Crown

KresoF1:

Are you serious?

Never!  (Wonder what I mean by that... ) 

I drove 99% of the 55'000 km done with my 991 Carrera S PDK in manual. And I loved it this way. Nothing different with the GTS, especially as the PDK is shifting faster in manual. One thing for sure is that I would never come back to a manual gearbox, however good is a GT4...

--

Nicolas
2016 991 Carrera 4 GTS PDK

Nico997:

...for sure is that I would never come back to a manual gearbox, however good is a GT4...

Just don't try one and your plan will work out 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

m4ever:

...I don`t try to convince anyone that likes  a manual that the PDK is the absolute better option (or the other way around). Let`s give credit to Porsche for offering this choice. 

+1 

Well put! 

Must have missed the GT4 PDK announcement... There is no choice...

Can we please stop claiming the PDK has a manual shifting mode?  The clutch is automated in every case.  Without a clutch the only manual process is selecting the next year not engaging the next gear.  The best you can do with a PDK is select gears not shift. Shifting manually is not possible without a clutch pedal. Period. End of story. Let's not change the meaning of manual shifting.  Now get me a ladder to get off this soap box. 

Personally I don't care if a car can shift itself quicker. I prefer the hard work of coordinating the gears and the rush of speed from my TT is still amazing each time. If my turbo were a PDK I would find it boring - gee like others here who owned a TT and found it boring. Of course some people will never admit that the boring part was the PDK. Lol 

Depends on the purpose of the vehicle, my PDK is boring but I wouldn't DD it if it was a manual with all the traffic around here.

Horses for courses 

SciFrog:

Must have missed the GT4 PDK announcement... There is no choice...

There is a choice among GT cars for the first time (used to be only manual, then only PDK-S, and now some of each).

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Whoopsy:

Or a movable dead pedal, so those who wants a clutch pedal feel can step on the dead pedal and pretend they did used the clutch on a PDK.

Call it David Copperfield Edition....The manual illusion Porsche Limited edition of a 991 for around 350.000,-- $

--

Being polite is so rare these days that it's often confused with flirting.

Leawood911:

Can we please stop claiming the PDK has a manual shifting mode? 

BjoernB:

Leawood911:

Can we please stop claiming the PDK has a manual shifting mode? 

Exactly! When I use PDK, I leave it in "auto" mode as the computer is pretty clever. But that does not mean I don't prefer manual! 

bluelines:

...but it looks like they will build an R with manual which is slower, yet more expensive, than the "better faster GT3 

To me, this is the real conundrum.... I guess the price/value equation is at work here. Not sure who said it but... 

 "He who knows the price of everything knows the value of nothing"

2010 997.2 GT3        2012  987.2 S Black Edition        2016 981 GT4

911R looks like it will be a limited edition. The GT3 and GT4 are not limited.

Grant:

SciFrog:

Must have missed the GT4 PDK announcement... There is no choice...

There is a choice among GT cars for the first time (used to be only manual, then only PDK-S, and now some of each).

Furthermore you can spec a Boxster, Cayman or a 911 with manual gearbox. Multiply the numbers of variants of each of those models and you end up with a quite large offer (i.e you could have a 911 base, 4 , S, 4S , Targa 4 , Targa 4S, GTS , Convertibles , with or without powerkits  in manual configuration).

SciFrog:

911R looks like it will be a limited edition. The GT3 and GT4 are not limited.

I think that was the only thing we always knew for sure about this car: it has a limited production number 

Probably with a neat little badge on the glove compartment. Porsche has learned that they can ask whatever premium they want for such a "limited" car. Look at the 997.2 Sport Classic or Speedster. They were nothing else than pimped up GTSs in a fancy color, but sold out for insane prices. Nice cars, but they were more limited than special IMHO. The R appears to be special since it will sport the GT3 engine and hopefully a manual to differentiate it from the normal GT3. 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

Porsche is learning from the best marketing machine, Ferrari...

SciFrog:

Porsche is learning from the best marketing machine, Ferrari...

If Ferrari was so smart, they would offer a limited run of their cars with gated manual shifter for a premium.  Maybe they will learn this trick from Porsche

--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

SciFrog:

Porsche is learning from the best marketing machine, Ferrari...

If Ferrari was so smart, they would offer a limited run of their cars with gated manual shifter for a premium.  Maybe they will learn this trick from Porsche

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

I honestly think one of the reasons that Ferrari sold so few Manual gearboxes (after F1 was available) is because they charged less for them.  Ferrari customers want the "best" and that is largely measured by pricing in that segment.

When Ferrari was having trouble selling cars in the US in the late 60's with the Daytona, they doubled the price and that caused sales to increase drastically...

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

I honestly think one of the reasons that Ferrari sold so few Manual gearboxes (after F1 was available) is because they charged less for them.  Ferrari customers want the "best" and that is largely measured by pricing in that segment.

When Ferrari was having trouble selling cars in the US in the late 60's with the Daytona, they doubled the price and that caused sales to increase drastically...

Koenigsegg experienced the same thing - not that they sell many cars but they started to be taken serious when they changed their prices.

bluelines:

This is a pointless argument since it is solely subjective. It is like discussing if red is better than yellow. People have different preferences and thankfully Porsche offered a choice with the GT4 being manual. Saying that it would have sold more if it was this way or that way is nothing else than speculation based on personal preference, especially if one has never even driven the car. Maybe if it had been pink and sported a Mini badge all the hairdressers would have gone bananas?

The fact that the GT4 won the eCoty 2015 and beat numerous 2-3 times more expensive super sports cars with dual-clutch transmissions is saying a lot. Really, a lot! I personally find this almost unbelievable and cannot wait to read the motivation. The eCoty is not decided by a single person, but by a group of auto journalists who get to drive everything. Yet, they choose a car with manual transmission. Or maybe it was the cup holders they fell in love with 

don't forget the UK journey are totally retro as far as manual transmissions are concerned. i put zero value into those tests. it is just that a bunch of english journalists repeated what they have said all the time.

that said i do not want to deny in the least that the GT4 is a fun car to drive.

peter

pmarkow:

bluelines:

This is a pointless argument since it is solely subjective. It is like discussing if red is better than yellow. People have different preferences and thankfully Porsche offered a choice with the GT4 being manual. Saying that it would have sold more if it was this way or that way is nothing else than speculation based on personal preference, especially if one has never even driven the car. Maybe if it had been pink and sported a Mini badge all the hairdressers would have gone bananas?

The fact that the GT4 won the eCoty 2015 and beat numerous 2-3 times more expensive super sports cars with dual-clutch transmissions is saying a lot. Really, a lot! I personally find this almost unbelievable and cannot wait to read the motivation. The eCoty is not decided by a single person, but by a group of auto journalists who get to drive everything. Yet, they choose a car with manual transmission. Or maybe it was the cup holders they fell in love with 

don't forget the UK journey are totally retro as far as manual transmissions are concerned. i put zero value into those tests. it is just that a bunch of english journalists repeated what they have said all the time.

that said i do not want to deny in the least that the GT4 is a fun car to drive.

peter

Exactly, you put the words in my mouth.  That's why I stopped reading EVO a long time ago.  They rehearse the same things over and over again.  If I want an informed opinion about a car, I listen to the respected members of this forum.

Ziggy:

don't forget the UK journey are totally retro as far as manual transmissions are concerned. i put zero value into those tests. it is just that a bunch of english journalists repeated what they have said all the time.

that said i do not want to deny in the least that the GT4 is a fun car to drive.

peter

Exactly, you put the words in my mouth.  That's why I stopped reading EVO a long time ago.  They rehearse the same things over and over again.  If I want an informed opinion about a car, I listen to the respected members of this forum.

It's important to find a journalist with whom you agree about things like taste and priorities when reading magazines.  I happen to agree with many of them at Evo, so it's useful for me.  I find the same thing with audio magazines.  I disagree 80% of the time, but knowing a couple reviewers with whom I agree makes reading their articles very valuable.

When possible, it's always best to take a test-drive (or test listen) and make one's own mind up.  But having trustworthy reviews is useful in narrowing the field of candidates or learning things that are not readily apparent after a few minutes of experience.
--

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

Ziggy:

don't forget the UK journey are totally retro as far as manual transmissions are concerned. i put zero value into those tests. it is just that a bunch of english journalists repeated what they have said all the time.

that said i do not want to deny in the least that the GT4 is a fun car to drive.

peter

Exactly, you put the words in my mouth.  That's why I stopped reading EVO a long time ago.  They rehearse the same things over and over again.  If I want an informed opinion about a car, I listen to the respected members of this forum.

It's important to find a journalist with whom you agree about things like taste and priorities when reading magazines.  I happen to agree with many of them at Evo, so it's useful for me.  I find the same thing with audio magazines.  I disagree 80% of the time, but knowing a couple reviewers with whom I agree makes reading their articles very valuable.

When possible, it's always best to take a test-drive (or test listen) and make one's own mind up.  But having trustworthy reviews is useful in narrowing the field of candidates or learning things that are not readily apparent after a few minutes of experience.
--

 

 

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

 

 

The problem is that their findings are quite regularly in contradiction with those of the respected members here. These are the "trustworthy" reviewers.

Grant:

Ziggy:

don't forget the UK journey are totally retro as far as manual transmissions are concerned. i put zero value into those tests. it is just that a bunch of english journalists repeated what they have said all the time.

that said i do not want to deny in the least that the GT4 is a fun car to drive.

peter

Exactly, you put the words in my mouth.  That's why I stopped reading EVO a long time ago.  They rehearse the same things over and over again.  If I want an informed opinion about a car, I listen to the respected members of this forum.

It's important to find a journalist with whom you agree about things like taste and priorities when reading magazines.  I happen to agree with many of them at Evo, so it's useful for me.  I find the same thing with audio magazines.  I disagree 80% of the time, but knowing a couple reviewers with whom I agree makes reading their articles very valuable.

When possible, it's always best to take a test-drive (or test listen) and make one's own mind up.  But having trustworthy reviews is useful in narrowing the field of candidates or learning things that are not readily apparent after a few minutes of experience.
--

 

 

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

 

 

Totally agree. Same thing with wine. There are a few critics I listen to, the rest hold little value because our tastes clash. 

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

Grant:

RC:

Fun fact: Drove twice with Walter Röhrl at the steering wheel in a PDK equipped 997 Turbo S and a 991 GT3 and both times, he didn't shift manually and let PDK do the job.

Right, any manual gearbox aficionado knows that pulling on an electric switch is not a substitute for a proper manual gearbox, so why bother  ?  I've heard that Walter prefers 3-pedal manuals (and that he likes his old Porsches more than the current ones - but he really likes the GT4 very much).

--

 

 

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

 

 

Its sometimes painful watching or reading company employee/ spokesperson WR's oficial carefully vetted comments on EVERY car he wrings out ...each is the " most enjoyable Porsche ever   " in SOME way , whether talking about a GT3 or a Cayenne GTS , etc

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 991 GT3 RS

Very cool.  Photoshop, I assume?

16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Hm. Normal side mirrors. I am not impressed 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

See on worldcarfans 

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 991 GT3 RS

Grant:

Very cool.  Photoshop, I assume?

Yes, I know who created it, it does not comes from any official source.

I remember when sex was safe and motor racing was dangerous...