Crown

In todays Auto Motor und Sport page 18 they write about a sporty 991 na/ no turbo with manual transmission, position between 991S and GT3. They want to copy the sucess of the GT4.....

Being polite is so rare these days that it's often confused with flirting.

Turbo:

In todays Auto Motor und Sport page 18 they write about a sporty 991 na/ no turbo with manual transmission, position between 991S and GT3. They want to copy the sucess of the GT4.....

That'll be a GT3½  then?   

fritz

No it will be the old engine in the new 991 outfit  without rearseats for € 15.000,-- more than a normal 991s

Being polite is so rare these days that it's often confused with flirting.

Turbo:

No it will be the old engine in the new 991 outfit  without rearseats for € 15.000,-- more than a normal 991s

I still think that a GT3 engine equipped 991.2 Carrera RS  is possible, there have been lots of rumors over the past 12 months but this car will eventually cost more than a GT3.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Yes perhaps you are right,  with RS on the back  it will cost € 175.000,--....

Being polite is so rare these days that it's often confused with flirting.

RC:

Turbo:

No it will be the old engine in the new 991 outfit  without rearseats for € 15.000,-- more than a normal 991s

 

I still think that a GT3 engine equipped 991.2 Carrera RS  is possible, there have been lots of rumors over the past 12 months but this car will eventually cost more than a GT3.  

I think the niche is too narrow for such a car, other than a "limited edition" outrageously expensive end-of-life model.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

Turbo:

Yes perhaps you are right,  with RS on the back  it will cost € 175.000,--....

That cheap?  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

bluelines:

RC:

Turbo:

No it will be the old engine in the new 991 outfit  without rearseats for € 15.000,-- more than a normal 991s

 

I still think that a GT3 engine equipped 991.2 Carrera RS  is possible, there have been lots of rumors over the past 12 months but this car will eventually cost more than a GT3.  

I think the niche is too narrow for such a car, other than a "limited edition" outrageously expensive end-of-life model.

 

End-of-life may be closer for the 991 than you think, this is why the Turbo models will be presented soon as well. Also, every rumor I heard indicates a "special edition" model for over 200k. However, I have no accurate information, other than some vague rumors.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

To be a success it would need:

- rear seats

- PDK

- limited edition <500

- no rear wing but some distinguishable design

In this case price is irrelevant...

SciFrog:

To be a success it would need:

- rear seats

- PDK

- limited edition <500

- no rear wing but some distinguishable design

In this case price is irrelevant...

Sounds good to me.   

My guess is: All of that, GT3 engine with 460-490 hp, AWS.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

SciFrog:

To be a success it would need:

- rear seats

- PDK

- limited edition <500

- no rear wing but some distinguishable design

In this case price is irrelevant...

Sounds good to me.   

My guess is: All of that, GT3 engine with 460-490 hp, AWS.

So, basically a GT3 with rear seats and no wing  

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

RC:

bluelines:

RC:

Turbo:

No it will be the old engine in the new 991 outfit  without rearseats for € 15.000,-- more than a normal 991s

 

I still think that a GT3 engine equipped 991.2 Carrera RS  is possible, there have been lots of rumors over the past 12 months but this car will eventually cost more than a GT3.  

I think the niche is too narrow for such a car, other than a "limited edition" outrageously expensive end-of-life model.

 

End-of-life may be closer for the 991 than you think, this is why the Turbo models will be presented soon as well. Also, every rumor I heard indicates a "special edition" model for over 200k. However, I have no accurate information, other than some vague rumors.

Exactly. Like the 997.2 Sport Classic. Too expensive for what it actually is.

The GT3 will still be superior in all aspects to this "Carrera RS", but to a more interesting price. In a sense, it will be the opposite of the GT4  

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

Yes opposite as in limited production also hence the price...

SciFrog:

Yes opposite as in limited production also hence the price...

Yes, a "limited production" parts bin special where the asking price will be far above the sum of its parts. The result of the Exclusive Department getting their hands on a GT3, but it will be "special" 

At this price level I would rather put my money on the real deal, i.e. a GT3 or GT3 RS.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

RC:

SciFrog:

To be a success it would need:

- rear seats

- PDK

- limited edition <500

- no rear wing but some distinguishable design

In this case price is irrelevant...

Sounds good to me.   

My guess is: All of that, GT3 engine with 460-490 hp, AWS.

So, basically a GT3 with rear seats and no wing  

But Manual

Being polite is so rare these days that it's often confused with flirting.

Blue lines you are missing the points: REAR SEATS and NO WING and probably PDK and certainly all the tech gizmos (PDDC AWS)... That's what people want and they don't care of the marginal dynamic improvements of the GT3/4/3RS over what this car could be since they would only be felt on the track which most don't want to go to...

I love manual cars, own two of them but they belong to a different era and have no place on modern cars

Turbo:

bluelines:

RC:

SciFrog:

To be a success it would need:

- rear seats

- PDK

- limited edition <500

- no rear wing but some distinguishable design

In this case price is irrelevant...

Sounds good to me.   

My guess is: All of that, GT3 engine with 460-490 hp, AWS.

So, basically a GT3 with rear seats and no wing  

But Manual

I wouldn't be too sure about this... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

SciFrog:

Blue lines you are missing the points: REAR SEATS and NO WING and probably PDK... That's what people want and they don't care of the marginal dynamic improvements of the GT3/4/3RS over what this car could be since they would only be felt on the track which most don't want to go to...

I love manual cars, own two of them but they belong to a different era and have no place on modern cars...

I always wanted a GT3 with rear seats and without that rear wing but Porsche never built one.

I also know that there are many customers who would love to see such a car and I actually always expected the GTS models to be this kind of car but Porsche never really listened (or they knew that they can make some extra cash by offering a special edition model, I don't know).

Truth be told, I cannot really say that my 991 GTS engine is a disappointment (it revs nicely close to 8000 rpm) but I would have loved the GT3 engine and PDK-S in my car. Did not happen though. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

The GT was originally a parts bin special at an attractive price after a couple of years of a new model, and also a chance to fix some of the minor issues of the original car... It has now turned into a slightly more sporty setup of the original car at a premium... Marketing geniuses once gain but no surprise from a company who can sell a fixed roof car at a premium over its convertible counterpart.

SciFrog:

Blue lines you are missing the points: REAR SEATS and NO WING and probably PDK and certainly all the tech gizmos (PDDC AWS)... That's what people want and they don't care of the marginal dynamic improvements of the GT3/4/3RS over what this car could be since they would only be felt on the track which most don't want to go to...

I love manual cars, own two of them but they belong to a different era and have no place on modern cars

You mean a luxury track car for people who never come near a race track? For people who most likely cannot differ between the Carrera engine and GT3 engine anyway. For people who the GTS was built for   Yes, the Carrera RS makes more and more sense 

Keep the dream alive! I hope Carrera RS comes with optional unicorn horn interior package and panda fur leather seats.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

Turbo:

bluelines:

RC:

SciFrog:

To be a success it would need:

- rear seats

- PDK

- limited edition <500

- no rear wing but some distinguishable design

In this case price is irrelevant...

Sounds good to me.   

My guess is: All of that, GT3 engine with 460-490 hp, AWS.

So, basically a GT3 with rear seats and no wing  

But Manual

Indeed. PDK is out of the question.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

SciFrog:

Blue lines you are missing the points: REAR SEATS and NO WING and probably PDK and certainly all the tech gizmos (PDDC AWS)... That's what people want and they don't care of the marginal dynamic improvements of the GT3/4/3RS over what this car could be since they would only be felt on the track which most don't want to go to...

I love manual cars, own two of them but they belong to a different era and have no place on modern cars

You mean a luxury track car for people who never come near a race track? For people who most likely cannot differ between the Carrera engine and GT3 engine anyway. For people who the GTS was built for   Yes, the Carrera RS makes more and more sense 

Keep the dream alive! I hope Carrera RS comes with optional unicorn horn interior package and panda fur leather seats.

 

 

Yet another condescending post from you but no surprise really. You are yet again totally missing the point.

1) all 911 cars are trackable, some more than others but fact is you can take any of them and have fun at the track. So following your post all 911 are "luxury track cars". 99% of them will never go to the track howe. I don't see how this new car would be at odds in that aspect, it actually makes more sense than the GTx cars that aren't really track cars unless modified anyway. All 911 except for the cup and RSR are ROAD cars.

2) you are implying that people who don't go to the track can't make the difference between a GT3 engine and a 911 regular one. What world do you live in? Must be the world of wannabe track junkie who despise everyone who is not part of it. Have you ever owned a proper track car?​

3) you are implying that the is no room for a car between the GTS and a GT3. The hundreds of posts here prove the opposite.

Panda fur? Can you please continue to make a fool of yourself 

100 of posts from the same 10 people 

If this is the car that all people want then Porsche would have built it a long time ago. We both know this.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

100 of posts from the same 10 people 

If this is the car that all people want then Porsche would have built it a long time ago. We both know this.

All people? Nope. Some are happy with a two seater or a Cayman or both.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Blue, not true, again. Look at the 960. People want it yet it is not coming.

Panamera with 5 seat?

Cayenne turbo with GTS handling?

Infotainment retrofit to modern era cars?

Porsche has a whole history of not delivering what people want although they sometimes listen.

with the advent of easy power and torque, Porsche should increase power/torque of the Cabriolet and Targa models so their 0-100km/h performance and other acceleration measures match their Coupe siblings

SciFrog:

Blue, not true, again. Look at the 960. People want it yet it is not coming.

Panamera with 5 seat?

Cayenne turbo with GTS handling?

Infotainment retrofit to modern era cars?

Porsche has a whole history of not delivering what people want although they sometimes listen.

1st 2 items has to do with brand turf war. If Porsche did the 960, who would buy the Audi R8? If Panamera has 5 seats, then what's the point of the A8/S8? Piech was fiercely protective of his baby's turf, that stand soften up somewhat with the Macan's arrival, and now Audi's guardian is gone. The new Panamera 'should' have that 3 seat rear bench that most people wanted if my sources are correct. The 960, well it just wasn't it's time right now.

Cayenne Turbo has to carry some extra pounds over the GTS, so the handling will never be able to match the lighter car.

Wait about 20 years, then the infotainment system will get refitted, look at the 993s, they JUST got the single DIN navigation system :)

SciFrog:

Blue, not true, again. Look at the 960. People want it yet it is not coming.

Panamera with 5 seat?

Cayenne turbo with GTS handling?

Infotainment retrofit to modern era cars?

Porsche has a whole history of not delivering what people want although they sometimes listen.

This is a discussion well timed with my test drive, 2 days ago, of a local 991 GT3 for sale.  No surprises what we thought about power, handling, and sound.... but we don't have room for a mistress car - our 911 has to be a daily driver, fun car, sporty road trips - all the above.  And there the GT3 falls short.  As my wife put it "why can't Porsche do a 911 with this amazing engine and transmission, most of this suspension, but in a package that is not a depressing black synthetic interior, and without such a track-focused front design that you need to worry about scraping it instead of having fun?"   

I thought about her question a bit, and said "because then it would be a Ferrari".  Which led me to the thought that there is no reason Porsche could not "do a Ferrari" - they have all the constituent parts.  And like Scifrog, I think there is a market for that.  

2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

4trac:

 

This is a discussion well timed with my test drive, 2 days ago, of a local 991 GT3 for sale.  No surprises what we thought about power, handling, and sound.... but we don't have room for a mistress car - our 911 has to be a daily driver, fun car, sporty road trips - all the above.  And there the GT3 falls short.  As my wife put it "why can't Porsche do a 911 with this amazing engine and transmission, most of this suspension, but in a package that is not a depressing black synthetic interior, and without such a track-focused front design that you need to worry about scraping it instead of having fun?"   

I thought about her question a bit, and said "because then it would be a Ferrari".  Which led me to the thought that there is no reason Porsche could not "do a Ferrari" - they have all the constituent parts.  And like Scifrog, I think there is a market for that.  

 

Hmm, did you forget to tell her that the previous owner went cheap and didn't tick the all leather interior box?

--

Whoopsy:

Hmm, did you forget to tell her that the previous owner went cheap and didn't tick the all leather interior box?

Well, of the what, 15-18 GT3s I recently saw on the used market in Canada, I'm not sure I saw any that did not have the alcantara - it is simply the default expectation for any GT class Porsche - if I was a dealer that's the way I would order it too.  And nothing wrong with that at all, for people wanting exactly what the GT models offer - no fripperies, no "luxe", just hard performance and grippy alcantara to keep you safe at 1.9 g's cornering force.  

The discussion above though, was around the fact that there are people that do value the GT3 drivetrain, for example, and would be willing to pay extra to have it, but who may not completely fit into the track junkie owner species.  Porsche simply does not allow that - to the (Motorsports division perhaps) there is only one category of potential owner who values responsive, high revving engines and crisp transmissions.   Put another way, imagine if Ferrari said "oh, you want fancy Daytona seats - sorry that means you get a de-tuned V12 in your FF that will only rev to 6200 rpm"....   

2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S