Crown

Gladstone:

I saw on the configurator  a graphite blue and crayon interior and was wondering what other color would that go with besides a graphite blue exterior.     

The colors are so bad in the configurator now for the 991.2 models that it's impossible to know what would go with what. One would expect that they would, over time, improve it till it became almost photo realistic. Instead, they seem to have chosen to go the opposite route and make it cartoonish. I don't know what they were thinking.

The rear looks better in reality...

bluelines:

bobr:

bluelines:

RC:

Wonderbar:

3.  960 project dead for now, maybe in 10 years, but a member of Porsche Board told me personally that it was still his passionate dream.  Just not the time now.

This is very very bad news because Porsche may actually lose me as a customer along the way. 

You will simply get the R8 instead and remain within the VW group. Not an issue for Porsche in the bigger picture of things  I am with Whoopsy on this one, the R8 is the reason we don't see the 960. After having witnessed the new R8 close up in action on Nürburgring I think this car fill the space well. The 960 would get tough internal competition from the R8.

If the 960 is dead for now...What is the mid-engine GT car Porsche planning to  build for the 2017 racing season? Are we looking at a new variant of the Cayman as the replacement for the 991 RSR/

There have indeed been such rumours floating around...

I asked Futch directly if the rumor of the mid-engine GTE car was true and he confirmed it. Went as far as to say he had seen a picture of it (which looked amazing) but that he was not in a position to say anymore.

bluelines:

RC:

Wonderbar:

3.  960 project dead for now, maybe in 10 years, but a member of Porsche Board told me personally that it was still his passionate dream.  Just not the time now.

This is very very bad news because Porsche may actually lose me as a customer along the way. 

You will simply get the R8 instead and remain within the VW group. Not an issue for Porsche in the bigger picture of things  I am with Whoopsy on this one, the R8 is the reason we don't see the 960. After having witnessed the new R8 close up in action on Nürburgring I think this car fill the space well. The 960 would get tough internal competition from the R8.

Wrong! The (used!) R8 was supposed to be some sort of ("cheap") weekend toy but if I were to get myself an "exotic", it wouldn't be the R8 but very likely a Huracan or a McLaren 650S (considering their interesting lease/buying offers).

I would not get a new R8 but I could see myself in a used (new model) R8 along the way.

I think Porsche is missing a huge opportunity here, unless they (finally) make the next gen Turbo S the way it is supposed to be...a benchmark. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

bluelines:

Hmm, actually I don't like that view at all. Lots of busy details, edges and surfaces, and too many different materials. It does not look as harmonious as the 991.1

True but it is more eye catching (which may be important for certain markets). Looks a bit aftermarket to me but maybe this was the intention all along... 

I kind of get a feeling that the 991.1 is going to become a classic at some point, can't help it. The fact that on paper, the 991.2 is also 10 hp less powerful than the 991.1 GTS models, may actually give a boost to the 991.1 GTS used car market. Not so sure about the non-GTS models though but I think that the 991.1 is going to become the "new 997" on the used car market and hopefully with higher prices.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Besides the NA engine I don't see anything desirable on the 991.1 - unlike what I've heard from some Dealers that demand of 997 - even Turbo - has increased as the Cockpit feel is much more 911 than the GT like 991. I believe that Prices will only be rather stable on GT3/RS models when it Comes to the 991 range.

RC:

I kind of get a feeling that the 991.1 is going to become a classic at some point, can't help it. The fact that on paper, the 991.2 is also 10 hp less powerful than the 991.1 GTS models, may actually give a boost to the 991.1 GTS used car market. Not so sure about the non-GTS models though but I think that the 991.1 is going to become the "new 997" on the used car market and hopefully with higher prices.  

Personally, I didn't like the 991.1 as much as the 997.2 in terms of styling. But the 991.2 seems the best looking liquid-cooled 911 subject to live scrutiny.

As to the 991.2 S and the 991.1 GTS comparison a deficit of 10PS will prove nothing on the road, given the 500 Nm at 1700-5000 rpm of the new car.

"Form follows function"

RC:

I think Porsche is missing a huge opportunity here, unless they (finally) make the next gen Turbo S the way it is supposed to be...a benchmark. 

Even if the 992 turbo would be quicker, more efficient than the current model and also as most or all of its competitors (very likely) the character of the car is still unlikely to change enough to make it emotionally attractive enough for you, I feel... Don't you agree 

Guys any news on the upcoming 991 R or GT3 R? thanks ;)

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - Waiting 991 GT3 RS

MKSGR:

RC:

I think Porsche is missing a huge opportunity here, unless they (finally) make the next gen Turbo S the way it is supposed to be...a benchmark. 

Even if the 992 turbo would be quicker, more efficient than the current model and also as most or all of its competitors (very likely) the character of the car is still unlikely to change enough to make it emotionally attractive enough for you, I feel... Don't you agree 

Porsche will change a lot with the next 992 generation, especially the interior is going to get a complete overhaul and a very nice one. I know that some Porsche employees at the IAA are telling people right now that the 911 won't change much with the next generation (what do you expect, they want to sell the current 991.2 ) but I can tell you for sure that it will surprise many (in a positive way, I think).

The exhaust sound is something I cannot really overlook on any car, it is an integral part of the fun and whoever says this isn't true, lies to himself. I had to learn this the hard way (money). Of course there can be cars which are so fast that they may actually compensate for a bad exhaust sound, like the 650S for example. Yes, I would get one (was very tempted with their last lease offer) but only because the performance is so overwhelming that it is worth it. This could be the case with the next 911 Turbo generation as well.

Track times are important (because they show the potential and refinement of the car's setup) but not as important to me anymore as before. I do not really care anymore if a Ferrari is 5 seconds faster on the Nordschleife than a Porsche or vice versa. Nowadays, in the hands of the same driver, there isn't much difference between the cars, believe it or not. Only a pro driver can squeeze out a couple of seconds more...on a track with is 20 km long.  Yes, many modern sports cars are that good in the hand of experienced but non-pro drivers.

So while I still feel a strong connection to Porsche, I also started to get the feeling lately that I am not getting my money's worth performance and quality from Porsche. 162k EUR for a well optioned C4 GTS Cab is just insane in my opinion. I paid less for my 997 Turbo with PCCB a couple of years ago. 

That said, I will choose my next sports car very wisely and also based on the price tag, quality and what I will get for the money. Don't take me wrong: I do not expect Porsche to sell their cars at a bargain price, like Nissan does with the GT R (in comparison with the Turbo S) but at least I expect some decent value for the money. A 430 hp car for 162k EUR (with options but you can spec the car up to 180k and more) just doesn't sound right in my book and the new 911 is even more expensive now.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

I cannot see why people pay some 13.000 EUR extra (+12%!!) to get a real sportscar like the 911 in cabrio form. Someone, could save this money and reduce his budget or spend the money on some sporting extras on his Coupe.

For me Cabrio = roadster or Touring car like a convertible M-B, for example.

"Form follows function"

I see your point of view and agree in many things. The problem is that a car can never be fast enough to prevent you from getting used to this kind of performance. I.e. driving pleasure needs to come from other areas primarily. Knowing you don't like older cars (that do offer this kind of pleasure and feeling for the "special" for me) makes things more complicated...

reginos:

I cannot see why people pay some 13.000 EUR extra (+12%!!) to get a real sportscar like the 911 in cabrio form. Someone, could save this money and reduce his budget or spend the money on some sporting extras on his Coupe.

For me Cabrio = roadster or Touring car like a convertible M-B, for example.

 

Getting a cabrio can navigate you around the problem Christian described above. Modern sports cars are mostly boring. Getting a cabrio shifts your focus from speed alone to other things. For me this is one way to resolve the problem  The other solution are older cars that feel special despite being "slow" compared to today's standards.

reginos:

I cannot see why people pay some 13.000 EUR extra (+12%!!) to get a real sportscar like the 911 in cabrio form. Someone, could save this money and reduce his budget or spend the money on some sporting extras on his Coupe.

For me Cabrio = roadster or Touring car like a convertible M-B, for example.

 

You clearly have never enjoyed a 911 Cab. In my opinion, the 911 experience is the most intensive in a Cab. The 911 is no pure track car, this is what the GT3 models are for. So the cabriolet is actually the best method to enjoy the true 911 spirit. The sound, the wind, the surroundings, all your senses get tickled, I just love it, especially when it is warm outside.

Actually, Porsche built a 901 prototype, so he wanted a cabriolet and it was part of his vision but the car wasn't what he expected (no wonder, modern "stiffness" techniques and materials were unknown by that time), so he went with the Targa project instead. Also remember the 356 Cab? A cabriolet was always part of Porsche's 911 heritage and history.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

MKSGR:

reginos:

I cannot see why people pay some 13.000 EUR extra (+12%!!) to get a real sportscar like the 911 in cabrio form. Someone, could save this money and reduce his budget or spend the money on some sporting extras on his Coupe.

For me Cabrio = roadster or Touring car like a convertible M-B, for example.

 

Getting a cabrio can navigate you around the problem Christian described above. Modern sports cars are mostly boring. Getting a cabrio shifts your focus from speed alone to other things. For me this is one way to resolve the problem  The other solution are older cars that feel special despite being "slow" compared to today's standards.

Very well said. A cabriolet improves the experience. If I ever get a Turbo/S again, it will be very likely a Cab.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

reginos:

I cannot see why people pay some 13.000 EUR extra (+12%!!) to get a real sportscar like the 911 in cabrio form. Someone, could save this money and reduce his budget or spend the money on some sporting extras on his Coupe.

For me Cabrio = roadster or Touring car like a convertible M-B, for example.

 

It´s like having three cars in one, Cabrio, Coupe (with hardtop) and soft-top up with classic timeless design . There´s nothing like cruising with top down in a hot night near the sea, you get to hear the pops on the PSE, the waves smashing the beach, the sea smell, the cool air on your face, In this cenario you can fun at 50kph which is great. Still you have almost 400hp to play with whenever you want to go buzerc on the mountain roads with the engine eco thrue out the mountains. Ok , chassi it´s not has stiff as a coupe, steering fell might be less pricese but still you get lots of fun and we are not professional drivers who can shave 0,2tens in a certain road by driving the coupe on our spirited driving.

Anyway I´m suspicious, ever since 1998 there´s a Porsche Cab in my garage 

--

J.Seven

You are very romantic ..but I understand what you mean. But the extra money could be spent on a more completely specified coupe in my way of thinking.

The Boxster makes more sense being less expensive than the closed version.

"Form follows function"

ISUK:

 

Hmm, strikingly similar to a combo alravailable on a Clio!

--

Current - Aston V12 Vantage, Morning Frost White, Buckets, Manual

On Order - Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, PCCB, Full Buckets

OT, does anyone heard more about the 911R or CS (whatever it will be named)?

is it still happening with the rumoured 4.0L NA engine and manual?

my friend's dealer is taking deposit and I want to know if it's just another parts-bin special or a "Real" 911R.

BMW 1 M + C63 (gone).   997.2 GT3

BjoernB:

Besides the NA engine I don't see anything desirable on the 991.1 - unlike what I've heard from some Dealers that demand of 997 - even Turbo - has increased as the Cockpit feel is much more 911 than the GT like 991. I believe that Prices will only be rather stable on GT3/RS models when it Comes to the 991 range.

+1

There are far too many 991.1 Carreras built, all models including the GTS.

I do find it more clean and classic than the 991.2 though, which as mentioned before I find too busy in the rear (edges, creases, materials, air inlets/outlets, etc). Maybe that changes once I see it in real life.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

reginos:

You are very romantic ..but I understand what you mean. But the extra money could be spent on a more completely specified coupe in my way of thinking.

The Boxster makes more sense being less expensive than the closed version.

You can be very happy  being romantic on those circuntances ..life´s good.

Yes I know Boxster makes sence, I had one too back on 1998, and for pure driving fun, it was better than 996 and 997 for my kind of driving, mine had 300hp without traction control  what a blast it was. But I woud never go back to a Boxster after having the ownership experience with 911.

J.Seven

Given my ownership experience with 991 I'm not sure I'd go back to Porsche!

991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog

BjoernB:

Besides the NA engine I don't see anything desirable on the 991.1 - unlike what I've heard from some Dealers that demand of 997 - even Turbo - has increased as the Cockpit feel is much more 911 than the GT like 991. I believe that Prices will only be rather stable on GT3/RS models when it Comes to the 991 range.

I'd agree 100%. I had several drives in the 991 whilst we owned our 997/2 and came away very underwhelmed. We were loaned a 991/S for a few days and I was bored with it before we returned it. Exactly as you say the 991 is more GT than sports car in feel, 997/2 was more sporty, more mechanical in feel.

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive

dreamcar:

BjoernB:

Besides the NA engine I don't see anything desirable on the 991.1 - unlike what I've heard from some Dealers that demand of 997 - even Turbo - has increased as the Cockpit feel is much more 911 than the GT like 991. I believe that Prices will only be rather stable on GT3/RS models when it Comes to the 991 range.

I'd agree 100%. I had several drives in the 991 whilst we owned our 997/2 and came away very underwhelmed. We were loaned a 991/S for a few days and I was bored with it before we returned it. Exactly as you say the 991 is more GT than sports car in feel, 997/2 was more sporty, more mechanical in feel.

Have you tried the GTS? My C4 GTS Cab with PDCC feels worlds sportier than my 997 C2 GTS Cab and the 997 GTS was already a notch sportier than the 997 CS (had the 997.1 CS with PCCB, actually a pre-production car ). PDCC makes a huge difference in drive feel, so does not choosing power steering plus (many have it and aren't even aware of it ).

There is only a single thing I do not like on my C4 GTS Cab: Power. For the Autobahn, this car is certainly the wrong toy (a M5 or E63 would make me cry...) but luckily, I mainly use it in the city and a lot on country roads. There is no more fun than driving the C4 GTS Cab on a sunny day through those curvy country roads over here, amazing feel.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

reginos:

I cannot see why people pay some 13.000 EUR extra (+12%!!) to get a real sportscar like the 911 in cabrio form. Someone, could save this money and reduce his budget or spend the money on some sporting extras on his Coupe.

For me Cabrio = roadster or Touring car like a convertible M-B, for example.

 

I cannot see why someone would buy a coupe 911 or a Cayman when for a fraction of the price (or cheaper with the Boxster) of the car it can be convertible. The ONLY fixed roof cars that make sense are the GT3/4. The regular 911 are ROAD cars, being convertible only enhances the driving pleasure.

dreamcar:

I'd agree 100%. I had several drives in the 991 whilst we owned our 997/2 and came away very underwhelmed. We were loaned a 991/S for a few days and I was bored with it before we returned it. Exactly as you say the 991 is more GT than sports car in feel, 997/2 was more sporty, more mechanical in feel.

In my experience, this is largely due to the electric steering in the 991 vs. hydraulic in 997.

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

RC:

 

I think Porsche is missing a huge opportunity here, unless they (finally) make the next gen Turbo S the way it is supposed to be...a benchmark. 

I think it is too late for that. The competition is now really good and there isn't anymore room for 911 turbo to be the benchmark. How can they compete with carbon tub rear mid engine 2 seater cars with a 4WD rear engine 4 seater? The problem is Porsche is charging "benchmark" prices for sub benchmark product... They are shooting themselves in the foot.

Grant:

dreamcar:

I'd agree 100%. I had several drives in the 991 whilst we owned our 997/2 and came away very underwhelmed. We were loaned a 991/S for a few days and I was bored with it before we returned it. Exactly as you say the 991 is more GT than sports car in feel, 997/2 was more sporty, more mechanical in feel.

In my experience, this is largely due to the electric steering in the 991 vs. hydraulic in 997.

The electric steering in the 991 has been greatly improved, this is common knowledge. Same goes to PDK. So yes, a 991.1 from the first model year will not feel the same as a 991.1 from the last one or even the GTS. Try it, you'd be surprised.

In no way does any 997, incl. the GTS models, feels sportier or more agile than the current 991 models but I cannot exclude that especially the first and maybe the second 991 model year feel different. The 991 GTS is a whole different story, just ask Carlos.  Add PDCC and the 991 feels as sporty as it gets for such a car.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

 

I kind of get a feeling that the 991.1 is going to become a classic at some point, can't help it. The fact that on paper, the 991.2 is also 10 hp less powerful than the 991.1 GTS models, may actually give a boost to the 991.1 GTS used car market. Not so sure about the non-GTS models though but I think that the 991.1 is going to become the "new 997" on the used car market and hopefully with higher prices.  

Too many GTS were produced, they will fare better than non GTS but will follow a normal depreciation curve. 10-15 years down the road maybe they will perk up again but it is really far down the road. Meanwhile the 991.2 is already liked a lot vs the non turbo 991.1 (same happened at Ferrari) and the 992 might be radically better inside and maybe electric powertrain. Plus new cars will have CarPlay and no doubt they will be much faster.

I do not think that a 991.1 GTS will keep its new price value (or more), similar to many GT3 or RS models but I think it will keep a better value than the non-GTS models. I don't think we are going to see the strong devaluation we've seen from the first 991 models and some 997 models. It really depends how well the new 991.2 will be received with customers.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)