lukestern:
Carlos from Spain:
lukestern:
RC:
noone1:
RC:
olli:
82% of Cayenne sales in Germany are with Diesel engines, similar order of magnutude for the Macan. There is an anti-Diesel shitstorm going on here these days, so the move would be politically expedient but risky from a P&L perspective. Plus Audi as supplier of all those Diesel engines would not like it at all...could result in quite a shouting match at VW Group board level.
Sales of hydrids continue to lag and the Mission E aka J1 is at least 2 years down the road.
The sales of hybrids lag because they...suck. Let Porsche offer a Turbo S hybrid for 120k EUR and this car will sell like crazy, same goes for a Cayenne Turbo S. For close to 200k or more? Not really a big market there.
Tesla sells their Tesla S and X models through performance. Nobody would buy them if they did 0-100 kph in 6 seconds, the Tesla S gained it's "reputation" by doing 0-100 kph under 3 seconds. I understand why Porsche and such are afraid to put an ELV on the road which might be faster in a drag race than their sports cars but in my opinion, this is a different buying group. I would never buy an ELV over a 911, even if the ELV would be faster straight line.
Didn't someone on here just say how shitty the new Panamera Hybrid was? And didn't you confirm it was shitty?
That person was talking about the eHybrid, not the Turbo S. The Turbo S is great but way too expensive in my book.
I think that person was me after my test drive in the 4 e-hybrid.
Not sure why the Turbo S e-hybrid should be any better? It's the exact same implementation in both cars. Only difference is the V8 vs. V6. E-motor/battery is the same. Yes, there is PDCC and PCCB standard on the TS, but the issue I had with the 4 e-hybrid was mainly the integration between e-motor and petrol engine and PDK-gearbox. It was just a unpleasant experience and the 136hp e-engine is underpowered for such a big car. TS is even heavier than the 4
Completely different implementation, think 918. One is a small underpowered engine with a hybrid to help with mileage, sucks big time, and the other is a monster engine with a hybrid to increase performance further, sure you can use the hybrid in the S to better the mileage but that is not the objective otherwise it wouldn't have that big engine in the first place, but step down hard on the throttle and you will what that V8 with an extra instant 100 electrical horses are for...
I'm actually pretty sure the issues I had with the 4 e-Hybrid are the same with the TS e-Hybrid. So this require a bit more explanation then...
There are no issues with the hybrid integration when you drive it in Sport Plus mode. In that mode the petrol engine is always engaged and you will get the full combined power output with the e-boost on top of the normal 550hp V8. That's great news.
What is not so much great news is when you daily drive your Panamera and don't want to have it in Sport Plus holding on to gears very long. e.g. if you cruise at 80km/h on a country road or 130km/h on a motorway. In this scenario you probably have either Hybrid mode or E-mode engaged. If you in any of these modes decide to accelerate under any circumstances, this is where it starts to get really bad. If you run in e-mode, the car @ 80km/h is relying on the emotor. There is a resistance under the pedal where you feel when the the max e-motor power is reached, you also can visualize this in the gauge on the instrument cluster where a number of acid green arrows moves up to max e-power. When you reach over that threshold, the petrol engine kicks in. And it does so with a big clunk and you go from smooth e-drive to unrefined drive and not very premium experience. The feeling is just not very pleasing and it comes like a surprise when you move from a calm drive on electric to this jerky feeling with pdk-box undecided which gear to be in and petrol engine/e-motor try to work together. The petrol engine will always kick-in if you push the throttle for overtaking a lorry or just decide to put your right foot down. This makes sense, because the limit of 136hp comes quite fast when trying to accelerate 2,5 ton forward. It's much smoother to do the same thing with the normal Turbo which I also have driven (actually, I have tested all the Panamera engines, except for the Turbo S. The 4 e-hybrid is the last one I would pick in the range).
The other issue is when running in full e-mode. Because Porsche decided to put the e-motor between the gearbox and the engine, the car has to switch gears even in e-mode. So when you drive around in this smooth e-mode you feel som clunky gear changes that to me felt worse than a normal PDK-gear change in a petrol version. It was a very strange feeling. And compared with a full electric car it didn't feel as smooth, direct and responsive. I was honestly surprised about this and was expecting much better in this new generation e-Hybrid just like a wrote in my review. Also the brake feeling was not up to normal Porsche standard. The way they have implemented regenerative braking is weird and the brakes felt much more swampy than on the normal Panamera brakes. A much better re-gen braking system is found in full electric vehicles where the re-gen kicks in when you left of the throttle and not when you brake hard.
I had hoped Porsche did some marvelous engineering to crack it with this latest version of e-hybrid solution, but to me it just felt like an unfinished product.
If I had the choice I would pick the 4S or Turbo before the e-hybrid. Hybrid just add weight and decrease boot capacity and it also consumes more petrol than the cars without hybrid due to higher weight. Only place it does make sense is if you drive 20km to work in EV mode, but for doing that commute, there are in my view better alternatives.
Hope that clarified it a bit more. If I get the opportunity to test a Turbo S that would be a nice experience to see and compare. Not sure that there will be any demo cars available at my dealership though, but we'll see.
While I haven't driven a hybrid Panamera yet, I have rode in the 4 e-hybrid many times as Porsche was driving us around at Goodwood in such a car. The e-motor is perfectly fine where it is. It gains the torque multiplier from the gearbox through shifting and it's basically the same as in the 918. A Tesla is straining the e-motor at the top end without a gearbox because of the ultra high revolutions, that's why that car doesn't perform well as speed. And the shifts? Perfectly fine for a luxury car, there is no jerkiness. Not sure how you would call those nice shifts jerky, I was a passenger and I can't even feel the shifts.
Hybrid mode on Porsche's hybrid cars are pointless, I never used it on the 918. With such a powerful exhaust sound it gets annoying real quick for all the constant starting of the engine.
Sports PLUS mode is for spirited driving, of course it will hold gear longer. That's why if someone wants a smooth ride they use either e-mode or Sports mode.
The brakes, pretty sure they are implemented exactly the same way as in a 918, so it is also perfectly fine as how Porsche wanted them. When one lifts the throttle, there is a slight regen going on, but will wait for driver's input before going full regen and then engage the brake disks, just like any other normal car. This is unlike a electric car that needs every little bit of electricity and jerking the driver's head forward with full regen the moment one lifts off the throttle, that's silly. Up to I believe 0.3g it's all regen braking, in the 918 it's 0.5g.
The Turbo S e-hybrid will act exactly the same way, this is the proper way to do a hybrid where the driving experience mirrors a a normal car, not a golf cart. And the electric system is a supplement to the gasoline engine, not the other way around.
As for the suddenly transition from e-power to adding gas power, IT'S A PORSCHE!!! not a limp mode Lexus. Of course it needed to be exciting, engaging the gas engine is the most exciting part dude.
You are judging the car all wrong, you cannot use a Tesla EV's perspective to see the car, that will fail.
Look at the Panamera as a sport sedan that's also responsible to the environment. It has e-mode to drive around inner cities where there are congestion charges, can get on HOV lanes because of the hybrid system. and It will also save fuel during stop and go traffic. The e-mode is a supplementary system, not the primary system. In that regard, nothing touches it, not the BMW 7s, not the Mercedes Ss, not the Audi A8s. None of them can do HOV as a single rider, not avoid congestion charges, and their stop and go system is a fail as when the car is stopped the air-con stop running. On the Panamera everything is fine in electric mode.
All bets are off on the Mission E however, no one has any clue as to how Porsche have planned for that car.
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