Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 991 GT3 RS - Page1

Jul 2, 2015 12:49:34 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: pmarkow

Re: 991 GT3 RS

pmarkow:
Ferrari press release: .....Downforce increases to 325 kg at 250 km/h, thanks in part to active aerodynamic devices which reduce drag whilst simultaneously generating downforce when required.

some AP interview: GT3 RS 991 has more than doubled the downforce (relative the the GT3 RS 997, with 350kg at 300kph.

and since downforce grows quadratically with velocity .....go figure.

peter

Reading that sentence, I suspect it was written by a marketing person and the English translation of it was not checked by an engineer.
I'd be inclined to wait for the Sport Auto test results for the two cars measured under the same conditions, to rule out apple/orange comparisons. Smiley

--

fritz

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Jul 2, 2015 1:01:47 PM

apias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: United States , United States; Posts: 2608, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2013; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Sport Auto runs wind tunnel tests to measure downforce?

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Jul 2, 2015 1:03:33 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT3 RS

fritz:
pmarkow:
Ferrari press release: .....Downforce increases to 325 kg at 250 km/h, thanks in part to active aerodynamic devices which reduce drag whilst simultaneously generating downforce when required.

some AP interview: GT3 RS 991 has more than doubled the downforce (relative the the GT3 RS 997, with 350kg at 300kph.

and since downforce grows quadratically with velocity .....go figure.

peter

Reading that sentence, I suspect it was written by a marketing person and the English translation of it was not checked by an engineer.
I'd be inclined to wait for the Sport Auto test results for the two cars measured under the same conditions, to rule out apple/orange comparisons.

Isn't the problem of the SportAuto measurement that they measure during standstill, whereas Ferrari's numbers refer to downforce while the car is moving at the actual speed? Smiley

Or at least something similar to this, I'm sure we already discussed the discrepancy of Ferrari and SA numbers.

--

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Jul 2, 2015 1:30:44 PM

pmarkow: Rennteam Pro; Loc: cambridge , United Kingdom; Posts: 2277, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 28, 2014; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT3 RS

fritz:
pmarkow:
Ferrari press release: .....Downforce increases to 325 kg at 250 km/h, thanks in part to active aerodynamic devices which reduce drag whilst simultaneously generating downforce when required.

some AP interview: GT3 RS 991 has more than doubled the downforce (relative the the GT3 RS 997, with 350kg at 300kph.

and since downforce grows quadratically with velocity .....go figure.

peter

Reading that sentence, I suspect it was written by a marketing person and the English translation of it was not checked by an engineer.
I'd be inclined to wait for the Sport Auto test results for the two cars measured under the same conditions, to rule out apple/orange comparisons.

maybe. but given that AP declared that groundforce increases linearly with velocity (a first year engineering student should know that it is quadrattic) i do not have more trust in porsche marketing than in ferrari marketing.

peter

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Jul 2, 2015 1:32:52 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Rossi:
fritz:
pmarkow:
Ferrari press release: .....Downforce increases to 325 kg at 250 km/h, thanks in part to active aerodynamic devices which reduce drag whilst simultaneously generating downforce when required.

some AP interview: GT3 RS 991 has more than doubled the downforce (relative the the GT3 RS 997, with 350kg at 300kph.

and since downforce grows quadratically with velocity .....go figure.

peter

Reading that sentence, I suspect it was written by a marketing person and the English translation of it was not checked by an engineer.
I'd be inclined to wait for the Sport Auto test results for the two cars measured under the same conditions, to rule out apple/orange comparisons.

Isn't the problem of the SportAuto measurement that they measure during standstill, whereas Ferrari's numbers refer to downforce while the car is moving at the actual speed?

Or at least something similar to this, I'm sure we already discussed the discrepancy of Ferrari and SA numbers.

The SA Supertest measures aerodynamic drag and downforce at 200km/h in a wind tunnel. As long as its always the same wind tunnel. the results are directly comparable.

--

fritz

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Jul 2, 2015 2:32:06 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: pmarkow

Re: 991 GT3 RS

pmarkow:
i do not have more trust in porsche marketing than in ferrari marketing.

peter

Porsche's stated aero numbers have usually been spot on with the SA findings over years......

--

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.0 bar

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Jul 2, 2015 7:55:46 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: TB993tt

Jul 2, 2015 7:59:11 PM

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Netherlands; Posts: 8054, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Wow, that's a very nice pic! Thanks Kreso!

--

Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

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Jul 2, 2015 8:18:15 PM

pmarkow: Rennteam Pro; Loc: cambridge , United Kingdom; Posts: 2277, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 28, 2014; Reply to: BjoernB

Re: 991 GT3 RS

i do not see why a modern high tech approach to aerodynamics can't beat the old school spoiler stuff. and btw, what is really so special about the GT3RS aerodynamics, except porsche rhetorics? the front spoiler is GT3 100%, the wheel arch grills can be found already in my 458 italia and then there is the rear spoiler, no real diffuser of course. they lifted the rear to create a diffuser type effect, but that is makeshift and the main reason why the car looks awkward. all in all, it is a 991 body-kit with add-ons.

on the contrary ferrari works on aereo integrating it into the design and not as add-ons. you don't believe the 488 downforce numbers, fine, but be careful betting on it:::)))

peter

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Jul 2, 2015 8:23:04 PM

pmarkow: Rennteam Pro; Loc: cambridge , United Kingdom; Posts: 2277, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 28, 2014; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT3 RS

fritz:
pmarkow:
Ferrari press release: .....Downforce increases to 325 kg at 250 km/h, thanks in part to active aerodynamic devices which reduce drag whilst simultaneously generating downforce when required.

some AP interview: GT3 RS 991 has more than doubled the downforce (relative the the GT3 RS 997, with 350kg at 300kph.

and since downforce grows quadratically with velocity .....go figure.

peter

Reading that sentence, I suspect it was written by a marketing person and the English translation of it was not checked by an engineer.
I'd be inclined to wait for the Sport Auto test results for the two cars measured under the same conditions, to rule out apple/orange comparisons.

AP does interviews in english without need of an interpreter. surely everybody can make a mistake but as a scientist (or engineer) there are certain basics that you get right even if someone wakes you up at 3am and ask you about them.

different for marketing experts of course. and i like AP in the later role, he usually does a good job selling his products.

peter

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Jul 2, 2015 10:06:57 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: Joost

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Joost:
Wow, that's a very nice pic! Thanks Kreso!

+1 very sharp.

--

Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport

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Jul 2, 2015 10:57:40 PM

Adam2S: Senior; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 19, 2007; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: 991 GT3 RS

KresoF1:

This is all I can see now Smiley

(Sorry Nick) Smiley

--

Current - Aston V12 Vantage, Morning Frost White, Buckets, Manual

On Order - Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, LWB

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Jul 2, 2015 11:08:06 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT3 RS

fritz:
nberry:
Adam, when did the UK legalize marijuana?

I am very familiar with the Ricer term. Through the years it has morph into describing a car that appears to have add ons to improve performance. That is what ricers did in the past. The RS wing looks like an add on to improve performance. Thus, it looks like a ricer. Caprice?

A GT3 has a wing but it is part of the design of the car just as the TT wing is.

Nick, how many other languages beside Italian do you not speak?

Apparently I speak understandable Italian since you identified the word and its meaning. However, in the future I will drop the "r" for those that can hold a dime between their butt cheeks.

--

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

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Jul 2, 2015 11:19:26 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Just for my benefit, could you please add an "s" as well? In the appropriate place, of course. Smiley Smiley

PS: Were you thinking of the Italian island or the Californian lingerie model when you made that Freudian slip? Smiley
--

fritz

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Jul 3, 2015 6:51:42 AM

BjoernB: Rennteam Master; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 4100, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 19, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: 991 GT3 RS

fritz:
Rossi:
fritz:
pmarkow:
Ferrari press release: .....Downforce increases to 325 kg at 250 km/h, thanks in part to active aerodynamic devices which reduce drag whilst simultaneously generating downforce when required.

some AP interview: GT3 RS 991 has more than doubled the downforce (relative the the GT3 RS 997, with 350kg at 300kph.

and since downforce grows quadratically with velocity .....go figure.

peter

Reading that sentence, I suspect it was written by a marketing person and the English translation of it was not checked by an engineer.
I'd be inclined to wait for the Sport Auto test results for the two cars measured under the same conditions, to rule out apple/orange comparisons.

Isn't the problem of the SportAuto measurement that they measure during standstill, whereas Ferrari's numbers refer to downforce while the car is moving at the actual speed?

Or at least something similar to this, I'm sure we already discussed the discrepancy of Ferrari and SA numbers.

The SA Supertest measures aerodynamic drag and downforce at 200km/h in a wind tunnel. As long as its always the same wind tunnel. the results are directly comparable.

Funny enough I just read yesterday in SA that Ferrari Claims 205 KGs downforce at 200 km/h vs 137 KGs from the 458 - but clearly nowhere near the RS.....

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Jul 3, 2015 6:57:07 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Adam2S

Re: 991 GT3 RS

KresoF1:

This is all I can see now Smiley

(Sorry Nick) Smiley

More like salmon rice Smiley

--

997.2 C2 , -20mm I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery early Sept .

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Jul 3, 2015 8:09:54 AM

pmarkow: Rennteam Pro; Loc: cambridge , United Kingdom; Posts: 2277, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 28, 2014; Reply to: BjoernB

Re: 991 GT3 RS

BjoernB:
fritz:
Rossi:
fritz:
pmarkow:
Ferrari press release: .....Downforce increases to 325 kg at 250 km/h, thanks in part to active aerodynamic devices which reduce drag whilst simultaneously generating downforce when required.

some AP interview: GT3 RS 991 has more than doubled the downforce (relative the the GT3 RS 997, with 350kg at 300kph.

and since downforce grows quadratically with velocity .....go figure.

peter

Reading that sentence, I suspect it was written by a marketing person and the English translation of it was not checked by an engineer.
I'd be inclined to wait for the Sport Auto test results for the two cars measured under the same conditions, to rule out apple/orange comparisons.

Isn't the problem of the SportAuto measurement that they measure during standstill, whereas Ferrari's numbers refer to downforce while the car is moving at the actual speed?

Or at least something similar to this, I'm sure we already discussed the discrepancy of Ferrari and SA numbers.

The SA Supertest measures aerodynamic drag and downforce at 200km/h in a wind tunnel. As long as its always the same wind tunnel. the results are directly comparable.

Funny enough I just read yesterday in SA that Ferrari Claims 205 KGs downforce at 200 km/h vs 137 KGs from the 458 - but clearly nowhere near the RS.....

i repeat, downforce grows quadratically with speed. 137kg downforce at 200km/h gives 308kg downforce at 300km/h. and this is the 458, not the 488, which betters these values.

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Jul 3, 2015 10:42:55 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Rossi:

Or at least something similar to this, I'm sure we already discussed the discrepancy of Ferrari and SA numbers.

As you may know, Porsche also "tests" competition models. Apparently they get the same results SA gets. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

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Jul 3, 2015 4:06:14 PM

apias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: United States , United States; Posts: 2608, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2013; Reply to: pmarkow

Re: 991 GT3 RS

pmarkow:

i repeat, downforce grows quadratically with speed. 137kg downforce at 200km/h gives 308kg downforce at 300km/h. and this is the 458, not the 488, which betters these values.

Theoretically. But, as pointed out, the independent wind tunnel tests are really what will tell the actual story.

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Jul 3, 2015 8:08:03 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: apias

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Looks like mine will be completed July 10th and scheduled to arrive at my dealership Sept 4-6th. But I am trying to throw a wrench in the mix by asking to see if I can do factory delivery indecision

Zuffenhausen, as I want to take my son there and visit the Museum again.

--

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Jul 3, 2015 8:12:59 PM

LP997: Senior; Loc: Nord/sud , France; Posts: 694, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 30, 2010; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: 991 GT3 RS

--

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - Waiting 991 GT3 RS

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Jul 3, 2015 9:15:54 PM

pmarkow: Rennteam Pro; Loc: cambridge , United Kingdom; Posts: 2277, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 28, 2014; Reply to: apias

Re: 991 GT3 RS

if you need an experiment to verify newton's laws of classical mechanics then suit yourself::::))))

cheers peter

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Jul 4, 2015 12:56:24 AM

martini964: Veteran; Loc: Toronto , Canada; Posts: 853, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 1, 2014; Reply to: Adam2S

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Adam2S:
Below is full pantone range for how Lava Orange looks in different lighting conditions!

which department of haffman la roche has this one?, never saw it before, interesting

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Jul 4, 2015 4:52:20 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Whoopsy:
Looks like mine will be completed July 10th and scheduled to arrive at my dealership Sept 4-6th. But I am trying to throw a wrench in the mix by asking to see if I can do factory delivery

Zuffenhausen, as I want to take my son there and visit the Museum again.

Good thinking! Smiley

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

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Jul 4, 2015 12:31:03 PM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3251, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006; Reply to: Grant

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Never underestimate Porsches 911 GT cars, they're great track focused cars. My only gripe with P has always been the snobs at the service center....otherwise angel

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Jul 4, 2015 12:34:24 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: martini964

Re: 991 GT3 RS

martini964:
Adam2S:
Below is full pantone range for how Lava Orange looks in different lighting conditions!

which department of haffman la roche has this one?, never saw it before, interesting

If you are looking for "haffman" you won't see it Smiley

--

"Form follows function"

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Jul 4, 2015 12:40:29 PM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3251, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: 991 GT3 RS

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Jul 5, 2015 1:24:33 AM

martini964: Veteran; Loc: Toronto , Canada; Posts: 853, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 1, 2014; Reply to: reginos

Re: 991 GT3 RS

reginos:
martini964:
Adam2S:

If you are looking for "haffman" you won't see it

Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

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Jul 5, 2015 4:56:08 PM

Enmanuel: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Boston , United States; Posts: 8843, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 7, 2008; Reply to: martini964

Re: 991 GT3 RS

At this point I feel like I haven't seen the real color of LO. Literally every picture I see has a different hue.

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Jul 5, 2015 8:37:35 PM

Kobalt: Expert; Loc: Europe , Sweden; Posts: 1819, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2015; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: 991 GT3 RS

Whoopsy,

Sure you want to pick it up so early?

I can take yours and in return you can take mine in october Smiley

Congrats!

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