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    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    W8MM:

    Smiley I would prefer the MP5 A4 for close quarters combat. Wonderful weapon. No, I don't have one, I have a P99 but I saw it in (passive) action a couple of times and it is very light and stealth.

    The M107 Barrett is not really a weapon you want to use to fight off hoards of people or people who attack your house. Smiley Also, not very good for your shoulders and at around 15 kg weight (loaded), not really nice to carry around with you. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Check out the new MP7. That is an amazing little weapon.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Think I would prefer a FN P90.


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    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    MP 7 has been out since 2000, so maybe it's only news to Canadians.indecision  


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Newer than RC's MP5...

    I'm not a fan of bullpups so the P90 does nothing for me. I do like FN though (used to shoot a Hi-Power competition a lot when I was part of a club) and the Five-Seven is very interesting.


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    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Mthras, with your background of shooting the fn competition, You would be completely bored shooting a five seven, recoil is about like a 22lr but the ammo costs a lot. The mp5 models still have some advantages. They never fail, and a loaded mp5 mag also makes a handy club, but the MP5 is  a annoying gun to clean cuz it's fluted chamber lets a lot of hot carbon scorch onto the bolt and inside the receiver. They to are  boringly ez to shoot, try a hk ump 45, not as compact as a mp5k /mp 5a4 but they are a lot more fun than a mp 7 , p90 or mp 5 and make bigger holes in things.indecision fwiw,  the mp7 doesn't have a very good rep as a stopper by some us units (seals) in the wot but the ump in 45 does with sf. 


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    I"m not even really a fan of low recoil. It's nice when you're shooting for a while but I prefer a little umph... One of my favorites used to be an old Colt 1911 with a .22 conversion. It was ancient but worked perfectly. Recoil was a bit more than a .38, so not too much but just nice. It was also dead cheap to shoot, about the only good thing about a .22.

    It would be nearly impossible to get a hold of an MP5 or 7 or UMP in Canada.

    I can see how any of those small calibers would be a poor stopper in real life. Might be hot and go through armour but as you say, big holes etc...
    --

     

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    You might be surprised about their availability in Canada, take a look.


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Mithras:

    Newer than RC's MP5...

    I'm not a fan of bullpups so the P90 does nothing for me. I do like FN though (used to shoot a Hi-Power competition a lot when I was part of a club) and the Five-Seven is very interesting.

    The MP5 A4 (also known as the latest version of the MP5K) is not an old weapon, the latest version is actually quite up to date and very reliable. This is a weapon used especially by government body guards and special forces.

    No, it is basically impossible for a private person to get this weapon in Germany, even with a license.

    csm_MP5K_re_22fd18d65c.png


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    I'm actually like my Tavor 5.56 bullpup for close quarter usage:

    No special license or permits required in USA since it is semi-auto in the configuration I own.


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    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    This thread has got to be getting the anti-gun crowd very concerned.

    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    specially since the thread is about "comedians in cars getting coffee"


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    BjoernB:

    specially since the thread is about "comedians in cars getting coffee"

    Oh well...at least we didn't involve Obama. Oh wait...we actually did. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    W8MM:

    I'm actually like my Tavor 5.56 bullpup for close quarter usage:

    No special license or permits required in USA since it is semi-auto in the configuration I own.


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

    Still a bit on the bulky side.

    Get the PS90 instead...slightly lighter and you can hide two of them in special shoulder holsters under your jacket. Smiley

    The PS90 is the semi-automatic configuration of the P90 but similar in efficiency.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    The Russians were way ahead of everybody with the aks74u krinkov,. You can hide it under a coat and it does deliver a pretty good punch. Problem with the wests small caliber pdws is that they don't have much energy left at 100m,which sounds far for cqc but experiences in urban warfare and raids in villages showed that assaulters doing a raid on a building might also have to neutralize enemy fire coming 100m away from enemy overwatch people. You can hit targets at 200m with a krink all day long. Western pdws are really best suited for close in VIP security or police in "friendly" countries.  Israel has had a lot of success with the micro tavor which is more compact but it's still awkward to shoot left handed around corners and barricades because of empty case ejection. So my vote is for Mother Russia on this topic.indecision​ 


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    JimFlat6:

    The Russians were way ahead of everybody with the aks74u krinkov,. You can hide it under a coat and it does deliver a pretty good punch. Problem with the wests small caliber pdws is that they don't have much energy left at 100m,which sounds far for cqc but experiences in urban warfare and raids in villages showed that assaulters doing a raid on a building might also have to neutralize enemy fire coming 100m away from enemy overwatch people. You can hit targets at 200m with a krink all day long. Western pdws are really best suited for close in VIP security or police in "friendly" countries.  Israel has had a lot of success with the micro tavor which is more compact but it's still awkward to shoot left handed around corners and barricades because of empty case ejection. So my vote is for Mother Russia on this topic.indecision​ 

    Depends on what we are discussing here: Protecting your private home or fighting off a group of rebels attacking. Smiley

    Seriously: For normal every day protection, a simple gun like a P99 or whatever is more than enough to protect you (if you know how to use it). Weapons with more punch or better range won't help you much inside your house or even in your garden, on the contrary.

    People living in remote areas, far away from the next police station and/or a town, should better invest in good intruder protection like heavy doors and solid window frames, even break-in resistant glass and of course a safe room (or panic room) you can easily access fast, even at night (best: directly from your bedroom). Our front door weights 300 kg for example and it is massive wood with a steel core. When you open it, it feels as if you open a vault. Smiley 

    I do not think that having an entire armory in a private house makes the residents safer. This could be a very dangerous illusion.

    The US however has a different situation than Germany for example. Last time my wife accidentally set off the (intruder...no siren...it is silent to give the intruder a feel of safety) alarm, the police was inside our living room within the next five minutes, pretty impressive (not so impressive their reaction to the false alarm and the 170 EUR fine I had to pay for that). We have police stations quite close to our residential areas, even outside of cities, so the police arrives pretty fast. I know it is much different in the US, where the police may need half and hour or longer to reach your home.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    For normal home protection (if you feel that you need it) I think a Mossberg 590 would beat any of those guns listed above. 

    The best home defense remains a large dog.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    I would never buy a gun but these look really cool


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    I guess it all depends upon your local situation and your local laws regarding use of deadly force. In some locales in the US police will delay responding to home burglary alarms for a variety of reasons. As for shotguns or a carbine without a suppressor if its dark in the house you are going to temporarily lose your night vision and your hearing with the first shot. Not good. Something quieter with a small flash signature that you can wield while on  the phone makes sense and it should be useable by your wife or gf in case you are incapacitated.


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    W8MM:

    I'm actually like my Tavor 5.56 bullpup for close quarter usage:

    No special license or permits required in USA since it is semi-auto in the configuration I own.


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

     

    You are such a big guy that gun would look like a pistol when you are holding it haha


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    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Mithras:

    For normal home protection (if you feel that you need it) I think a Mossberg 590 would beat any of those guns listed above. 

    The best home defense remains a large dog.

    Yeah, very precise and deadly weapon...if you have a firm grip and you're not nervous at all. Smiley Also, you need to be close, especially in the dark.

    With the small semi-automatics I suggested, you basically have to pull the trigger and somewhat point into the direction of the intruder. Not precise targeting necessary. Smiley You will hit him eventually. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Then get a Bellini M4. Semi-auto shotgun that will shoot 54 almost 9mm sized pellets (00 buckshot) in six trigger pulls. 

    Still doesn't beat this for deterrence...


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Mithras:

    Then get a Bellini M4. Semi-auto shotgun that will shoot 54 almost 9mm sized pellets (00 buckshot) in six trigger pulls. 

    Still doesn't beat this for deterrence...

    Not a fan of guard dogs, sorry... Also, they can be easily "put out" Smiley if they are not specifically trained for the job. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Dogs can be poisoned beforehand...


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Better to move to a better neighborhood. Having to shoot someone in your own house would be awful, not just from the legal implications, your neighbors looking at you differently but someone will have to clean up the mess. There is no police agency that provides free home cleaning for justifiable homicides. Having some guy bleed out on your floor and or have bits of his flesh and gizzards blown onto your walls leaves quite the mess. It also stinks. Would you get lucky and they just bleed out internally? Who knows. Likely you will have to hire a specialist company to clean it up and may have to replace stained flooring, room wall etc..and when you go to sell the  house many states require home sellers to disclose that a homicide , justified or not, happened there which will hurt sales price. Just something to think about in realsville.


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    JimFlat6:

    Better to move to a better neighborhood. Having to shoot someone in your own house would be awful, not just from the legal implications, your neighbors looking at you differently but someone will have to clean up the mess. There is no police agency that provides free home cleaning for justifiable homicides. Having some guy bleed out on your floor and or have bits of his flesh and gizzards blown onto your walls leaves quite the mess. It also stinks. Would you get lucky and they just bleed out internally? Who knows. Likely you will have to hire a specialist company to clean it up and may have to replace stained flooring, room wall etc..and when you go to sell the  house many states require home sellers to disclose that a homicide , justified or not, happened there which will hurt sales price. Just something to think about in realsville.





    Jim, are you a sociopath or so? I hope you were kidding, cause the lack of human empathy is somewhat disturbing to me tbh... I nean, even if it was some cold-blooded murderer I'd kill, I'd be more worried about the psychological effects it would have on me than the house... Just cpean, sell and be done with it.
    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    Joost, don't worry. I just stated some facts in a plain manner. I'll give you some more. Your neighbors,friends and co workers will look at you and treat you differently.  You will likely need some counseling do deal with the trauma of both the event and also its aftermath. I get the feeling that people think that events where deadly force is used are all clean and neat like they are in the movies. They aren't. Sorry the grim detail bits shocked you but they are part of the reality of such events. Notice that I prefaced it with advice to move to a better neighborhood. Sorry but I take discussion about use of deadly force very seriously.

     

     


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    On a lighter note on that topic there is a good little movie called "Sunshine Cleaners" with Emily Blunt & Amy Adams about crime scene cleaners. Yes, it really is a thing.

    And I disagree about a dog, yes if someone has made a concerted effort to get to you (how often does that actually happen where there is a planned invasion to the point where they know about and account for a dog by poisoning it beforehand??) a dog is much more of a deterrent than a gun which is in the closet when you're in the kitchen. Also a dog is MUCH better in the middle of the night at recognizing a family member vs. an intruder that you would ever be. 

    When I was young my mom had two men come to the door saying they were movers and trying to talk their way into the house through the closed screen door. They eventually started to try and force their way in. A gun in the bedroom would have done nothing. Our 60 pound (untrained) dog foaming at the mouth in rage at those two because of my mom's fear did a lot. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    JimFlat6:

    Better to move to a better neighborhood. Having to shoot someone in your own house would be awful, not just from the legal implications, your neighbors looking at you differently but someone will have to clean up the mess. There is no police agency that provides free home cleaning for justifiable homicides. Having some guy bleed out on your floor and or have bits of his flesh and gizzards blown onto your walls leaves quite the mess. It also stinks. Would you get lucky and they just bleed out internally? Who knows. Likely you will have to hire a specialist company to clean it up and may have to replace stained flooring, room wall etc..and when you go to sell the  house many states require home sellers to disclose that a homicide , justified or not, happened there which will hurt sales price. Just something to think about in realsville.

    Sounds horrible but very true. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Seinfeld, Obama, and 63 Corvette

    So many hard decisions when someone tries to break into your house.  If you shoot them while they are still trying to get in you pretty much have to drag them inside or else it looks like you jumped the gun (pardon the pun).

    A neighbor shot an intruder with a shotgun while coming in the window.  Knocked the guy back outside with the blast.  He did not kill him so then the burglar sued him for excessive force.  Better aim next time he told me.

    Back to the thread - glad he did not give Obama a ride in a Porsche thought that would not have been politically correct.  I bet that was not even Seinfelds Vette.  I doubt he enjoyed the Vette ride at all.  Good year thought - 1963.  When I was born next to the 911 in Sept. near Frankfurt.

     


     
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