Crown

fritz:

RC:

The 918 is a different story. A GT3 RS is basically a 911 with a different engine and chassis, not really an issue for Porsche to easily add (without any developing cost) two rear seats.

Back to topic, 911 R: Today I received a very confusing information. It seems that the Porsche Board hasn't approved the 911 R for production yet and will decide on it's fate after the Geneva(?) presentation. This is the weirdest information I heard about the 911 R lately. 

In view of some of the information we have read so far on the 911R, I'm not completely surprised.
In particular, the suggestion that a car with GT3-like performance should be released without a rear wing or the other measures seen in the latest 911RS (air outlets on tops of front and rear wheel wells) which are required to reduce aerodynamic lift would contradict all the claims made in the past relating to such measures.

 

Thank you for saying this. The wing is not just an unsightly (to some) appendage, it is there for a very valid reason.

spudgun:

@Fritz "I see no problems with breaking taboos, but opening a barn door to the lawyers of the first litigious owner who wrecks a 911R would not be a good move."

 

Why would they fear lawsuits? 

Other marques are able to match downforce without huge static wings for years now, Porsche engineers can surely design a proper wingless active aero car, no?

Not quite comparable. Other marques have different shapes, mainly due to engine layout. A short downward sloping rear requires down-force to keep grip. Thus the introduction of duck tail as far back as the 2.7 RS

m4ever:

RC:

m4ever:

Last week the Porsche Board decided the R production numbers, any insider info on this?

How could they decide the production numbers if the car is rumored not to have the green light for production yet? 

The last number I heard was something between 600 and 700 cars but again, this was before the new rumored with the Porsche Board approval appeared.

     We have contrasting information then . The information  that I have  is that the car is real and deliveries will start in Sept-Oct 16' .  The greatest surprise of all will be the power output and weight  .  The source of this info is a friend who is a major Porsche collector (for what is worth).

My information comes directly from within Porsche  but again, this is a rumor, not something confirmed by more sources. I was thinking about getting the 911 R but have been told that it doesn't have the green light yet, so not possible to get an allocation for something which isn't real (yet). Actually I'm glad I got this answer because after some thinking and discussing it with my wife, I think it would have been a bad idea. From an investment point of view, certainly a great idea but my wife reminded me that I always wanted such a car and I would never sell it and she is right, so no way I am getting one.   

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

its actually funny how 'hesitant' porsche is with bringing out the car every die hard porsche enthusiast actually would like to own.

if it was my decision, i would produce this car in unlimited numbers and sell it to owners who have maybe bought 3 or 5 porsche before directly from authorized dealers. and if they flip them, well, let them.

the R is to me the real 911 in its purest form and a real hommage to everything 911.

--
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

intouch1:

its actually funny how 'hesitant' porsche is with bringing out the car every die hard porsche enthusiast actually would like to own.

if it was my decision, i would produce this car in unlimited numbers and sell it to owners who have maybe bought 3 or 5 porsche before directly from authorized dealers. and if they flip them, well, let them.

the R is to me the real 911 in its purest form and a real hommage to everything 911.

 

I was actually thinking the same thing but:

1. Such a car in "unlimited" numbers would have to cost less than the rumored 190-230k EUR. Otherwise, the customers interested in such a car would be very limited, especially if the production isn't limited.

2. Soon, new EU regulations for sound emission levels will be in effect. I don't have a clue if and how Porsche will cope with them. Flap operated exhausts will be forbidden (my understanding), sport exhaust systems cannot be louder than the stock exhaust systems. Of course they (hopefully) find a bit of a workaround but I think the margin for that is quite narrow. Even aftermarket exhausts are not permitted to be louder. Interesting times ahead. 

3. Emissions (CO2), a 911 R in large numbers would actually sabotage the goal to lower CO2 output (991.2 Carrera models with turbo charged engines).

4. VW Group may have stopped or will stop a couple of projects for cost reasons. In the US, not only VW is in trouble but Porsche USA as well according to the EPA documents filed. So not only VW will be fined but Porsche as well (I think). My guess is that some projects will get a big question mark and VW (and certainly Porsche as well) will concentrate on more "green" projects, to try to improve their image. Just a wild guess though.

As you can see, things aren't always that easy and Porsche cannot do what they want, it would be way too easy. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

m4ever:

RC:

m4ever:

Last week the Porsche Board decided the R production numbers, any insider info on this?

How could they decide the production numbers if the car is rumored not to have the green light for production yet? 

The last number I heard was something between 600 and 700 cars but again, this was before the new rumored with the Porsche Board approval appeared.

     We have contrasting information then . The information  that I have  is that the car is real and deliveries will start in Sept-Oct 16' .  The greatest surprise of all will be the power output and weight  .  The source of this info is a friend who is a major Porsche collector (for what is worth).

My information comes directly from within Porsche  but again, this is a rumor, not something confirmed by more sources. I was thinking about getting the 911 R but have been told that it doesn't have the green light yet, so not possible to get an allocation for something which isn't real (yet). Actually I'm glad I got this answer because after some thinking and discussing it with my wife, I think it would have been a bad idea. From an investment point of view, certainly a great idea but my wife reminded me that I always wanted such a car and I would never sell it and she is right, so no way I am getting one.   

       RC - About one month to go and then we will finally find out !  At least we keep ourselves entertained with speculations and rumors.  Seriously what I think is that they are struggling to set the production numbers and allocation criteria's  given the unprecedented interest in the R.

The last rumor about allocation was around 600 cars and only 90 cars for Germany (majority will go to US market). This was weeks ago.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Well, if they play their cards right, they finally have the opportunity to create that ultimate collector's car again. The sportsclassic was a parts bin exercise (except for the exhausts and the roof maybe) and imo never got that cult status that befitted it's price. Hopefully the 991R will be a car that deserves to be that uber-desirable car in 10-20 years time.

Guys,

I'm still thinking they will switch the entire range to turbo, next gen 2 GT3/RS as well.

From an investment point of view, GT3RS current, GT3, and oviously the R will make sense.

But this is only speculation right now. We don't know what will be the outcome till we have moe reliable info.

I agree with RC regarding the R. I agree as well with a price tag too high if not limited. People will not like to pay for it.

But on the other hand, people have paid it for the RS, while the number produced is significantly going up .....

So let see what future is telling.... Interesting time .....

The new EU regulation and CO2 will amke the new car different .... this is for sure .....

997 Carrera S Triple Black Sold now ... Good car 997 GT3 triple black wow what a car !!!

Only investment that interest me: is the car fun to drive?

Makes me sad when people buy these cars for profit gains, they are meant to be driven. 

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1160120103139/porsche-911-r-reportedly-bound-for-geneva

Mantas:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1160120103139/porsche-911-r-reportedly-bound-for-geneva

 

Old "news" (and photos). 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Is this official confirmation of a 6 speed manual?

http://www.caradvice.com.au/411087/porsche-911-r-all-but-confirmed/

DJM

DJM48:

Is this official confirmation of a 6 speed manual?

http://www.caradvice.com.au/411087/porsche-911-r-all-but-confirmed/

DJM

 

The manual transmission seems to be pretty much 99% sure, all we have to know is if this car is actually coming or not. Yes, it will be in Geneva, no, we don't know (yet) if Porsche gave the green light for production. Pretty weird.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Maybe if it receives a bad response in Geneva, they would cancel it?  I think it's coming and maybe they will use response in Geneva to better gauge production numbers and price?

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

Maybe if it receives a bad response in Geneva, they would cancel it?  I think it's coming and maybe they will use response in Geneva to better gauge production numbers and price?

Or they just wanted to surprise people because they only have the new Boxster/Cayman for Geneva? 

I don't have a clue. Actually, I thought that this car already has the green light (which doesn't mean that the recent rumor I posted is correct...it may be false information) because customers are already putting down their names at dealerships but apparently I was wrong. 

Geneva will tell us more, especially about that dubious price tag which seems to vary from 190k to 230k EUR. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Geneva will tell us more, especially about that dubious price tag which seems to vary from 190k to 230k EUR. 

Someone on Rennlist posted the "confirmed" price of 224k Euros including VAT.  Maybe this is a controlled leak to test market reaction?  At that price it would have to offer some remarkable specs (beyond just limited production numbers) for me to bite...

My dealer said he expects the price to be ~$150k USD

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

RC:

Geneva will tell us more, especially about that dubious price tag which seems to vary from 190k to 230k EUR. 

Someone on Rennlist posted the "confirmed" price of 224k Euros including VAT.  Maybe this is a controlled leak to test market reaction?  At that price it would have to offer some remarkable specs (beyond just limited production numbers) for me to bite...

ALDO posted something around 190k and his information is usually not really far from the truth. I suppose 190k plus 19% VAT?

Yes, maybe someone "leaked" this number (224k incl. VAT) to test market reaction. It wouldn't be the first time.

My dealer said he expects the price to be ~$150k USD

Your dealer is a funny guy.  He should start a career as a comedian.   

I have another suspicion why Porsche may not be convinced with the success of the 911 R: If the car has manual and no AWS, it would be very likely slower on the track or at least not faster than even the 991.2 Carrera (base model).  Well, not really but you get my point. Why would someone pay 224k for a car which isn't faster or at least as fast as the 991.1 GT3 for example? Then, the 991.2 GT3 comes and the 911 R is really slow in comparison? What if the 991.2 GT3 gets manual too? Many many questions and while I love the idea of a 911 R and I would love to own such a car, the more I think about it, the more I see the possible issues Porsche is very likely evaluating right now.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

What if the 991.2 GT3 gets manual too? Many many questions and while I love the idea of a 911 R and I would love to own such a car, the more I think about it, the more I see the possible issues Porsche is very likely evaluating right now.

This is the car is I am most excited about (and I could more likely afford without selling the house  ).  Do you think there is any chance that the 911R and/or next GT3 has 5-lug wheels (at least as an option)?  I think many customers have asked for this, but Porsche doesn't like to reverse on these kinds of "improvements"...

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 RC:

Why would someone pay 224k for a car which isn't faster or at least as fast as the 991.1 GT3 for example? Then, the 991.2 GT3 comes and the 911 R is really slow in comparison?

 

What if the marketing boys sell this car as a pure driver car, where feel is more important than laptimes? I think they have a shot here: not every trackday driver races against a stopwatch.

spudgun:

I think they have a shot here: not every trackday driver races against a stopwatch.

And some who do only try to improve their own time with a specific car - no harm in having a car that is a little slower but with a sharp chassis that is nice to adjust with the throttle with the rumored narrower tires.

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

spudgun:

 RC:

Why would someone pay 224k for a car which isn't faster or at least as fast as the 991.1 GT3 for example? Then, the 991.2 GT3 comes and the 911 R is really slow in comparison?

 

What if the marketing boys sell this car as a pure driver car, where feel is more important than laptimes? I think they have a shot here: not every trackday driver races against a stopwatch.

I'm all in for a car that is lighter, has more "feel", and manual transmission, but not at a price that is significantly more than the faster GT versions.  It is not like the production cost of this 991R will be much higher than a GT3 or RS.  I am one of the biggest Porsche fan, but don't treat us like a fool.

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
 

Targa Tim:

I'm all in for a car that is lighter, has more "feel", and manual transmission, but not at a price that is significantly more than the faster GT versions.  It is not like the production cost of this 991R will be much higher than a GT3 or RS.  I am one of the biggest Porsche fan, but don't treat us like a fool.

Yes, it is a pretty cynical exercise.  Porsche knows that if they build a car like this in limited numbers, it is highly likely to appreciate in value beyond a GT3 (and maybe RS too).  But instead of letting the buying make the profit, Porsche is collecting the profit on the front end, at the time of sale.

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Targa Tim:

spudgun:

 RC:

Why would someone pay 224k for a car which isn't faster or at least as fast as the 991.1 GT3 for example? Then, the 991.2 GT3 comes and the 911 R is really slow in comparison?

 

What if the marketing boys sell this car as a pure driver car, where feel is more important than laptimes? I think they have a shot here: not every trackday driver races against a stopwatch.

I'm all in for a car that is lighter, has more "feel", and manual transmission, but not at a price that is significantly more than the faster GT versions.  It is not like the production cost of this 991R will be much higher than a GT3 or RS.  I am one of the biggest Porsche fan, but don't treat us like a fool.

No, they only treat the 918 buyers as fools. 

Whoopsy:

No, they only treat the 918 buyers as fools. 

But they don't need to, we all know 918 owners are fools...

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
 

I can just imagine this whole 911R project started as a bet between 2 board member at PAG in a strip bar over few drinks.. "I bet you a million Euros that we can produce a car that's very similar to an existing production car but with less performance and less options and limit it to say 600 unites and we will see some customers shedding significantly more money for it and dying to own one".

 PAG could've saved themselves & their customers the hassle and introduced the manual gear as an option along with PDK from the beginning on the GT3/RS models. This R thing would've really been a pointless exercise.

ha:

I can just imagine this whole 911R project started as a bet between 2 board member at PAG in a strip bar over few drinks.. "I bet you a million Euros that we can produce a car that's very similar to an existing production car but with less performance and less options and limit it to say 600 unites and we will see some customers shedding significantly more money for it and dying to own one".

 PAG could've saved themselves & their customers the hassle and introduced the manual gear as an option along with PDK from the beginning on the GT3/RS models. This R thing would've really been a pointless exercise.

The most pointless car was the 997 Sport Classic in my opinion and look at prices right now...  

I still believe a 911 R will come, the question is only if this car will be only interesting for collectors or true enthusiasts as well? The 997 GT3 RS 4.0 was a car for enthusiasts and it was fast too. Not so sure about the 911 R anymore but I still would love to own one. A GT3 without the wing was always a dream of mine.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Grant:

 

Yes, it is a pretty cynical exercise.  Porsche knows that if they build a car like this in limited numbers, it is highly likely to appreciate in value beyond a GT3 (and maybe RS too).  But instead of letting the buying make the profit, Porsche is collecting the profit on the front end, at the time of sale.

Grant, I guess it depends on the perspective - what may appear cynical from an enthusiast point of view may just look professional/ good practise from a CFO/shareholder point of view  I am sure there are some hot discussions going on at Porsche regarding pricing strategy lately....

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Porsche-Jeck:

Grant:

 

Yes, it is a pretty cynical exercise.  Porsche knows that if they build a car like this in limited numbers, it is highly likely to appreciate in value beyond a GT3 (and maybe RS too).  But instead of letting the buying make the profit, Porsche is collecting the profit on the front end, at the time of sale.

Grant, I guess it depends on the perspective - what may appear cynical from an enthusiast point of view may just look professional/ good practise from a CFO/shareholder point of view  I am sure there are some hot discussions going on at Porsche regarding pricing strategy lately....

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Porsche-Jeck:

Grant:

 

Yes, it is a pretty cynical exercise.  Porsche knows that if they build a car like this in limited numbers, it is highly likely to appreciate in value beyond a GT3 (and maybe RS too).  But instead of letting the buying make the profit, Porsche is collecting the profit on the front end, at the time of sale.

Grant, I guess it depends on the perspective - what may appear cynical from an enthusiast point of view may just look professional/ good practise from a CFO/shareholder point of view  I am sure there are some hot discussions going on at Porsche regarding pricing strategy lately....

Hopefully in addition to pricing strategy, they are also considering production numbers.  I'd much rather see 2,000 units at $150k than 600 units at $200k.  While the latter may be preferable to Porsche for some reasons, they risk annoying their customer base which can have long-term problems.

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi