Not surprised. We have been saying Winterkorn is done.
He was paid handsomely as CEO of a company, but getting fired or letting go at any given moment in time for something that happened but which he may or may not be responsible for is what comes with the big salary.
Sep 23, 2015 3:43:37 PM
Some info on why these tests were conducted in the US:
When the International Council on Clean Transportation began to look into discrepancies in the emissions of several Volkswagen diesel vehicles in early 2014, it was with the sincerest of intentions. Noting that the U.S. had stricter and more rigorously enforced emissions laws that Volkswagen’s TDI-equipped cars routinely passed without problems, the ICCT figured performing some tests on U.S. soil would provide them with a good control model. Enlisting the help of West Virginia University’s Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines, and Emissions (CAFEE) to assist with the real-world testing, it seemed the data would soon reveal the root of the inconsistencies. But when the results gathered via real-world testing were compared with the compliant numbers generated in the lab by the California Air Resources Board (CARB), it was clear something wasn’t kosher in dieselburg.
This may be just the tip of the iceberg......I would not be surprised if this is a common practice among all car manufacturers...in other words modifying the ECU in order to meet emission regulations while undergoing formal testing and then reverting to a "normal" run mode.
Does anyone actually pay attention to emission figures when they buy a car?
Some look for best gas mileage, some goes for high performance, I have yet to meet or even notice someone who buys a car because it emit less.
Well this time VW cheated the government, but in principle, is this episode any different than us talking about cars' performance when tested by magazines and writers on track vs the real cars we buy at dealerships? Different alignments than shipping cars, different tires, lighter options, etc?
Sep 23, 2015 4:21:40 PM
Whoopsy:Does anyone actually pay attention to emission figures when they buy a car?
Some look for best gas mileage, some goes for high performance, I have yet to meet or even notice someone who buys a car because it emit less.
Well this time VW cheated the government, but in principle, is this episode any different than us talking about cars' performance when tested by magazines and writers on track vs the real cars we buy at dealerships? Different alignments than shipping cars, different tires, lighter options, etc?
Everyone who buys an electric car?
RC:"What is a little bit outrageous are the many comments in certain political forums in Germany: Apparently many people see some sort of US plot to ruin VW and the German industry, which is of course ridiculous. Also, many Germans seem to be surprised that some 2.0 l Diesel engines cannot fulfill US EPA regulations but some monster 7 l Diesel or 6 l petrol engines do. They do not understand the whole thing, which leads to many speculations and even angry comments like "the US with it's many V8 engines on the road shouldn't really accuse VW of anything..." but many people don't really understand that most Diesel engines are directly more hazardous to the health than even V8 petrol engines."
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)
I think this cheating scandal happen because the Audi and VW engines could not meet the California Air Resources Board requirements. For several years, the diesel engine from Audi and VW were not available in California and then all of a sudden, they met California's stricter requirements.
The California emissions standard has always been stricter than the EPA's requirement. And before Whoopsy makes his comment, I remember how bad smog was in Los Angeles growing up where your eyes would constantly water and burn from the smog. We use to have tons of smog alert days, now that is history.
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Porsche owner since 1975.
Whoopsy:Does anyone actually pay attention to emission figures when they buy a car?
There is significant overlap, in the US at least, between the VW "clean diesel" demographic and the traditional Birkenstock demographic, so yes, people were buying these cars because they believed they were good for the environment, and they were marketed as such.
Edit: And, of course, there is this:
The U.S. government also has reason to feel duped: Volkswagen's 'clean diesel' TDI engines earned a $1,300 federal tax credit for people who purchased a diesel Jetta sedan or wagon back in 2009, the first year affected by the recall.
The start of articles like this do not bode well for the industry:
I guess we'll have to wait and see how widespread this will become, but I think the days of trusting automakers may be over, so they should make sure they have their ducks in a row.
JimFlat6:Winterkorn is just a patsy. Piech had to have okd this. He is such a gearhead and known for pushing the envelope that it defies credulity that he would not have known.
One or both of them most likely knew about it and most likely signed off on it. (I still think the recent power struggle's timing was not a coincidence.) We'll find out as the criminal investigation unfolds; I don't think they'll have any trouble getting lower level engineers to roll over on their bosses.
Winterkorn has done the right thing for the good of the company, today, though, innocent or guilty.
Sep 23, 2015 5:03:58 PM
JimFlat6:Soon will come the canned Hitler videos lampooning VWs plan for world diesel domination. And you know, they will be right.
AMG motors are likely suspects also.
Aaaaaand, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKef1JFpiCA
Sep 23, 2015 5:27:45 PM
JoeRockhead:JimFlat6:Soon will come the canned Hitler videos lampooning VWs plan for world diesel domination. And you know, they will be right.
AMG motors are likely suspects also.
Aaaaaand, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKef1JFpiCA
Joe, that video is really funny
Sep 23, 2015 5:31:34 PM
JoeRockhead:Everyone who buys an electric car?
That's more about cutting gas bills, monthly out of pocket expenses operating a electric car is vastly cheaper than pumping gas every few hundred miles.
But then again saving gas is indirectly tied to emissions. But no one talks about emissions, they are use saving gas as the main talking point.
The plot thickens. The evening news in Sweden just reported that the Dept. of Transport in Sweden has tested other cars than VW and got similar result as EPA. BMW and Volvo among others...
2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM
bluelines:The plot thickens. The evening news in Sweden just reported that the Dept. of Transport in Sweden has tested other cars than VW and got similar result as EPA. BMW and Volvo among others...
I would be very surprised if VW were the only manufacturer cheating the rules!
Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive
i could not imagine that VW develop an engine that does NOT meet the required standards and then becomes modified to meet the test regulations without the top execs knowing and passing it.
and if they did not know they do not belong at the top anyway.
dreamcar:bluelines:The plot thickens. The evening news in Sweden just reported that the Dept. of Transport in Sweden has tested other cars than VW and got similar result as EPA. BMW and Volvo among others...
I would be very surprised if VW were the only manufacturer cheating the rules!
If everybody bends the rules it means the rules are wrong. Change the rules instead
Probably all manufacturers are using the same software from the same source.
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"Form follows function"
What it could mean, is that diesel just is not a viable fuel for the type of engines automakers want to put in cars.
I doubt very much they are using the same software. If they were, VW would have instantly fingered the producer of the software as to blame.
apias:What it could mean, is that diesel just is not a viable fuel for the type of engines automakers want to put in cars.
I doubt very much they are using the same software. If they were, VW would have instantly fingered the producer of the software as to blame.
These VW cars use Bosch engine management software. Off the shelf from Bosch, parameterized by VW to detect emission tests. No use to fingerpoint Bosch since the software simply does what VW has configured it to do...
2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM
AJ:
Very interesting but troubling times. I sometimes have the notion that this current trend of turbocharged motors is the tail wagging the dog. Turbocharging was quite popular in the 80s then disappeared as motors had to become more efficient. Now a decade or two later, almost all vehicles are being turbocharged regardless of class. Cheap power, but cleaner and more fuel efficient? Maybe for the test cycle, but in the real world?
I have some friends who whose prev Audis had gas V6s but opted for more EPA " fuel efficient " 2L gasoline turbos when time came to upgrade but who got the same or worse real DD mileage , unless cars were driven with so light a throttle that they endangered themselves or others in the flow of traffic.
Part of the emissions " official drive cycle " game all the manufacturers have figured out and played with to " move the metal " and of which the end consumer was/is inconsequential
Owners of these cars whose performwnce will be emasculated by installing new ECU programming will demand VW buy backs globally ...no different than everyone here with a theoretical 991.2 3l turbo if Porsche had to do the same a year after you owned it due to emissions hnky panky and the result was 100 fewer horsepower ...you would own basically a lump of coal in terms of resale market !