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    Problems with Porsche

    As much as I like and have owned and still own several Porsches I see some major problems:

    - The 911 was always an icon. It was unique amongst SL's and BMW Coupe's etc. It was directly compared to Ferrari and Lamborghini as being the German alternative.

    - Today there are so many alternatives and the 911 does not stand out anymore as it should. Pls dont start the true sportscar arguing, as only an absolute minority track their cars.

    - When the 993 turbo came out with 408 hp it was a shock to the system. When I saw them ont the road might heart would stop beating. Unfortunately I was in my early twenties and could not affor one. It screamed hp and it had the performance. Other 'sportscars' had half that power !!

    -What goes into a sportscar and what doesn't ? All the options we miss in our Porsche's we reason that it's a sportscar etc. and doesn't really need, too heavy etc...
    How much heavier would it be for the PCM player to play MP3's ? How heavy is a bluetooth kit ? Why is the key so clumsy and cheap ? No spare tire ? Thats a joke. On these high performance cars tires are more likely to blow out than to loose air due to a puncture. They do not even offer it as an option (unless you buy 996 items and put them in current generation cars) Even the Cayenne Turbo S comes without spare unless I put that ugly full spare on the back.

    - What bothers me is that all these cut- downs are cost and not performance related. Porsche AG is run like a business since 996 and boxter generation. Before it was driven by soul and enthusiasm. I am sad to have to admit that Ferrari is driven by a business model with passion soul and enthusiasm in the forefront.
    They build the best they can and then do the math and set a selling price.

    - Porsche does not listen to its customers anymore. (997TT not the magic 500 hp) They listen to marketing strategy.

    - The Cayenne is a magnificient car, ugly, but magnificient. I love to drive mine. But also this does not have bluetooth integration, Early PCM not MP3 compatible etc. Now I am sure here nobody wanted to save weight.

    - A good friend of mine has an SL55 and it feels so much more solid than my 997S ( owned coupe and now have cabrio)
    The interior feels much more upmarket. No cheap plastics and alu coloured plastics. What looks alu is alu in the sl.

    - Porsche really has to focus more on being there with the top three or else they will have a detrimental effect on their image and direct result to sales figures.

    - Aston Martin did exactly the same mistake with their V8 Vantage. I actually thought of buying one but it just does not deliver in the performance category. Its the most beautifull car on the market currently and it looses due to business models.

    - A few years back, I would have not considered any other car as being an alternative to the 911. Today there are many and I really have to resort to my childhood dreams for not going with any of the many current alternatives.

    - Anybody have the same feeling ?

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Welcome to the club my friend....

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Agreed, I abandoned Ferrari for Porsche three years ago, had a 997S, Turbo and Turbo S. I also had a 993 in the late 90's. After bad treatment from the Porsche network (no emotion at all, only $$$$) and frankly being underwhelmed by the product, now back with Ferrari again. Ferrari show that a company can have profits and a good business but also retain enthusiasm and passion, something Porsche doesnt have, doesnt understand or create any more. I am happy spending money with Ferrari, it is a pleasure. With Porsche, it is a painful experience and no joy involved at all. A shame.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Nah, I wouldn't say I disagree with your views, but try to put them in a wider perspectve. If Porsche AG was not run as a business starting from the Boxster and the 996 there would probably not be a Porsche AG today. Also, show me any automobile article or test saying the 997 is not an icon and is not part of the 911 heritage. It is still THE sportscar which all other sportscars are measured against. Even Porsche's other vehicles (Cayman) are measured against it. Porsche AG's business model is working perfectly fine and it will continue to work fine. Which other sportscar manufacturer are making the same revenue as Porsche AG?

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    "The 911 was always an icon. It was unique amongst SL's and BMW Coupe's etc. It was directly compared to Ferrari and Lamborghini as being the German alternative."

    still is

    - "Today there are so many alternatives and the 911 does not stand out anymore as it should. Pls dont start the true sportscar arguing, as only an absolute minority track their cars."

    more choices? that's competition and that's good for us all

    - "When the 993 turbo came out with 408 hp it was a shock to the system. When I saw them ont the road might heart would stop beating. Unfortunately I was in my early twenties and could not affor one. It screamed hp and it had the performance. Other 'sportscars' had half that power !!"

    half the power of a 993tt? Lambo's F-cars and Corvettes don't count?

    -"What goes into a sportscar and what doesn't ? All the options we miss in our Porsche's we reason that it's a sportscar etc. and doesn't really need, too heavy etc...
    How much heavier would it be for the PCM player to play MP3's ? How heavy is a bluetooth kit ? Why is the key so clumsy and cheap ? No spare tire ? Thats a joke. On these high performance cars tires are more likely to blow out than to loose air due to a puncture. They do not even offer it as an option (unless you buy 996 items and put them in current generation cars) Even the Cayenne Turbo S comes without spare unless I put that ugly full spare on the back."

    what do, keys, bluetooth and spare tires have to do with your original rant - about the purity of Porsche as a sportcar manufacturer?

    - "What bothers me is that all these cut- downs are cost and not performance related. Porsche AG is run like a business since 996 and boxter generation. Before it was driven by soul and enthusiasm. I am sad to have to admit that Ferrari is driven by a business model with passion soul and enthusiasm in the forefront.
    They build the best they can and then do the math and set a selling price."

    F cars have a different business model - one that I can't stomach. Build a limited number of few cars and let the dealers screw their customers as much as possible. My last experience trying to buy a Ferrari consisted of being told that I had to buy at least two used Ferrari's before they would consider putting me on a 2 year waiting list - and only for a coupe - spiders reserved for special clients. Puhleeze!

    - "Porsche does not listen to its customers anymore. (997TT not the magic 500 hp) They listen to marketing strategy."

    There's only one readily available 500 hp sports car that weighs less than a 997tt and that's the Z06. All the other 500 hp cars are heavier - look at power to weight, not just power. I actually think Porsche does listen quite well to their customers when it comes to changes to their sports cars - there are numerous examples.

    - "The Cayenne is a magnificient car, ugly, but magnificient. I love to drive mine. But also this does not have bluetooth integration, Early PCM not MP3 compatible etc. Now I am sure here nobody wanted to save weight."

    It is true that Porsche electronics are behind their much larger competitors in the area of communication. BTW, are Ferrari's bluetooth compatible and have MP3 capability?

    - "A good friend of mine has an SL55 and it feels so much more solid than my 997S ( owned coupe and now have cabrio)
    The interior feels much more upmarket. No cheap plastics and alu coloured plastics. What looks alu is alu in the sl."

    In the US, Pontiac used to call that solid sound more "ground hugging weight". SL's are heavy pigs but the funny thing about your quote is that most people think that Mercedes quality is in the [censored].

    - "Porsche really has to focus more on being there with the top three or else they will have a detrimental effect on their image and direct result to sales figures."

    Have you seen Porsche sales figures lately - they're through the roof

    - "Aston Martin did exactly the same mistake with their V8 Vantage. I actually thought of buying one but it just does not deliver in the performance category. Its the most beautifull car on the market currently and it looses due to business models."

    More likely they made a mistake in product planning because as a small manufacturer, their product cycles are too long. Maybe when they started designing the car, they did not anticipate the German horsepower wars.

    - "A few years back, I would have not considered any other car as being an alternative to the 911. Today there are many and I really have to resort to my childhood dreams for not going with any of the many current alternatives."

    If one wants a superb, highly reliable, high performance sports car, that can be driven everyday in all weather conditions there is still only one choice."

    One thing that you didn't mention (that I have commented on in other posts) is that I am hoping that the new 997tt feels less like a high speed supercar "appliance" and has more soul and passion than the 996tt. To be seen

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    I made a similar post regarding my feelings a few weeks ago, when the specs of the 997 Turbo were final (check the archives, it created quite a stirr of emotions and lots of replies).
    BUT: I'm willing to give Porsche the chance of the doubt. I'm getting a 997 Turbo end of June and I'm waiting for those reviews in various car magazines.
    And if the 997 Turbo isn't up to my expectations, you'll be one of the first persons to hear about it.

    Just give Porsche a break, maybe we underestimate their engineering capability a little bit.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Ver interesting views here.
    Don't get me wron I do still love porsche's !
    I am expecting a Cayenne Turbo delivery in May and have also already placed an order for 997 Turbo, expected delivery in September. They certainly ae great cars. However, I truly feel they lack soul. They are not what they were anymore. They need to reposition themselves more upmarket.

    Keep the Cayman and Boxster as enty level models. For God's sake even do the four door, but please keep the 911 the icon it is. No more cost cutting and cheap parts pls. The interior of the 997 is dreadful compared to the competition.

    Another point I simply cannot understand is why on earth its taking them so long for DSG to be available.Other companies have had it for ages. I am sure it has to do with R&D cost and Porsche AG stock performance.Wouldn't the Porsche Carrera GT have justified the development cost for a DSG tranny ? I thought it was a disgrace to offer a Carrera GT with manual. It should have been in there and then trickled down to the 911. I also think that the GT3 should also have a sequenial on offer next to manual. Manual track cars do not exist anymore.

    Something needs to be done !

    On another note, as Cayenne board seems almost dead...where are the spyshots and rumours on the facelift ? Half my mind is occupied with daily life obligations, and the other have with release date of the facelift. Especially cause I traded up form an S to take delivery of Cayenne Turbo in May. Tricked out with the whole nitty gritty and cost me in excess of 120k (without tax)...talk about love for porsche...or downright crazy !!

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I made a similar post regarding my feelings a few weeks ago, when the specs of the 997 Turbo were final (check the archives, it created quite a stirr of emotions and lots of replies).
    BUT: I'm willing to give Porsche the chance of the doubt. I'm getting a 997 Turbo end of June and I'm waiting for those reviews in various car magazines.
    And if the 997 Turbo isn't up to my expectations, you'll be one of the first persons to hear about it.

    Just give Porsche a break, maybe we underestimate their engineering capability a little bit.



    Actually RC, people such as myself may over-estimate Porsche's engineering ability. In fact, I truly believe that Porsche can produce the top car during each model introduction/update, but are holding back due to "marketing concerns". It is this business model I have been complaining about.

    The base Carrera should've had the power of the Carrera S.
    Forget about selling a powerkit unless the cars come with just as much power as the competition to begin with. (no one should have to pay extra to get the cars in line with others in its price range)
    997TT should've had a bit more power, but it seems they are holding out just to introduce the 854th 911 model, the 997TTS.
    Holding back the Cayman S so they wouldn't hurt 911 sales is a travesty to the automobile enthusiast. Better they not introduce it at all if they were so worried about hurting 911 sales.

    Please Porsche... cut the number of models down. It is starting to get ridiculous.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I made a similar post regarding my feelings a few weeks ago, when the specs of the 997 Turbo were final (check the archives, it created quite a stirr of emotions and lots of replies).
    BUT: I'm willing to give Porsche the chance of the doubt. I'm getting a 997 Turbo end of June and I'm waiting for those reviews in various car magazines.
    And if the 997 Turbo isn't up to my expectations, you'll be one of the first persons to hear about it.

    Just give Porsche a break, maybe we underestimate their engineering capability a little bit.



    Christian you know as well as everyone on this board that the 997TT is going to have excellent performance. Its numbers will be better than the 430 (they have had two years to get it right) and will be as good if not better than the Z06 and Gallardo.

    What is eating at many present Porsche owners is the concept of "is that all there is?" Yes it is a good performing car and has been the standard of sport cars for years. BUT, there really is nothing special or distinctive about the car. It looks or resembles just about ever Porsche ever built. it just they are building many more with many more models. When you drive a Porsche it is like experiencing ground hog day.

    Also, today the company caters to a much wider audience to sell to. Thus when you buy a Porsche, it is not a special occasion because you are buying along with the masses. In the past you could visit a dealership and look at one model or maybe two. Today, a visit to the dealership is like visiting a Ford /Chevy dealership. Several models in different price ranges.

    This is not the stuff legends are made of nor something to make you unique.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Guys..you are all right..

    but Mr Wiedeking whant to arrive to 100.000 units..so..all road are right to arrive at 100.000 car sold for year..

    sure Porsche is going to be like a more sporty version of Audi..with a lot of restyling and a lot of models,with less passion and more commercial ideas..

    I love Porsche..and i don't know why..is like a football team for a football fan,there is only one team in the heart..and my team is Porsche..
    i love all sports car,but Porsche for me is number one...maybe for his story,for the 911 face..i don't know..but i love it...

    to buy my 997 Turbo i must do a lot of work and a lot of sacrifice,and is two years that is old out my 996 TT to save more possible money to buy the 997TT without problems..
    but now,from the 997 TT i need a lot of thing...and passion for me is really important..

    I think Ferrari is the best for a sports car lover...but for me is too much exclusive specially for where i live and for my age..

    If one day i come to the conclusion that Porsche is too much Audi and only a few Ferrari...(and i think you understand me)..well i will put my sacrifice on another brand....that belive me is not easy..


    So..for now the only thing i really need is that the 997 TT will be THE KING,like in the past the others 991 Turbo were..

    ciaoo

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    I agree with most of you... Will new 997 Turbo be the king of sportcars? Short answer is NO! Why? Competition is getting better and better every day. 997 Turbo is in my opinion end of current platform development. Next 998(or what ever the code name will be) will be something completely different(rear engine of course), at least I hope so...
    But, as RC said lets wait for first offical test and our own personal first drives.
    If 997 Turbo is not up to the expectation it will be a hard thing for Porsche...
    Somebody mentioned too many 997 derivation and I agree with that. But, current things are the way they are...
    Do not forget that competition will introduce several interesting rivals soon and some of them will be very good cars... New Audi R8 will offer better performance then 997/997S for same money(more performance, power , etc. Gallardo based platform means that R8 can not be bad car!).
    But, Porsche will never be like Ferrari(and I love the difference between them) or Lamborghini.
    I will stay loyal costumer of Porsche unless they steer the company and their products in wrong direction...

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    I agree with most of you... Will new 997 Turbo be the king of sportcars? Short answer is NO! Why? Competition is getting better and better every day. 997 Turbo is in my opinion end of current platform development. Next 998(or what ever the code name will be) will be something completely different(rear engine of course), at least I hope so...
    But, as RC said lets wait for first offical test and our own personal first drives.
    If 997 Turbo is not up to the expectation it will be a hard thing for Porsche...
    Somebody mentioned too many 997 derivation and I agree with that. But, current things are the way they are...
    Do not forget that competition will introduce several interesting rivals soon and some of them will be very good cars... New Audi R8 will offer better performance then 997/997S for same money(more performance, power , etc. Gallardo based platform means that R8 can not be bad car!).
    But, Porsche will never be like Ferrari(and I love the difference between them) or Lamborghini.
    I will stay loyal costumer of Porsche unless they steer the company and their products in wrong direction...



    End of current platform development? Even the 997TT is limited in power output and chassis setup for marketing purposes as general production vehicles usually are. In fact, the only reason the 997TT would be "the end" would be on the basis of marketing and not engineering factors. Indeed, your "hope" that the 911 becomes rear-engined exposes your true motivation for "predicting" the end of the 911 in its current setup.

    To me, the 911 NA and TT could in 998 guise could improve on the 997 simply by losing 500 pounds with advances in material use alone.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    SoCAl: I could not agree more with you. Does Ferrari hold back on the F430 not to outclass the 599 ? No, both have their own souls and reason for being. The Cayman should have been exploited to its full potential and the result shoul've been that the 997 would have been improved even further. The poerkits etc. should be for those who want the last bit in performance to max out on the competition. I also do not get the point of introducing a 997 Carrera and a 997 Carrera S.....its become like buying an BMW 320 or 323. Ok for mass market cars, but certainly out of place for a 911.
    I always thought Porsche was the best mix of engineering- exclusivity- usability- price.
    Now that they will not be that exclusive anymore te 997 Turbo might very well be my last Porsche. Aston Martin, here I come...

    Porsche had another major advantage RELIABILITY ! Ferraris and Lambos as well as Astons were notorious for problems.

    Ferrari and Lambo are certainly now up there with the best in quality and reliability. I would rather be caught dead than be seen in a Ferrari. I always wanted to own one till I owned a 360 Spider F1. Too flashy. Shifted it after a couple of weeks.

    But I am already keeping my eyes wide open on the competition....!!!

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    I personally don't doubt Porsche's ultimate engineering capability-after all part of their business engineers cars for other manufacturers. When the engineers are given free reign to deliver something special by the marketeers, I expect they are up there with the best. Does anyone doubt that Porsche engineers have run a monster 997TT with well over 500hp?

    We talk as though Porsche is a mass market car. It isn't for most people and in most countries they are rare. 100,000 cars of which 30,000 are 911's does not make them common even if the shape is familiar. Most Porsche cost less than half the price of the cheapest Ferrari yet they stand comparison. Occasionally Porsche has built something really special like the CGT. Ok it had 'only' 605 hp. Does it have the wow factor of a Ferrari? I think most would accept it does. Was it the king of sports cars? Well it was certainly up there with the best.

    No, mostly, Porsche fits in a market segment between up market mass produced cars like BMW Audi Mercedes etc and niche Sports manufactuers like Ferrari. It is more exclusive than a BMW and less exclusive than a Ferrari. Porsches fill that gap and frankly no-one else does. You get a decent percentage of Ferrari performance for a percentage of the price. Sometimes more performance. And daily driver convenience. And running costs easily comparable with a mass market car.

    If you are looking for wow factor like a Ferrari well a yellow or black GT2 or GT3 with a healthy does of options and PSE will have kids pointing and leaning out of their dad's car window-they know what it is-just like a Ferrari. Special. For normal people yes and enough to cause jealousy -witness the vandalism documented on this site-And finally for us fortunate demanding owners? Perhaps not enough-but you can always buy a Ferrari....if you can afford it.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    What? your credibility dropped to zero in my book when you are concerned about missing bluetooth. Give me a break! If you want a gadget/luxo box get something else - maybe a Lexus.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Porsche is a iconic brand that tries to market the love for its products across many price points and to many different customer profiles.

    They simply cant please every performance buyer and every status seeker out there. But they do a pretty good job with
    what they have to offer.

    Many of their standard vehicles have "issues" but if you really want a hard core sports car they can sell you a great one - the GT3.

    Im not too big of a fan of the rest of their products. The Cayenne is too small inside for its weight, the Boxster looks old and bulbous - almost frumpy, the standard 997 is too appliance like with a interior beneath its price and the coming Panamera seems like it will be just another competitor for the dowdy looking AMG Mercedes CLS.

    Their trucks and cars sell in enough quantities to be very profitable. Im more concerned about Porsches vision for the future. The current range is pretty boring after so many years.

    I think they should do something startling, daring and fresh to re-energize the companys name and show some design and technology leadership.Porsches industry and self adulation for their marketing and logistics strategies has become a old song. Product innovation is needed now more than ever if they want to get past the 987/987/951 cycle.

    Its time for something new from them.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    I think the GT3 fits the bill you are describing

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Also, today the company caters to a much wider audience to sell to. Thus when you buy a Porsche, it is not a special occasion because you are buying along with the masses. In the past you could visit a dealership and look at one model or maybe two. Today, a visit to the dealership is like visiting a Ford /Chevy dealership. Several models in different price ranges.

    This is not the stuff legends are made of nor something to make you unique.



    Interesting and valid points, however these views are a certain lens of critique and merit judgement.

    Within the anals of critique, there are many lenses or perspectives to draw from.
    For example, New Criticism (whether it be literary or artistic etc...) implies that the viewer critiques the object (artificat) upon its own merits, not upon a heritage/lineage/knowledge of the creator (author/artist, in this case auto manufacturer).

    Are we judging the 997 Turbo or for that matter, any other Porsche, upon its own shoulders or credentials? When you get into a 997 C2S and complain about its aesthetics or its power, is it because of the sensory comprehension you get from the car or is it an external factor?

    I'm not trying to imply that we should ignore other factors, such as lineage and relativity (to competitors). The sheer role of money pretty much makes an exclusive "new criticism" of any car obsolete and foolish.

    However, if this is all we care about-- if our choice of automobiles becomes a game of competition, image and relativitiy, then there is very little merit in our own personal assertions. You might as well have a magazine tell you what to buy.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Hurst I think you meant annals of critique and not "anals."

    The 997 does have some issues in layout, design, trim and standard equipment levels. A blind ostrich on crack could see that. Also the 'stair step' pricing tactics for options and models seems insulting, arrogant and past its time.

    They are close to that part of the model cycle and its sales curve where perceived customer value becomes as important as product performance, no matter what the price point is.

    If you look at the market cap for the segments Porsche sell in, they could actually be selling more cars than they are now.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Hurst your too rational. Cars are all about emotion. What generates emotion differs from person to person. However, if the object remains primarily the same but with enhancements, after time the emotional attachment begins to wane.

    So it is with Porsche. It was an icon to many of us when we were young. It had a special place in the automotive world and people coveted the car. However time has a way of dimming the luster of an object unless the object is modernized and refreshed.

    I believe many Porschephiles have lost the strong emotional draw and are trying to find reasons to purchase the car. Thus the undue emphasis on hp, performance and racing. They want something special and extraordinary because that is how they remember the car.

    Porsche is not marketing to the Porschephiles. It wants the general auto buyer and competes in that expanded market segment. Up until now, very successfully.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    My feeling is that with the 911, the car looks now pretty much the same as it did over 30 years ago. Whether it is a C2, C4, Targa, Turbo, or a 993 996 997, or what ever, they all look the same. Sure Porsche makes a few cosmetic changes every now and then, but that is really not a big deal. And because of this, there is not a great deal of passion. Look at the changes in all of the competition over the years, whether it be from Italy, England or the states. Change creates the feeling of both evolution and revolution, and this creates passion. With Porsche, everything has just become blah. The exteriors, the interiors, and even the sound of the engine...it has all become stale.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    I like the fact 911's resemble their predecessors in the way they do.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    It's hard to compare the fit and finish, as well as quality of materials of the SL55 to the 997. Two very different cars for two different uses. At 2+ tons the SL55 is a pig, but a pig with Pirelli P zeros on its feet. A lot of what I thought about its handeling went out the window the day I hammered one up and down a slalom course. Mountains of torque and juice drive, combined with that orgasmic exhaust note make it a hoot to drive. I also has an understated look to it, the soul is there, just not in your face. The interior is what you would expect for a lux Grand Touring car. Supreme comfort and a ride that is smooth and corners flat, hard to ask for more. Mods are easy to come by also. Mine is going in for Kleeman stage 2 for a total of 593 hp, or about $7 for each hp added. Not too bad for the first hundred hp. It is what it is and it is not a sports car, but a sporty car, and damn fast too. At 160 the car rides smooth and planted, and quiet to.
    I have been back and forth about the Gallardo but could just not pull the trigger. Too much bling? I had not even planned on looking at the Porsche until I saw a new Black 911 with an aerokit. That led me to the GT3 and I called a friend with a GT2, & GT3 on order. That led me to the 997 turbo. I went to the local dealer on Thursday last week and saw a pic, read the specs. Bingo, just the perfect compliment to the SL55. Classic confident looks and more power and ability than I could ever hope to handle. The L and F cars have more soul, but far to much LOOK AT ME that I don't want. The dealer got my dough this Monday.



    Sorry. Very long for my third post.


    Re: Problems with Porsche

    give porsche a chance not long ago porsche was losing business, they used stratigy to get back on their feet and they preduced very nice line of cars, I love all of them starting boxter to the CGT this is very impressive and i think they will even do better . the new turbo is a shock i was very impressed with it what if the TruboS comes out? and GT2 ? what is better than this ? if you want it to look like a ferrari it will never do .

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Never too long a post when you are educating us on the sl55, thanks

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    My feeling is that with the 911, the car looks now pretty much the same as it did over 30 years ago. Whether it is a C2, C4, Targa, Turbo, or a 993 996 997, or what ever, they all look the same. Sure Porsche makes a few cosmetic changes every now and then, but that is really not a big deal. And because of this, there is not a great deal of passion. Look at the changes in all of the competition over the years, whether it be from Italy, England or the states. Change creates the feeling of both evolution and revolution, and this creates passion. With Porsche, everything has just become blah. The exteriors, the interiors, and even the sound of the engine...it has all become stale.



    I do believe that by your definition of passion...the C4, C5 and C6 would not qualify either....the vette had its last "major" design change in 1983...don't they all basically have the same shape and style?

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    I also like the fact the 911 designs are evolutions, not revolutions. Design revoltion these days usually means bling.

    Another great point that was brought up here also, I hope 911 turbo future is in lighter cars with moderate increases of power, in a word: efficiency (brought by technological advances). If you want a faster car just through more power, get a Z06, Porsche will never be able to compete pricewise in that direction, and they know it. That's why they don't consider the Z06 a real contender, as long as they can roughly match performance. What they bring for twice the price is better quality and safety.

    About the "step pricing" strategy, I also wish there was no "S" version. Porsche should bring the best they can at some point of time, period. Then replace with the new package when ready. But they are making so much more money the way they do it now, it is genius. It just leaves in the dust the people who want the best car available without having to get a new one every two years.

    About emotions, it is true an F or G car will bring you more emotion. But the P car will give you more than a Mercedes, they just fit in the middle. People tend to take the 997TT for the ultimate sporty 911. It isn't, it is the GT3. The 997TT is a safe daily driver who performs like the best sports car out there, without too much bling.

    Would you let your wife take your kids a rainy day in your super sports car? I would in the 997TT, this has no price.

    About other cars, competition is good, it will push Porsche to go further faster. I would especially watch AM, they missed the mark on performance, but if Porsche stalls a bit, next time they won't do the same mistake. I see them as the biggest threat for P, as they bring more exclusivity (for a higher price though).

    Lastly about getting excited about the new 997TT, Porsche will only produce 4,000 a year, this is just a little more than the F430... And Nick, I don't see how anymone would just be just "happy" and not excited about getting delivery of a $100,000+ car

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    With regards to Porsche's styling of the 911 being basically unchanged since the 1960s, the quote in my signature sums up my thoughts nicely.

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Quote:
    DamienL said:
    With regards to Porsche's styling of the 911 being basically unchanged since the 1960s, the quote in my signature sums up my thoughts nicely.



    Damien, regarding the quote "to improve is hard". Or is it just being lazy?

    Re: Problems with Porsche

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    DamienL said:
    With regards to Porsche's styling of the 911 being basically unchanged since the 1960s, the quote in my signature sums up my thoughts nicely.



    Damien, regarding the quote "to improve is hard". Or is it just being lazy?



    ...actually Nick... "to improve is unprofitable"

     
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