Crown

I am not so sure that the car will have less power than the 991 GT3 RS...

A purist 911 dedicated to the proposition of analog sports driving pleasure so expensive and built in such few numbers as to almost guarantee it will rarely be driven as intended by the majority of owners. There is an oxymoron in there of some sort.

--

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

TurboRalf:

I am not so sure that the car will have less power than the 991 GT3 RS...

According to my information, somewhere between 460 and 480 hp but under 500 hp.

4.0 l engine seems to be confirmed though but like I said before, I don't have much information to go with since this car is pretty much an open secret but a well kept one.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

DaveC:

A purist 911 dedicated to the proposition of analog sports driving pleasure so expensive and built in such few numbers as to almost guarantee it will rarely be driven as intended by the majority of owners. There is an oxymoron in there of some sort.

--

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

 

I'm afraid so. Many owners will close the car away for good and thats it.

Only a few owners will actually drive it I'm afraid, which is a shame.

I would get the R in a heartbeat if I could afford it but this is life. You can have something but you don't have the money. Others have the money but can't have it (well, not at MSRP or immediately when it comes out). The mysteries of life. LOL

Even with manual, this car would be a dream car for me but I have heard a few rumors that Porsche is at least considering a next GT3 version with optional rear seats and maybe an optional rear wing delete. This is however something which is not on their priority list and the Motorsport guys certainly aren't too pleased, so the discussions will continue. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

TurboRalf:

I am not so sure that the car will have less power than the 991 GT3 RS...

According to my information, somewhere between 460 and 480 hp but under 500 hp.

4.0 l engine seems to be confirmed though but like I said before, I don't have much information to go with since this car is pretty much an open secret but a well kept one.

Makes sense that it would have less power than RS (at least at speed), since it has no side intakes.

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

DaveC:

A purist 911 dedicated to the proposition of analog sports driving pleasure so expensive and built in such few numbers as to almost guarantee it will rarely be driven as intended by the majority of owners. There is an oxymoron in there of some sort.

But no more so than the likes of purist F1 McLarens, F40 Ferraris etc etc which have also ended up as collections.... or for that matter sports car owners who purposely restrict their mileage because of future sales values. 

2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

4trac:

DaveC:

A purist 911 dedicated to the proposition of analog sports driving pleasure so expensive and built in such few numbers as to almost guarantee it will rarely be driven as intended by the majority of owners. There is an oxymoron in there of some sort.

But no more so than the likes of purist F1 McLarens, F40 Ferraris etc etc which have also ended up as collections.... or for that matter sports car owners who purposely restrict their mileage because of future sales values. 

I do not understand these people. Collectors are usually very rich people, people who have tens or even hundreds of millions, maybe even billions. If I had that much money, I would drive the hell out of these cars and wouldn't care about resale value or collector's value. I love cars but I love even more to drive them. Some people love to see cars in their collections, all clean and shiny and in a dust free environment. I love to drive the hell out of them and if I get to clean them, I usually put them through an automatic washing system or I wash them rapidly by hand. Waxing or whatever? Nah. No time for that sh.t. I'd pay someone to do that for me. 

Seriously, what is more fun than actually driving your car(s)? Cleaning them? Looking at them? Seriously? No. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

If I had that much money, I would drive the hell out of these cars and wouldn't care about resale value or collector's value.
--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

 

That's why you are not a multimillionaires and they are 

Some of the richest people I know do not waist money on something that will loose . So collecting is fine as you make money, driving them, not .

Imagine your fortune if you had stayed with a nice gold TDI all these years and invested the money spent on cars 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

RC:

If I had that much money, I would drive the hell out of these cars and wouldn't care about resale value or collector's value.
--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

 

That's why you are not a multimillionaires and they are 

Some of the richest people I know do not waist money on something that will loose . So collecting is fine as you make money, driving them, not .

Imagine your fortune if you had stayed with a nice gold TDI all these years and invested the money spent on cars 

I know some very rich people who enjoy themselves a lot, so I guess you know the "wrong" people.  In Europe, very wealthy people are usually more careful with showing off and spending money for pleasure. In other parts of the world, things usually look different but I also know a couple of Europeans who live pretty modest in their home country but when they get out... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

any information about the 991.2 Gt3 or RS.  Are they going to be turbo charged? 

superman32:

any information about the 991.2 Gt3 or RS.  Are they going to be turbo charged? 

 

Good question!  Also will be interesting to see what the 981.2 GT4 has for a motor... 

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

I think Andreas Preuninger clearly communicated that we will see normally aspirated engines in the GT-models for some time.

Guys,

this is for me a crucial question right now : do I trade my 991 GT3, fully loaded, 6850 km, sometime this year, and make a down payment for,the next one, at the condition this will be a n/a engine ?

if this will be turbo charged, then this one will normally get a extreme value, as only 1200 something had been produced and .... Less than the RS 

if some people have reliable info, please raise your hand !!

i hope to get some information in some weeks otherwise.....

RC, no news since last time ?

thanks ,!

997 Carrera S Triple Black Sold now ... Good car 997 GT3 triple black wow what a car !!!

TurboRalf:

I think Andreas Preuninger clearly communicated that we will see normally aspirated engines in the GT-models for some time.

He did, but circumstances in racing as well as at VW could have changed his plans...

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

RC:

DaveC:

A purist 911 dedicated to the proposition of analog sports driving pleasure so expensive and built in such few numbers as to almost guarantee it will rarely be driven as intended by the majority of owners. There is an oxymoron in there of some sort.

--

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

 

I'm afraid so. Many owners will close the car away for good and thats it.

Only a few owners will actually drive it I'm afraid, which is a shame.

I would get the R in a heartbeat if I could afford it but this is life. You can have something but you don't have the money. Others have the money but can't have it (well, not at MSRP or immediately when it comes out). The mysteries of life. LOL

Even with manual, this car would be a dream car for me but I have heard a few rumors that Porsche is at least considering a next GT3 version with optional rear seats and maybe an optional rear wing delete. This is however something which is not on their priority list and the Motorsport guys certainly aren't too pleased, so the discussions will continue. 

honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

What people want is the whole experience of the GT3 but so you can drive your kids and without wing so the car is less flashy. Makes perfect sense, the performance compromise would be minimal...

Then it is not a GT3.  Personally if these cars become any more livable than they already are, they will lose some of that Motorsport feel and sense of ocassion.  Go drive a 996 GT3 to compare.   

I welcome a model with the Motorsport engine, no wing.  Put it on street tires, tune the suspension a bit softer.  This leaves room to make the GT models a bit harder edged.  RS should be a cup car for the road.  

pmarkow:

 

honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

Nobody cares what they call it, they want the car not the badge. Its as simple as some people wanting a sportier version of a Carrera, without the limitations of a GT3 like lack of rear seats for your kids or for other the GT3 looks which may be a bit to flashy for some, etc.
Who cares what the point of the GT cars are, some GT3RS drivers could say the same thing about the regular GT3, nobody is saying this version has to be called a GT3 car, call it a future GTS or 911R or whatever. As to the Panamera comment, I really hope you are joking if you want to be taken seriously... 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

pmarkow:

 

honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

Nobody cares what they call it, they want the car not the badge. Its as simple as some people wanting a sportier version of a Carrera, without the limitations of a GT3 like lack of rear seats for your kids or for other the GT3 looks which may be a bit to flashy for some, etc.
Who cares what the point of the GT cars are, some GT3RS drivers could say the same thing about the regular GT3, nobody is saying this version has to be called a GT3 car, call it a future GTS or 911R or whatever. As to the Panamera comment, I really hope you are joking if you want to be taken seriously... 

As far as I see it, the GTS is exactly in this position. It is a sportier non GT3 911. Yes, the engine is still a bit different, but come on - it is damn close. Also the normal GT3 is barely daily drivable and really already very rough, while the GTS is the compromise of all - very sporty,still usable. The 911R is a limited version, so whatever it will be, it is a car which will damn in the Garages not on the street - unfortunately!

Damn? Don't think so, no matter where it's at.

Lars997:

Carlos from Spain:

pmarkow:

 

honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

Nobody cares what they call it, they want the car not the badge. Its as simple as some people wanting a sportier version of a Carrera, without the limitations of a GT3 like lack of rear seats for your kids or for other the GT3 looks which may be a bit to flashy for some, etc.
Who cares what the point of the GT cars are, some GT3RS drivers could say the same thing about the regular GT3, nobody is saying this version has to be called a GT3 car, call it a future GTS or 911R or whatever. As to the Panamera comment, I really hope you are joking if you want to be taken seriously... 

As far as I see it, the GTS is exactly in this position. It is a sportier non GT3 911. Yes, the engine is still a bit different, but come on - it is damn close. Also the normal GT3 is barely daily drivable and really already very rough, while the GTS is the compromise of all - very sporty,still usable. The 911R is a limited version, so whatever it will be, it is a car which will damn in the Garages not on the street - unfortunately!

Right, thats precisely why I choose the GTS myself, but lots of people would welcome a GTS-like build but with GT3's engine and tranny though. I agree with the 911R too, most will end up as garage queens unfortunately due to their low production and inflated pricetag.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Lars997:

Carlos from Spain:

pmarkow:

 

honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

Nobody cares what they call it, they want the car not the badge. Its as simple as some people wanting a sportier version of a Carrera, without the limitations of a GT3 like lack of rear seats for your kids or for other the GT3 looks which may be a bit to flashy for some, etc.
Who cares what the point of the GT cars are, some GT3RS drivers could say the same thing about the regular GT3, nobody is saying this version has to be called a GT3 car, call it a future GTS or 911R or whatever. As to the Panamera comment, I really hope you are joking if you want to be taken seriously... 

As far as I see it, the GTS is exactly in this position. It is a sportier non GT3 911. Yes, the engine is still a bit different, but come on - it is damn close. Also the normal GT3 is barely daily drivable and really already very rough, while the GTS is the compromise of all - very sporty,still usable. The 911R is a limited version, so whatever it will be, it is a car which will damn in the Garages not on the street - unfortunately!

Right, thats precisely why I choose the GTS myself, but lots of people would welcome a GTS-like build but with GT3's engine and tranny though. I agree with the 911R too, most will end up as garage queens unfortunately due to their low production and inflated pricetag.

Certainly people always are craving for stronger engines. Especially the shorter gear ratio of the GT3 brings the acceleration advantage which might be the most significant difference. But if that gear ratio works well in daily handling?

Check those two articles, very interesting reads! Especially interesting is, that the Cayment outhandles the bigger brothers:  http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-911-gt3-versus-911-gts-and-cayman-gts-comparison

Second to watch - they even say forget about the GT3, the GTS is the one to have!  http://www.carscoops.com/2015/02/forget-gt3-xcar-says-porsche-911.html

Carlos from Spain:

pmarkow:

 

honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

Nobody cares what they call it, they want the car not the badge. Its as simple as some people wanting a sportier version of a Carrera, without the limitations of a GT3 like lack of rear seats for your kids or for other the GT3 looks which may be a bit to flashy for some, etc.
Who cares what the point of the GT cars are, some GT3RS drivers could say the same thing about the regular GT3, nobody is saying this version has to be called a GT3 car, call it a future GTS or 911R or whatever. As to the Panamera comment, I really hope you are joking if you want to be taken seriously... 

even at the risk of not being taken seriously by you, a four-seater sports car is a contradiction in terms for me. very little difference to a panamera (maybe only 400kg difference:::)))). 

cheers peter

pmarkow:

Carlos from Spain:

pmarkow:

 

honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

Nobody cares what they call it, they want the car not the badge. Its as simple as some people wanting a sportier version of a Carrera, without the limitations of a GT3 like lack of rear seats for your kids or for other the GT3 looks which may be a bit to flashy for some, etc.
Who cares what the point of the GT cars are, some GT3RS drivers could say the same thing about the regular GT3, nobody is saying this version has to be called a GT3 car, call it a future GTS or 911R or whatever. As to the Panamera comment, I really hope you are joking if you want to be taken seriously... 

even at the risk of not being taken seriously by you, a four-seater sports car is a contradiction in terms for me. very little difference to a panamera (maybe only 400kg difference:::)))). 

cheers peter

Reducing a "sportscar" to the number of seats it has is too simplistic for me and too superficial. Steering feel, handling dynamics, exhaust sound, transmission behaviour, brake feel, agility, driving position, weight, traction, etc... those parameters to me is what define sportcar'ness.

There are 2+2 cars that come as close to a sportscar as you can get, and there are two seater sportcars that feel and behave like a sportsedan, the fact ti has two seats doesn't make it sportier than the first unless you just base sportcars on looks. The GT3RS is a sporty as you can get yet it has a 2+2 seat configuration even thought the cushions for the seats have been removed. 

But to put a Panamera on the same sentence as a 911as interchangeable options just because they both have some type of rear seats, it can't be taken seriously especially not on a sportcas forum were the audience is made up of experienced sportcar enthusiasts, is like putting sangria and a prized red wine on the same sentence just because they have the same color and both have alcohol...

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Interesting that Porsche charges extra for PDK even though most people get that option. Now comes the R and they essentially charge you for 10 PDK transmissions to get a manual. And all that expense to get a 'Motorsports' engine which has never raced.  Gone are the good old days when all had real motorsports engines (and a back seat) and an automatic option which, if you got it, destroyed resale value. 

Personally I am not a fan of PDK but if the ratios remain as in the GT3 people will have a hard time getting much out of first gear with a manual. With a six speed it will likely have a pretty tall first gear though and the launch off the line will suck vs even a normal 911 with PDK. This may be a special edition which is not investment grade. Ever. 

Leawood911:

Interesting that Porsche charges extra for PDK even though most people get that option. Now comes the R and they essentially charge you for 10 PDK transmissions to get a manual. And all that expense to get a 'Motorsports' engine which has never raced.  Gone are the good old days when all had real motorsports engines (and a back seat) and an automatic option which, if you got it, destroyed resale value. 

Personally I am not a fan of PDK but if the ratios remain as in the GT3 people will have a hard time getting much out of first gear with a manual. With a six speed it will likely have a pretty tall first gear though and the launch off the line will suck vs even a normal 911 with PDK. This may be a special edition which is not investment grade. Ever. 

Hey - you can buy your wife a bag for 100 bucks or you can buy a handbag for 10.000! All is possible, they more or less will do the same purpose. What you are buying is the name and image. Luxury! Same with that car - it is limited, rare and you are buying the image, name, design! 

When I think of a Porsche having the same value as a $10000 handbag I'm done with Porsche. 

Leawood911:

Interesting that Porsche charges extra for PDK even though most people get that option. Now comes the R and they essentially charge you for 10 PDK transmissions to get a manual. And all that expense to get a 'Motorsports' engine which has never raced.  Gone are the good old days when all had real motorsports engines (and a back seat) and an automatic option which, if you got it, destroyed resale value. 

Personally I am not a fan of PDK but if the ratios remain as in the GT3 people will have a hard time getting much out of first gear with a manual. With a six speed it will likely have a pretty tall first gear though and the launch off the line will suck vs even a normal 911 with PDK. This may be a special edition which is not investment grade. Ever. 

     The engine in the 2016 991 GT 3 R (race car)  is the racing application of the 9A1 engine which is installed in the GT3 / RS and soon R.  The  question  is whether this engine will prove competitive as their predecessors were. 

With regards to the automatic option, one should also recall  that with the 1967 911 R  Porsche used for the first time and successfully the  Sportomatic transmission winning the Marathon de la Route race (a 84 hours endurance race).  Therefore a PDK option on the 991 R would have stayed within the spirit and concept of the original 1967 car.  I am sure we will be pleasantly  surprised by the R.

m4ever:

The engine in the 2016 991 GT 3 R (race car)  is the racing application of the 9A1 engine which is installed in the GT3 / RS and soon R.  The  question  is whether this engine will prove competitive as their predecessors were. 

911 GT3 R debuts at Datona 24H 30-31 jan. Can be watched on the IMSA Smartphone App.

"The new 911 GT3 R, which will be campaigned by customer teams, was run at Daytona for the first time with the new ultra-modern four-litre flat-six engine with direct fuel injection. Porsche built the 500 hp racing car, based on the 911 GT3 RS production sports car, for GT3 series worldwide."

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/motorsports/porsche-motorsports-daytona-test-day-2-911-rsr-911gtr3-imsa-weathertech-2016-12144.h...

pmarkow:

RC:

DaveC:

A purist 911 dedicated to the proposition of analog sports driving pleasure so expensive and built in such few numbers as to almost guarantee it will rarely be driven as intended by the majority of owners. There is an oxymoron in there of some sort.

--

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

 

I'm afraid so. Many owners will close the car away for good and thats it.

Only a few owners will actually drive it I'm afraid, which is a shame.

I would get the R in a heartbeat if I could afford it but this is life. You can have something but you don't have the money. Others have the money but can't have it (well, not at MSRP or immediately when it comes out). The mysteries of life. LOL

Even with manual, this car would be a dream car for me but I have heard a few rumors that Porsche is at least considering a next GT3 version with optional rear seats and maybe an optional rear wing delete. This is however something which is not on their priority list and the Motorsport guys certainly aren't too pleased, so the discussions will continue. 

honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

Simple: Some people have kids. Some people have hobbies (golf, whatever). Some people have pets. Some people love to travel with their loved one in a sports car and take more than just a bag with them. Some people cannot afford to have ten cars (or just two or three) at a time. Was it really that hard?! 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)