retrofit with factory cage will not be possible on the .2

One of our friend here is facing the exact same issue...PAG will not ship a cage and retrofit manual as he doesn't have the extra plates welded on the chassis to accomodate the package... He is looking aftermarket...

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

watt:

Blueflame,

Sky will measure his car for you today.  After his hike w the S Crewe

11 cm.  PCCB car at rest full tank

watt:

watt:

Blueflame,

Sky will measure his car for you today.  After his hike w the S Crewe

11 cm.  PCCB car at rest full tank

Blueflame

Grant:

Gauss:

As a side note, the GT3 is sitting slightly higher on the front axle. This bothers me, and I will lower the car at some point, and have a new geometry setting done consequently. Since I have the lift, I will still be able to go everywhere a non-lift-equipped GT3 would be able to go on standard height.  

Be very careful with this.  There are several cases of GT3 and GT4 where the front suspension struts broke right through the unibody strut tower, because the ride height was lowered and then the car encountered a bump (curb at track or similar).  When you lower the ride height, you make this much more likely.  This is a big repair and the car may never be quite the same.

That’s nuts... What is Porsches explanation for this? Driver error, material defect, “wrong” suspension setup?

Ferdie:

Grant:

Gauss:

As a side note, the GT3 is sitting slightly higher on the front axle. This bothers me, and I will lower the car at some point, and have a new geometry setting done consequently. Since I have the lift, I will still be able to go everywhere a non-lift-equipped GT3 would be able to go on standard height.  

Be very careful with this.  There are several cases of GT3 and GT4 where the front suspension struts broke right through the unibody strut tower, because the ride height was lowered and then the car encountered a bump (curb at track or similar).  When you lower the ride height, you make this much more likely.  This is a big repair and the car may never be quite the same.

That’s nuts... What is Porsches explanation for this? Driver error, material defect, “wrong” suspension setup?

 

Every mod outside the approved specs/certified equipment is at your own risk and won't be covered by the warranty.

Remember the Boxster "fiasco"? When lowering the car aftermarket caused cracks in the body? Not Porsche's fault but from a GT3/GT4 I expect a little bit more "durability", even if aftermarket parts are installed.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Playing with suspension tolerance without any extra part is 100% covered by a defect from manufacturer. 

The car is designed with adjustable height, camber and toe. At the moment you stay stock, any setup is as per design. 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

Playing with suspension tolerance without any extra part is 100% covered by a defect from manufacturer. 

True.

The car is designed with adjustable height, camber and toe. At the moment you stay stock, any setup is as per design. 

Also true but seeing that damage, I'm not sure nothing else was involved. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

the-missile:

Playing with suspension tolerance without any extra part is 100% covered by a defect from manufacturer. 

True.

The car is designed with adjustable height, camber and toe. At the moment you stay stock, any setup is as per design. 

Also true but seeing that damage, I'm not sure nothing else was involved. 

I don't think the failures pictured included aftermarket parts.   Although counter-intuitive, aftermarket coilovers would actually be less likely to cause this failure since they usually include stiffer than stock springs.

The failure occurs because the stock suspension is relatively soft and runs out of travel in the springs and rubber bump stops - then the next thing to give is the Aluminum shock tower (yes most of the unibody is steel, but the strut towers are aluminum). 

Lowering the car gives even less travel before this problem.  Using stiffer springs makes it less likely to use all the available suspension travel. 

Best idea is to leave the parts and ride height as delivered during warranty period (and try to stay away from aggressive curbing at the track, particularly with the wheels on the outside of the corner).  But Porsche may still try to disclaim warranty coverage if the car encounters an unusually strong strike from a track curb or something it considers more than typical for normal street driving.

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

RC:

the-missile:

Playing with suspension tolerance without any extra part is 100% covered by a defect from manufacturer. 

True.

The car is designed with adjustable height, camber and toe. At the moment you stay stock, any setup is as per design. 

Also true but seeing that damage, I'm not sure nothing else was involved. 

I don't think the failures pictured included aftermarket parts.   Although counter-intuitive, aftermarket coilovers would actually be less likely to cause this failure since they usually include stiffer than stock springs.

The failure occurs because the stock suspension is relatively soft and runs out of travel in the springs and rubber bump stops - then the next thing to give is the Aluminum shock tower (yes most of the unibody is steel, but the strut towers are aluminum). 

Lowering the car gives even less travel before this problem.  Using stiffer springs makes it less likely to use all the available suspension travel. 

Best idea is to leave the parts and ride height as delivered during warranty period (and try to stay away from aggressive curbing at the track, particularly with the wheels on the outside of the corner).  But Porsche may still try to disclaim warranty coverage if the car encounters an unusually strong strike from a track curb or something it considers more than typical for normal street driving.

--

 

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

 

Concur with your analysis of the root cause.  Interestingly, Porsche has optimized a street car with the presence of track car, yet it remains a street car.  

RC:

Remember the Boxster "fiasco"? When lowering the car aftermarket caused cracks in the body? Not Porsche's fault but from a GT3/GT4 I expect a little bit more "durability", even if aftermarket parts are installed.

[...]

the-missile:

The car is designed with adjustable height, camber and toe. At the moment you stay stock, any setup is as per design. 

Also true but seeing that damage, I'm not sure nothing else was involved. 

 

Whatever it is, I am surprised to see it happen. The difference to the Boxster is that the latter has not been intended as a track car, it was developed at a time where Porsche was certainly short on money and development resources and the  quality as well as setup of the aftermarket suspension will have been a contributing factor to that.

Still, some cracks due to fatigue is still a different occurrence than a suspension dome being ripped out entirely... looks to me as if the part is structurally not laid out for such use. What is the layout on the race cars (Cup etc.), if I understand it correctly they feature additional reinforcements?