Crown

GoHardGT3RS:

Both in different ways!

The GT4 feels like a big go-kart with its middle-engine balance, you can throw it into the nice S turns of Bilster Berg and the balance is very neutral. The gearbox is far better on the GT4, short and a precise shifts, probably the best manual in the world. The exhaust noise is also better on the GT4!

The GT3 had 20 km/H more at the end of the long straight (230 vs. 210 for the GT4), typical 911 balance where you need to stay on the brakes on the turn-in to get the car turning

All in all, the GT4 is the best fun for the price IMO.

--

 

Cayman GT4 / Awaiting 991 GT3 RS / Gone: 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8, 997.2 GT3, Lotus Exige S, 964 Turbo 3.3

 

For the price there is no comparison . GT4 is the best . But is it as rewarding as the GT3 in the longer run ? 

When I tried the GT4 on the track, I did find it to be lots of fun, but pretty easy to handle it . I was not doing very hard as this was Blueline's car, so maybe when you take it to the limits it changes ??  But I was wondering of after a while it becomes not '' too easy'' ?  On open roads, I am sure the GT4 never gets too easy and is probably the best toy . 

I must also say, that I am a fan of the rear layout engine and never been a mid engine fan.

 997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery early Sept .

Whoopsy:

This one is fantastic !!!!   

Nice comparison of the tires .  We can see why the Dunlop is better on the wet . 

 997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery early Sept .

So... you say that there was a 918, with the doors open and the key in the ignition...?!?
No way in hell I would be able to restrain myself I think! :-)))

Gorgeous pictures again Atomic! Thanks so much for posting Whoopsy, this is true wallpaper material!

Gnil:

 

Nice comparison of the tires .  We can see why the Dunlop is better on the wet . 

There's also been a couple of back to back tests on track and they were marginally quicker in the dry, too..

Wear seems to be their main downside.

2015 911 GT3, 2011 987S, 1964 Type 1

One of the Best semi slick tires is the Pirelli trofeo R superior to Michelin and dunlop

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - Waiting 991 GT3 RS

Gnil:

Whoopsy:

 

This one is fantastic !!!!   

Nice comparison of the tires .  We can see why the Dunlop is better on the wet . 

i agree, very sexy, if I may put it like that ..

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October.

DaveGordon:

Gnil:

 

Nice comparison of the tires .  We can see why the Dunlop is better on the wet . 

There's also been a couple of back to back tests on track and they were marginally quicker in the dry, too..

Wear seems to be their main downside.

Hmm... Dunlop is according to Sport Auto test 2km/h slower on wet handling track then Michelin. On the dry track Dunlop is little bit faster with higher wear.

Also profile depth is when new on Dunlops in average 3mm less then on Michelins (tires in 991 GT3 dimensions).

Whoopsy:

I really should put this in the 918 thread but oh well​

Not necessary, this is rennteam, did you forget?

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Nick, fantastic pictures. Atomic is a genius with the camera.

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

Rossi:

Whoopsy:

I really should put this in the 918 thread but oh well​

Not necessary, this is rennteam, did you forget?

And I am the biggest offender! 

Gnil:

When I tried the GT4 on the track, I did find it to be lots of fun, but pretty easy to handle it . I was not doing very hard as this was Blueline's car, so maybe when you take it to the limits it changes ??  But I was wondering of after a while it becomes not '' too easy'' ?  On open roads, I am sure the GT4 never gets too easy and is probably the best toy . 

I must also say, that I am a fan of the rear layout engine and never been a mid engine fan.

Gnil - I think this fundamental distinction will remain.  For those who have spent years learning to properly drive a 911 on track (i.e. when faced with a life/death moment, one's immediate instinct is to press the throttle instead of the brake), I think the GT4 may not give the same sort of payoff.

The GT4's character is more "playful" than "rewarding" or "challenging" like an older GT3.

But one thing that a GT4 does have going for it more than a new GT3 is its smaller size and weight.  Its more like an older 911 in this regard, as the 991 chassis has grown quite a bit.

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

KresoF1:

 

Also profile depth is when new on Dunlops in average 3mm less then on Michelins (tires in 991 GT3 dimensions).

I think you might have reversed them. Brand new the Cup2s are 7.2/32" while the Dunlops are at 10/32"

Grant:

Gnil - I think this fundamental distinction will remain.  For those who have spent years learning to properly drive a 911 on track (i.e. when faced with a life/death moment, one's immediate instinct is to press the throttle instead of the brake), I think the GT4 may not give the same sort of payoff.

The GT4's character is more "playful" than "rewarding" or "challenging" like an older GT3.

But one thing that a GT4 does have going for it more than a new GT3 is its smaller size and weight.  Its more like an older 911 in this regard, as the 991 chassis has grown quite a bit.

I had two of those intense moments  And yes, my instinct was to do what is abnormal, press the throttle and not slam on the breaks ! Makes it even scarier !!! 

The 911 has become too big, I agree . But maybe the challenge now, as generally it got so much easier with the new chassis and all the electronic aids ,  is to handle this big car fast and properly 

 997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery early Sept .

Gnil:

The 911 has become too big, I agree . But maybe the challenge now, as generally it got so much easier with the new chassis and all the electronic aids ,  is to handle this big car fast and properly 

No argument - it will be a blast!

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

If we are talking about size, the RS gains an inch in width and 3 inches in length over my 997 Turbo S, but it is 2.5" narrower and another 4 inches shorter than my 918. Interestingly, the 918 is basically the same width as my F12 and only longer by an inch.

Interesting - the design of the 918 makes it appear more compact than that...

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Gnil:

Grant:

Gnil - I think this fundamental distinction will remain.  For those who have spent years learning to properly drive a 911 on track (i.e. when faced with a life/death moment, one's immediate instinct is to press the throttle instead of the brake), I think the GT4 may not give the same sort of payoff.

The GT4's character is more "playful" than "rewarding" or "challenging" like an older GT3.

But one thing that a GT4 does have going for it more than a new GT3 is its smaller size and weight.  Its more like an older 911 in this regard, as the 991 chassis has grown quite a bit.

I had two of those intense moments  And yes, my instinct was to do what is abnormal, press the throttle and not slam on the breaks ! Makes it even scarier !!! 

The 911 has become too big, I agree . But maybe the challenge now, as generally it got so much easier with the new chassis and all the electronic aids ,  is to handle this big car fast and properly 

Yes, big, heavy and electronic aids sound like a recipe for fun  

I think this evolution of the GT3 was inevitable and I don't see a change of direction in the future. The GT4 will sadly follow in it's footsteps. More power, more weight, more aids. Because magazine tests and lap times rule. It will be interesting to hear what people say about the RS once the initial excitement has calmed down. Is it the most rewarding and challenging GT3 out there or will people start to look at the 997 RS again for this experience...

Personally, my GT4 is getting more fun by the day and the gap between it and the 991 C4S steadily growing. The latter is slowly turning into a snoozefest, which I could never ever have imagined a year ago. Relative to the GT4 it feels too big, too heavy and have too many electronic aids. While it is the ultimate everyday all-year-round sports car, something is missing... something which the GT4 offers in abundance. As you might have guessed, someone has started to scan the car ads  

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

Personally, my GT4 is getting more fun by the day...

I love to hear this!  

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Ive looked at the numbers. The GT4 is only a couple of centimeters shorter than my GT3. With similar options there is less than 70kg weight difference (my GT3 has clubsport option and weights 1455kg with fuel). That about the difference of a full to empty tank if you are using the 90L tank option in the GT3.

Just pointing this out. Many people believe the GT4 is considerably smaller than the GT3. It is not. There are a couple of guys who have now got both on Rennlist who post pictures of teh two side by side and suprisingly from a side profile they look barely different. From a rear width perspective the GT3 is indeed wider.

It a very interesting thread over there because people who own BOTH cars give their opinion. Here I see opinions of folk who have investment in one brand camp or the other. I will not comment till my GT4 arrives and I can own both together but at this time the most "legitimate" comments I hear IMO on the GT4 are from people who have both in their garage and can compare on a daily basis. In this regards its a very interesting read and not a landslide to the GT4 as you may suspect!

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2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd RS spec, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)

macca993:

Ive looked at the numbers. The GT4 is only a couple of centimeters shorter than my GT3.

4.24 inches per Porsche website.  This converts to 10.8 cm.  198 pounds (90kg) lighter for the GT4 too.

                                                                GT3 on Left and GT4 on Right below:

Here is the UK (Metric) version from Porsche UK (now GT4 on Left and GT3 on right):

If I could make a Frankenstein monster by combining the GT3 and GT4, I would keep the GT3 engine, the GT4 overall dimensions, the GT4 gearbox (with ratios to match the 9k motor), and the GT3 rear suspension and engine placement.

Now where do I go to order this?
--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant. 4 inches isnt much is it (spread your finder apart 10cm to get an idea).

For example The Cayman  GT4 is 17cm longer than my 993!

 My 993 is 10cm longer than a 1972 911. 

So you could say the difference between the 991 GT3 & GT4 is far less than you might imagine.

Infact the Cayman GT4 being precicely the same length as a 2004 996.2 GT3 may also suprise some. 

The 90kg might be Porsches official data but comparing the SportAuto GT4 measurements (I think it was clubsport option) with the GT3 the difference is less than 90kg. It would appear the GT4 may be published without A/.C & Radio whgich is not a realistic configuration IMO. I very much doubt my non 003 option GT4 with LWBS and a handful of options including keeping A/C & radio will come in below 1375kg and my GT3 has already been weighed 1455kg with 003 option.

Im looking forward to more dual ownership feedback. It will be interesting to see how the cars are viewed 12+ months through ownership experience.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd RS spec, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)

I also find it interesting we no longer hear from owners or journalists that the 991 GT3RS is "too fast for the road", or that they "still miss the manual gearbox".

It seems it doesnt take long for people to adapt aye! Probably too fast I think. The GT3 has conditioned the press. I hope they dont forget that many owners would still like the choice of a more "traditional" transmission in the future. 

My Porsche sales guy said something interesting when I left his office a few days ago. They had a new 2016 GT3 sitting there waiting for its owner. I questioned him about it and he said it was one of the last to leave the production line and they are now no longer being made etc. As I walked down the showroom he almost smiled and said it would be the last N/A 911 He got my attention but I had a cab awaiting to take me to teh airport for an international flight. I wonder if he was winding me up, Id be suprised if he knew anything on teh inside and I suspect he just tried it on for shock factor but it does beg the question...

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2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd RS spec, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)

macca993:

Grant. 4 inches isnt much is it (spread your finder apart 10cm to get an idea).

I agree that it's not a huge difference. But when considering a 3-dimension solid object, adding a bit of length (and width in this case) does contribute to the volume in a meaningful way.  It may not be super dramatic, but it is noticeable and can be seen and felt.

The 991 grew only 2.2 inches in overall length over the 997 and I find that difference immediately apparent.  This difference is nearly double that.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

macca993:

As I walked down the showroom he almost smiled and said it would be the last N/A 911... Id be suprised if he knew anything on teh inside and I suspect he just tried it on for shock factor but it does beg the question...

Maybe he read it here on RT 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

macca993:

Im looking forward to more dual ownership feedback. It will be interesting to see how the cars are viewed 12+ months through ownership experience.

You are in for a real treat with both these cars in the garage 

When is your GT4 due?

--

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

Grant:

If I could make a Frankenstein monster by combining the GT3 and GT4, I would keep the GT3 engine, the GT4 overall dimensions, the GT4 gearbox (with ratios to match the 9k motor), and the GT3 rear suspension and engine placement.

If the use is for, more or less, track only. For the road I happily keep the current engine. The low end torque is far more useful than rev'ing to 9k IMHO.

Nor do I want the engine placed in the back 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

macca993:

Grant. 4 inches isnt much is it (spread your finder apart 10cm to get an idea).

For example The Cayman  GT4 is 17cm longer than my 993!

 My 993 is 10cm longer than a 1972 911. 

So you could say the difference between the 991 GT3 & GT4 is far less than you might imagine.

Infact the Cayman GT4 being precicely the same length as a 2004 996.2 GT3 may also suprise some. 

Too many numbers. Too much theory  

What matters is how the cars feel in real life IMHO. I think you will find that your GT4 feels more 996 GT3 than 991 GT3...

I am very curious about your feedback as dual owner. Gnil is the only person I know who drove both back to back on the track and I found his feedback very interesting with respect to how each car feels.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

Had a chance to meet up with a GT4 owner for a short quick photoshoot. 

BTS: 981 Cayman GT4 by Jason Tang, on Flickr

981 Cayman GT4 by Jason Tang, on Flickr

981 Cayman GT4 by Jason Tang, on Flickr

981 Cayman GT4 by Jason Tang, on Flickr

981 Cayman GT4 by Jason Tang, on Flickr

981 Cayman GT4 by Jason Tang, on Flickr

981 Cayman GT4 by Jason Tang, on Flickr

981 Cayman GT4 by Jason Tang, on Flickr

Scuderia Hanseat is starting on Monday .

These are the guys I know of from Rennteam coming there:

Kobalt
Bluelines
Gnil
DaveGordon
twoTurbos

I'll be in car 1005 (White 2007 GT3 CS) and my wife in 1004, a Yellow Cayman S 2009.

Funny enough my car looks much bigger then the Cayman but to my surprise when we put them in the garage next to each other it was not much that differed between them,

Great pics Jason!  The first one looks like it is straight out of a Porsche ad! Love the depth of the last one too. 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM