Crown

with manufacturers working with the tire companies to make specific compounds for their factory cars, it is difficult to make generalized statements about tire performance characteristics anymore

track vid

0-300kph

chasing a 997GT2

eclou:

with manufacturers working with the tire companies to make specific compounds for their factory cars, it is difficult to make generalized statements about tire performance characteristics anymore

That is mostly marketing BS to be honest. I'm very close to Michelin engineers through my racing activities in WEC and ELMS and 90% of the time, the tyre is not specific to the model. 

A good example is Porsche with the Carrera GT. They claimed they worked with Michelin to develop an N0 tyre blah blah, it's pure BS.

The tyre is identical to the non N0 supersport, bar the fact it's 335 wide and not 345. 

Don't fall for manufacturer's crap. Wait til the warranty expires and put the tyre you want. Adjust the pressures depending on engine location and enjoy your car with your favorite tyres brand, period.

As soon as the awful Pirelli Corsa are done on my LaFerrari, I'm putting Cup 2 and a proper harness, it should transform the experience.

Sounds about right Futch - I like the tire advice.  Marketing can get in the way and into the fun.

Thank you! Tires have different needs, abilities and attributes but putting an equivalent Michelin on a car that originally came with a Pirelli is not a dangerous thing!!!!!

Your Porsche will work just fine (and often better and certainly cheaper!) with non N-Rated tires.

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

KresoF1:

Btw, Trofeo is not available in original dimension for Huracan front axle. So, they had to use tire which is not optimal. Kind of strange IMHO.  Sport Auto mnetioned that in their article as well as the problem with front diff that overheated during hard acceleration tests.

So the Huracan tested is on Trofeo?

As for the front diff overheating, it's likely the rolling diameter is out of spec.

Mithras:

       

Thank you! Tires have different needs, abilities and attributes but putting an equivalent Michelin on a car that originally came with a Pirelli is not a dangerous thing!!!!!

Your Porsche will work just fine (and often better and certainly cheaper!) with non N-Rated tires.

agreed. I run Hoosier A6 on my toys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNGoGcSqz1g&list=UUmwGDWD4L-FsS70MBxT9gHQ

chasing a 997GT2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYGqxxx9vQ&list=UUmwGDWD4L-FsS70MBxT9gHQ

Whoopsy:

KresoF1:

Btw, Trofeo is not available in original dimension for Huracan front axle. So, they had to use tire which is not optimal. Kind of strange IMHO.  Sport Auto mnetioned that in their article as well as the problem with front diff that overheated during hard acceleration tests.

 

So the Huracan tested is on Trofeo?

 

Affirmative. That was the trick Lambo did with their Huracan, as well as the LP570, concerning their QR tests.

BTW I never liked Michelins. Always found the Pirellis to be the faster tyres. Tests of the Trofeos vs the Cups seem to concur with that. 

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

Futch:

 

I disagree, that was the case for the Cup1 .

I have Cup 2 on my 4.0 and they are a massive improvement over the Cup 1 in terms of endurance and wet performance. Definitely the best sport tyre for me out there today in terms of compromise.

The Michelin Supersport is the best for the road if one doens't track their car. I have never tried the Pirelli Trofeo but all their other models are shit. 

Bridgestone also make very good tyres. The RE 070 is an excellent alternative to the Cup 2.

 

 

Isn't the 070 more of a competitor to the Supersport?

My Speciale comes with Cup2 and my 918 will also have it. No complains on the tires in the dry, other than the fact that it takes time to warm them up. I drove the Speciale in the rain a few times, decent traction, imo better than the PS2 in the wet, but that the extend of Michelin experience I had. It's definitely inferior to the PZeros I had on my 12C and Turbo S.

Futch:

eclou:

with manufacturers working with the tire companies to make specific compounds for their factory cars, it is difficult to make generalized statements about tire performance characteristics anymore

That is mostly marketing BS to be honest. I'm very close to Michelin engineers through my racing activities in WEC and ELMS and 90% of the time, the tyre is not specific to the model. 

A good example is Porsche with the Carrera GT. They claimed they worked with Michelin to develop an N0 tyre blah blah, it's pure BS.

The tyre is identical to the non N0 supersport, bar the fact it's 335 wide and not 345. 

Don't fall for manufacturer's crap. Wait til the warranty expires and put the tyre you want. Adjust the pressures depending on engine location and enjoy your car with your favorite tyres brand, period.

As soon as the awful Pirelli Corsa are done on my LaFerrari, I'm putting Cup 2 and a proper harness, it should transform the experience.

 

I don't doubt what you are saying, but the N spec Pilot Cup Sports were nothing like the non-N spec that some ran on the track. I've seen a stack of 4 235/35/19 in the N spec next to a stack of 4 non- N and there is dimensionally increased width even

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNGoGcSqz1g&list=UUmwGDWD4L-FsS70MBxT9gHQ

chasing a 997GT2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYGqxxx9vQ&list=UUmwGDWD4L-FsS70MBxT9gHQ

Whoopsy:

Futch:

 

I disagree, that was the case for the Cup1 .

I have Cup 2 on my 4.0 and they are a massive improvement over the Cup 1 in terms of endurance and wet performance. Definitely the best sport tyre for me out there today in terms of compromise.

The Michelin Supersport is the best for the road if one doens't track their car. I have never tried the Pirelli Trofeo but all their other models are shit. 

Bridgestone also make very good tyres. The RE 070 is an excellent alternative to the Cup 2.

 

 

 

Isn't the 070 more of a competitor to the Supersport?

My Speciale comes with Cup2 and my 918 will also have it. No complains on the tires in the dry, other than the fact that it takes time to warm them up. I drove the Speciale in the rain a few times, decent traction, imo better than the PS2 in the wet, but that the extend of Michelin experience I had. It's definitely inferior to the PZeros I had on my 12C and Turbo S.

I run RE070 on my LFA and they are very impressive but I see your point, not as grippy as the Cup 2. 

Wet traction is not great that's for sure, but it's a lot better than the Cup 1 which would just start aquaplanning above 100 kmh!

eclou:

Futch:

eclou:

with manufacturers working with the tire companies to make specific compounds for their factory cars, it is difficult to make generalized statements about tire performance characteristics anymore

That is mostly marketing BS to be honest. I'm very close to Michelin engineers through my racing activities in WEC and ELMS and 90% of the time, the tyre is not specific to the model. 

A good example is Porsche with the Carrera GT. They claimed they worked with Michelin to develop an N0 tyre blah blah, it's pure BS.

The tyre is identical to the non N0 supersport, bar the fact it's 335 wide and not 345. 

Don't fall for manufacturer's crap. Wait til the warranty expires and put the tyre you want. Adjust the pressures depending on engine location and enjoy your car with your favorite tyres brand, period.

As soon as the awful Pirelli Corsa are done on my LaFerrari, I'm putting Cup 2 and a proper harness, it should transform the experience.

 

I don't doubt what you are saying, but the N spec Pilot Cup Sports were nothing like the non-N spec that some ran on the track. I've seen a stack of 4 235/35/19 in the N spec next to a stack of 4 non- N and there is dimensionally increased width even

How can they be different in width if they are both 235?

Futch:

eclou:

Futch:

eclou:

with manufacturers working with the tire companies to make specific compounds for their factory cars, it is difficult to make generalized statements about tire performance characteristics anymore

That is mostly marketing BS to be honest. I'm very close to Michelin engineers through my racing activities in WEC and ELMS and 90% of the time, the tyre is not specific to the model. 

A good example is Porsche with the Carrera GT. They claimed they worked with Michelin to develop an N0 tyre blah blah, it's pure BS.

The tyre is identical to the non N0 supersport, bar the fact it's 335 wide and not 345. 

Don't fall for manufacturer's crap. Wait til the warranty expires and put the tyre you want. Adjust the pressures depending on engine location and enjoy your car with your favorite tyres brand, period.

As soon as the awful Pirelli Corsa are done on my LaFerrari, I'm putting Cup 2 and a proper harness, it should transform the experience.

 

I don't doubt what you are saying, but the N spec Pilot Cup Sports were nothing like the non-N spec that some ran on the track. I've seen a stack of 4 235/35/19 in the N spec next to a stack of 4 non- N and there is dimensionally increased width even

How can they be different in width if they are both 235?

 

That's the whole point. The N-spec MPSC (gen 1) and non-N were 2 different tires - non-N was far grippier compound and fractionally wider, despite both sharing the same label. Very well known quirk. Some manufacturers including Michelin, Hoosier, Toyo, etc have made "cheater" tires to comply with class specs for club racers. Some 235's are as wide as 255 street tires. Ask your Michelin buddies about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNGoGcSqz1g&list=UUmwGDWD4L-FsS70MBxT9gHQ

chasing a 997GT2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYGqxxx9vQ&list=UUmwGDWD4L-FsS70MBxT9gHQ

Weird thing with tire manufacturers.

Supersports 235/35-19 has a 9" tread width, while a PS2 and PZero of the same size is 8.5" wide.

One of my friends used to run a tuner shop, drives him crazy with the different widths as those little difference counts for fender clearance when he run wider tires on lowered cars.

eclou:

Futch:

eclou:

Futch:

eclou:

with manufacturers working with the tire companies to make specific compounds for their factory cars, it is difficult to make generalized statements about tire performance characteristics anymore

That is mostly marketing BS to be honest. I'm very close to Michelin engineers through my racing activities in WEC and ELMS and 90% of the time, the tyre is not specific to the model. 

A good example is Porsche with the Carrera GT. They claimed they worked with Michelin to develop an N0 tyre blah blah, it's pure BS.

The tyre is identical to the non N0 supersport, bar the fact it's 335 wide and not 345. 

Don't fall for manufacturer's crap. Wait til the warranty expires and put the tyre you want. Adjust the pressures depending on engine location and enjoy your car with your favorite tyres brand, period.

As soon as the awful Pirelli Corsa are done on my LaFerrari, I'm putting Cup 2 and a proper harness, it should transform the experience.

 

I don't doubt what you are saying, but the N spec Pilot Cup Sports were nothing like the non-N spec that some ran on the track. I've seen a stack of 4 235/35/19 in the N spec next to a stack of 4 non- N and there is dimensionally increased width even

How can they be different in width if they are both 235?

 

That's the whole point. The N-spec MPSC (gen 1) and non-N were 2 different tires - non-N was far grippier compound and fractionally wider, despite both sharing the same label. Very well known quirk. Some manufacturers including Michelin, Hoosier, Toyo, etc have made "cheater" tires to comply with class specs for club racers. Some 235's are as wide as 255 street tires. Ask your Michelin buddies about it

i just did and he denied. He says the tolerance on tyre width if less than 5mm, which makes sense. So in his words you will never find a Michelin tyres that labels 235 mm wide and will be 255. Which frankly, makes sense.

He did however say that between two tyres of same dimensions, the tyre compound can differ depending on manufacturer spec, for example and N rated tyre and a non rated tyre, but not all of them (ex: the supersport N0 for the GT).

I will be in Texas for the 6 hours of the WEC at COTA, maybe see you there!

Futch I will very likely be there with Red Bull. The Huracan's 100-200kph is 6.4s which is brisk but not that exciting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNGoGcSqz1g&list=UUmwGDWD4L-FsS70MBxT9gHQ

chasing a 997GT2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYGqxxx9vQ&list=UUmwGDWD4L-FsS70MBxT9gHQ

Can anyone please post QR's Aventador charts for comparisson reasons?

So Lamborghini did uses Trofeo R as the test tires, now the time make sense.

Wonder what tires customer cars comes with.

Whoopsy:

So Lamborghini did uses Trofeo R as the test tires, now the time make sense.

Wonder what tires customer cars comes with.

Pzero, just like every other exotic car. Not sure why so many companies keep using Pzero. I think MPSS are great tires and most seem to agree they are way better than Pzeros.

Admitedly, I have not tried the Supersports, but other Michelins I have tried were not to my taste. I am a Pirelli guy. Supercar manufacturers seem to agree with that.

Super sport is a great street tire, especially so for dry grip, but PZeros is a better all around tire for everyday usage as it has more cold and wet grip. In another word, safer.

The Supesports are similar to the P Zero Corsas and not the normal Zeros, right?

MPPS is a competitor of normal PZero...

REALZEUS:

Can anyone please post QR's Aventador charts for comparisson reasons?

From GCF 2012 QR test

REALZEUS:

The Supesports are similar to the P Zero Corsas and not the normal Zeros, right?

Supersports is the new version of the old PS2, same grade as the normal Pzeros. Corsas is a step up from the regular PZeros, call it the mild version of a street/track tire and Michelin don't really have a direct competitor. 

From Michelin, the next step up from Supersports is the Cup and Cup2 tires, which are like the Trofeo and Trofeo R.

Got to finally see the Huracan and Aventador side by side. Huracan grows on me a little, but the Aventador murders it in presence. In fact, Aventador has similar presence to 918/P1/LF IMO. The Huracan rear just looked terrible. It's like the rear end was entirely made of cheap matte grey plastic. Not enough paint. Front end doesn't do it for me either. This car was white, but I would like to see it in Grigio Estoque.

It's too bad the Aventador weighs 8000 lbs :/

noone1:

 

It's too bad the Aventador weighs 8000 lbs :/

And has an unforgivably bad gearbox

Good video review from Autocar in the UK. Lots of understeer there!

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-lamborghini-huracan-review

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab

Eh, I don't go to the track and I've never experience either understeer or oversteer. Need to be going too fast and driving in the wrong lane to experience those things in real life.

If it's great 99% of the time, then it's great overall. Still not sold on the looks. It's priced well, but I still think it will depreciate a lot. Will give it a year or two before I consider one. Need to see the R8 and other new cars to launch in the next 2 years.

EnglishManInNY:

Good video review from Autocar in the UK. Lots of understeer there!

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-lamborghini-huracan-review

On test drives from Journalist we have seen on mags or videos everybody seems to like the Huracan, but the way they express themselves, is if they were talking about a Golf GTI or Megane Sport, and not about a new supercar from Lamborguini. If you compare the review on this same mags of 458 or 991GT3 they speak with passion and are overwhelmed by driving pleasure those cars provide! As to Huaracan they are not very impresse, they simply like and say it´s a good product. Anyway, this worth was is worth, what really matters is real life ownership, still from what I´ve been seeing on videos and magazines, 458, 650S and 991GT3 seem to be much more passionate cars than Huracan!

If I had to choose one without driving any, my choise would be Huracan, the V10 sound and looks are simply on another league compared with the other 3, but afer a driving test, I believe I could change my mind. Would like to hear opinions from those who had the chance to drive the Huracan and compare it with competition.

--

J.Seven

997.2 Cab 2S

Maserati Quattroporte Sport GTS

BMW X6 4.0D

BMW X5 4.4i V8