Crown

I barely see any 991 turbo whereas I see regular 991 every day. I would say the sales in the US are pretty bad...

Unfortunately there are at least 6 991TT in my neighborhood. One of my neighbors also just got the new Z06. He's not selling his TTS.....

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab

SciFrog:

I barely see any 991 turbo whereas I see regular 991 every day. I would say the sales in the US are pretty bad...

It is so bad that 991 Turbo/Turbo S sales numbers are far bigger then combine efforts of all versions of 458, R8/Huracan and 12C/650S.

EnglishManInNY:

Unfortunately there are at least 6 991TT in my neighborhood. One of my neighbors also just got the new Z06. He's not selling his TTS.....

Well we are more or less in the same neighborhood and I drive 500 miles a week..

KresoF1:

SciFrog:

I barely see any 991 turbo whereas I see regular 991 every day. I would say the sales in the US are pretty bad...

It is so bad that 991 Turbo/Turbo S sales numbers are far bigger then combine efforts of all versions of 458, R8/Huracan and 12C/650S.

In the US or worldwide?

kingjr9000:

Who here knows what this guy is? Is it the rumored 960? Or is it just the new gt?

https://www.facebook.com/porsche/posts/10153475188362668

another link with probably a better picture 

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/porsche-teases-future-sportscar-what-could-it-be-ar169951.html

Porsche's mouth are zipped regarding what's underneath the blanket.

I was talking to Mr Muller himself at Le Mans about it and nothing came out of his mouth, except 'that's the future sports car'. 

I don't think we can read too much into the silhouette, it has a 911 green house but the front is more 918-ish, with a more pronounced fender peaks.

But drivetrain wise the future will most certainly be similar to the 918, 919 hybrid. AWD but with a separate e-motor driving the front wheels. Engines could be mid/rear. 

For power-adder route, I would most certainly pick hybrid system over turbos. Tuners will hate the future as they can't just crank up the boost, but the instant throttle response from e-motors trumps even superchargers, and NA motors. 

Downsizing engines while adding turbos are just a stop gap measure until they can perfect the integration of e-motors, which Porsche did brilliantly with the 918. That car is the future of Porsche. But the turbos might or might not stay. Honda has the 2L engine in the S2000 that made 240hp all motor, while it made absolutely no torque at low rpm, a e-motor will instantly fixed that. Imagine such a combination. Hybrid system takes car makers to a different path for performance now, they used to have to tune an engine for low, mid, high end power, but with hybrid system they can skip the low/mid end and just tune an engine for the high end. 

Regen braking is a powerful braking tool, at night in Le Mans you don't really see the brake discs grow red anymore, that's how efficient regen braking is soaking up energy. Those energy were wasted as heat in a conventional car but now those same energy are being used to boost the car's performance. Freebie. 

But will it matter since cars will drive themselves and insurance to drive yourself will be so prohibitive that very few will be able to afford it?

http://www.gtspirit.com/2015/06/17/porsche-teases-new-sports-car/

Whoopsy:

Downsizing engines while adding turbos are just a stop gap measure until they can perfect the integration of e-motors, which Porsche did brilliantly with the 918. That car is the future of Porsche. But the turbos might or might not stay. Honda has the 2L engine in the S2000 that made 240hp all motor, while it made absolutely no torque at low rpm, a e-motor will instantly fixed that. Imagine such a combination. Hybrid system takes car makers to a different path for performance now, they used to have to tune an engine for low, mid, high end power, but with hybrid system they can skip the low/mid end and just tune an engine for the high end.

That is the future and Porsche seems to be betting hard on it. Not a fan of the turbocharging side route they are taking until the can apply hybrid tech on their mainstream road cars, but I'm all for adding hybrid tech to atmospheric engines to enhance performance as well as complying with the progresively restrictive fuel/emission regulations. The 918 showcased very well that that is the future.

Regarding the blanket covered sportscar, 911 greenhouse and different front and from what I see in the picture wide 991 rear axle plus some ultra modern tech...that sounds like a modern 959 to me

Hybrid might work well for car that need a lot of hp. Full electric is the future, hybrid is flawed, too heavy and too expensive. We are only two battery generations away for electric cars to cover 90% of household needs.

SciFrog:

I barely see any 991 turbo whereas I see regular 991 every day. I would say the sales in the US are pretty bad...

compared to the 996 and 997 generations, I see usual strong numbers of new Carrera S of different varieties , but notice far fewer new 991 Turbos or Turbo S around in the same proportion as the past and I live in the heart of the wealthiest part of Silicon Valley , so I think local buyers in that price range don't think it offers value ( what's  another 50-100 grand when  your company stock  holdings go up that much every couple days so are opting for something more exotic for weekends ) and using their Tesla P85D s as their DD , which around here has much greater coolness factor in said DD role in addition to beng allowed to get into the faster flowing car pool lane on our traffic clogged freeways even with a solo driver due to it being electric ...very important for tech execs and VCs who  need to get around all over the Bay to check all their ventures  , whizzing past S classes and 911s crawling at 5 mph in the regular lanes , which lead the latter to get their own the next day !

There are a lot more options now to cross shop with the Turbo, in 996 days you had 360 Modena and that was it

SciFrog:

Hybrid might work well for car that need a lot of hp. Full electric is the future, hybrid is flawed, too heavy and too expensive. We are only two battery generations away for electric cars to cover 90% of household needs.

I think diesel generators powering/charging the electric engines will have its day. A small, isolated diesel working at a very specific and constant RPM to charge batteries and electric engines at each corner for true traction control would be an excellent set-up. That way you could have high output engines without needing truly huge batteries. think of a Tesla Model D that you plug in at night, fill up with a little diesel and drive 1000 miles non-stop with 0-60 times of 3.0 seconds all day long and nearly no emissions.  

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

Mithras:

SciFrog:

Hybrid might work well for car that need a lot of hp. Full electric is the future, hybrid is flawed, too heavy and too expensive. We are only two battery generations away for electric cars to cover 90% of household needs.

I think diesel generators powering/charging the electric engines will have its day. A small, isolated diesel working at a very specific and constant RPM to charge batteries and electric engines at each corner for true traction control would be an excellent set-up. That way you could have high output engines without needing truly huge batteries. think of a Tesla Model D that you plug in at night, fill up with a little diesel and drive 1000 miles non-stop with 0-60 times of 3.0 seconds all day long and nearly no emissions.  

Agreed, that for the 20% not covered by the full electric though...

KresoF1:

SciFrog:

I barely see any 991 turbo whereas I see regular 991 every day. I would say the sales in the US are pretty bad...

It is so bad that 991 Turbo/Turbo S sales numbers are far bigger then combine efforts of all versions of 458, R8/Huracan and 12C/650S.

2014 saw 30,000 911 sales according to Porsche. If 10% of those are turbos, that's only 3000. 10% seems fair considering just how many normal 911s can be seen. I don't think I see more than one turbo for ever 10 normal 911s.

It must be way less than 10%, 5% would actually be amazing... That makes it rarer than a Ferrari 

I want to say I read once that it was around 1500, but I don't think it was global sales and 5% seems a bit low. 3000 seems doable considering Audi was selling like 5000 R8s per year and Porsche has lots of die-hard fans.

That said, I thought a nice 997 Turbo was like $135K back in 2007. Today it seems like it would be around $170K, which surely effects volume.

Not if you consider all the 991 variants, the fact that a turbo is double the price of a base 991 and that most people think that the turbo is now too expensive vs the rest of the market...

SciFrog:

Hybrid might work well for car that need a lot of hp. Full electric is the future, hybrid is flawed, too heavy and too expensive. We are only two battery generations away for electric cars to cover 90% of household needs.

Batteries aren't the problem, charging is.

Tesla Supercharging stations are some of the quickest in the world right now and they still takes 45mins. Once they can get it down to 5-10 minutes like a normal gas station stop then it will take off.

But at that speed the voltage and current will be at a dangerously high level and that's worse than gasoline catching fire.

On the other hand, embedding magnets on the roadways and let electric cars induction charge itself while moving could be a solution to long distance freeway driving, the weak spot for current electric cars.

SciFrog:

Not if you consider all the 991 variants, the fact that a turbo is double the price of a base 991 and that most people think that the turbo is now too expensive vs the rest of the market...

Oh, Porsche knows about the high price of their 991 and variants.

There are quite a few dealer principals with us at Le Mans and we are constantly bitching to the execs about the unreasonably high price hike on the 991s.

The residuals seem to indicate the market agrees that the price is just too high new. 2014 cars are down $30K+ already, which is quite high considering MSRP.

For me, all 911 models I'd want make little sense. No reason to lose $50K on a 911 when I can lose $50K on way cooler and better cars. GT3 is the only decent value 911 these days, which is somewhat ironic considering these cars are usually pay more, get less.

Used car market is always right. 991 are not good values anymore except the GT3 like you said.

Whoopsy:

SciFrog:

Hybrid might work well for car that need a lot of hp. Full electric is the future, hybrid is flawed, too heavy and too expensive. We are only two battery generations away for electric cars to cover 90% of household needs.

Batteries aren't the problem, charging is.

Tesla Supercharging stations are some of the quickest in the world right now and they still takes 45mins. Once they can get it down to 5-10 minutes like a normal gas station stop then it will take off.

But at that speed the voltage and current will be at a dangerously high level and that's worse than gasoline catching fire.

On the other hand, embedding magnets on the roadways and let electric cars induction charge itself while moving could be a solution to long distance freeway driving, the weak spot for current electric cars.

Apparently, the battery swap stations are not the future: Musk: More Tesla Battery-Swapping Stations “Unlikely”

Whoopsy:

kingjr9000:

Who here knows what this guy is? Is it the rumored 960? Or is it just the new gt?

https://www.facebook.com/porsche/posts/10153475188362668

another link with probably a better picture 

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/porsche-teases-future-sportscar-what-could-it-be-ar169951.html

 

Porsche's mouth are zipped regarding what's underneath the blanket.

I was talking to Mr Muller himself at Le Mans about it and nothing came out of his mouth, except 'that's the future sports car'. 

I don't think we can read too much into the silhouette, it has a 911 green house but the front is more 918-ish, with a more pronounced fender peaks.

But drivetrain wise the future will most certainly be similar to the 918, 919 hybrid. AWD but with a separate e-motor driving the front wheels. Engines could be mid/rear. 

For power-adder route, I would most certainly pick hybrid system over turbos. Tuners will hate the future as they can't just crank up the boost, but the instant throttle response from e-motors trumps even superchargers, and NA motors. 

Downsizing engines while adding turbos are just a stop gap measure until they can perfect the integration of e-motors, which Porsche did brilliantly with the 918. That car is the future of Porsche. But the turbos might or might not stay. Honda has the 2L engine in the S2000 that made 240hp all motor, while it made absolutely no torque at low rpm, a e-motor will instantly fixed that. Imagine such a combination. Hybrid system takes car makers to a different path for performance now, they used to have to tune an engine for low, mid, high end power, but with hybrid system they can skip the low/mid end and just tune an engine for the high end. 

Regen braking is a powerful braking tool, at night in Le Mans you don't really see the brake discs grow red anymore, that's how efficient regen braking is soaking up energy. Those energy were wasted as heat in a conventional car but now those same energy are being used to boost the car's performance. Freebie. 

Thanks. At least we did get a hint that something hybrid is coming.

apias:

Whoopsy:

SciFrog:

Hybrid might work well for car that need a lot of hp. Full electric is the future, hybrid is flawed, too heavy and too expensive. We are only two battery generations away for electric cars to cover 90% of household needs.

Batteries aren't the problem, charging is.

Tesla Supercharging stations are some of the quickest in the world right now and they still takes 45mins. Once they can get it down to 5-10 minutes like a normal gas station stop then it will take off.

But at that speed the voltage and current will be at a dangerously high level and that's worse than gasoline catching fire.

On the other hand, embedding magnets on the roadways and let electric cars induction charge itself while moving could be a solution to long distance freeway driving, the weak spot for current electric cars.

Apparently, the battery swap stations are not the future: Musk: More Tesla Battery-Swapping Stations “Unlikely”

That's because ev's aren't the future, fc's and hybrids are.  All we need is for everyone to stop being brainwashed by musk and then we can finally get people to open up to fcev's.

Have to agree top line 991s for me are too expensive, with limited usability.  New GTS and Turbo models are well over 150K, compared to my new Cayenne Turbo, nicely loaded (with a dealer discount from MSRP) for 125K.  A lot more car for a lot less money.  

I do understand the unique appeal and performance of those models, and if I had dollars to play with, I would get a Turbo S regardless….

kingjr9000:

apias:

Whoopsy:

SciFrog:

Hybrid might work well for car that need a lot of hp. Full electric is the future, hybrid is flawed, too heavy and too expensive. We are only two battery generations away for electric cars to cover 90% of household needs.

Batteries aren't the problem, charging is.

Tesla Supercharging stations are some of the quickest in the world right now and they still takes 45mins. Once they can get it down to 5-10 minutes like a normal gas station stop then it will take off.

But at that speed the voltage and current will be at a dangerously high level and that's worse than gasoline catching fire.

On the other hand, embedding magnets on the roadways and let electric cars induction charge itself while moving could be a solution to long distance freeway driving, the weak spot for current electric cars.

Apparently, the battery swap stations are not the future: Musk: More Tesla Battery-Swapping Stations “Unlikely”

That's because ev's aren't the future, fc's and hybrids are.  All we need is for everyone to stop being brainwashed by musk and then we can finally get people to open up to fcev's.

"Finally" is the operative word. People have been predicting that fuel cells are the future for the last fifty years.  

fritz

fritz:

kingjr9000:

apias:

Whoopsy:

SciFrog:

Hybrid might work well for car that need a lot of hp. Full electric is the future, hybrid is flawed, too heavy and too expensive. We are only two battery generations away for electric cars to cover 90% of household needs.

Batteries aren't the problem, charging is.

Tesla Supercharging stations are some of the quickest in the world right now and they still takes 45mins. Once they can get it down to 5-10 minutes like a normal gas station stop then it will take off.

But at that speed the voltage and current will be at a dangerously high level and that's worse than gasoline catching fire.

On the other hand, embedding magnets on the roadways and let electric cars induction charge itself while moving could be a solution to long distance freeway driving, the weak spot for current electric cars.

Apparently, the battery swap stations are not the future: Musk: More Tesla Battery-Swapping Stations “Unlikely”

That's because ev's aren't the future, fc's and hybrids are.  All we need is for everyone to stop being brainwashed by musk and then we can finally get people to open up to fcev's.

"Finally" is the operative word. People have been predicting that fuel cells are the future for the last fifty years.  

True, you got me there.  But I think the main problem is that people still think of the hindenburg exploding, and the lack of fuel stations.  Once we can get those two taken care of, we can probably get fc's to the point of alternative fuel, instead of giving musk more ego and money.  Plus, we still don't know how audi's going along with their benzin fuel.

Chicken and Egg.

Stations will only appear if there are more cars, and there will be more cars if there are more stations.

Elon is doing both together. Admire his resolve. 

Hybrid has the upper edge as they can go into regular gas stations AND electric charging stations, with such flexibility, they are hard to beat in the market place and very likely they will be the mainstream for a long time.