Crown

Rossi:

Grant:

Rossi:

Grant:

Rossi:

GR:

Especially with monstrous 20" wheels and tyres, which negate much of the saving.  And if it wasn't for such low profile tyres you wouldn't need the extra weight of PASM either

Absolutely agree. I find the insane growth in rim-size rather disturbing. Yes, 20"-wheels (or bigger) may look impressive at first sight (though looks are very subjective), but at least for me rim size went over the top in last years. Give me 17" and 18" for standard and 18" and 19" for perfomance cars, that's enough for me.

Hard to fit 410mm brake rotors inside smaller wheels

Of course you are right with that, but let me ask: do we really need 410mm brake rotors, is that really neccessary?

When you have a car that is both quite heavy and very fast, there is a tremendous amount of heat energy to be dissipated at the race track.  Big brakes are necessary when you combine heavy, fast, and track driving.  If you only have 2 of the above, then you can survive with smaller brakes.

in the case of the GT3, you also have a 4th variable, large sticky track tires that come standard on the car and a mild amount of aero downforce which is the 5th element.  Yes, I would need big brakes on this car!

Definition of "big", please, for me 380 mm seems big enough.

I'd rather have 410's, but even 380's are going to need 19" wheels, right?  I have upgraded 355mm Brembo 6-piston brakes on the Evo and they are not big enough at the track (weighs about same as GT3 with smaller tires and less power).  I have 300mm Brembo 4-piston brakes on the 73 911 and they are the only track brakes I've ever had that are fully capable, no matter how abused (much less weight to stop).

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

reginos:

KresoF1:

Not so on 991 Turbo or GT3. New PCCBs are pretty big in size and offer marginal weight advantage. 

They are bigger than the standard steel discs?

Standard steel are 380mm overall and PCCBs are 410mm/390mm.

So you get more braking with the same or even slightly less weight. Very positive.

"Form follows function"

PCCB are simply the better brakes.  It is silly to debate other than the price.  Sure there are better uses for the money and yes they may not be best for the track but they are still better in many other ways.  If Porsche did not think they were superior by $8K they would charge less or not make them.  It is up to all of you to decide if they are worth it.  At least they are giving us a choice (still) unlike PDK.  Keep in mind Ferrari and others only offer carbon brakes now. 

Don't buy them if you don't like them but frankly it is only a question of money.  You know me - I prefer manual transmissions and use all season tires on my 911 (not the turbo) because I am a driver - hundreds of thousands of miles!  For me the PCCB are at the top of any Porsche option list.  Period.  If you can afford them - get them.

reginos:

So you get more braking with the same or even slightly less weight. Very positive.

Actually no. You got different more graby feel and brakes that are more fragile. Stopping power is more or less the same. After my own test drives of both 991T and 991TS, side by side my conclusion is that PCCBs are totally overpriced in comparison to standard brakes. Not to mention that PCCBs are not recommended even for occasional track driving...

Why are PDCC discs designed to be  larger on this two models, if stopping power is the same as steel brakes 

"Form follows function"

reginos:

Why are PDCC discs designed to be  larger on this two models, if stopping power is the same as steel brakes 

The marketing department decided on that  

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

reginos:

Why are PDCC discs designed to be  larger on this two models, if stopping power is the same as steel brakes 

 

The larger disc size probably allows for greater heat dissipation due to the less pad pressure per surface area and thus make them less fragile (such as cracks, wear, etc) with the heavier use seen in a more powerfull, sportier or heavier version.

--

bluelines:

reginos:

Why are PDCC discs designed to be  larger on this two models, if stopping power is the same as steel brakes 

The marketing department decided on that  

Or there is that too, probably more likely  

Carlos from Spain:

bluelines:

reginos:

Why are PDCC discs designed to be  larger on this two models, if stopping power is the same as steel brakes 

The marketing department decided on that  

Or there is that too, probably more likely  

Funny how Porsche engineering is so respected in all other cases - except brakes - which IMHO are awesome.  I would rather save money on something else.   If you are going to argue about Value for the Money then buy a Honda (or Hellcat).

The pccb rotors are larger diameter and also thicker than iron ones.  This makes for higher thermal limits on the track.  There will be replacement iron rotors in the large 410 x 36 mm size to work with pccb calipers and this would be a pretty bulletproof setup for track use (hard to overheat and pads/rotors will last much longer).

I have yet to meet stock brakes that I couldn't easily overheat at the track...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Anybody have PDLS Plus with their LED lights?

Seems that it was not installed on 2014 GT3's (no camera on rear view)

Do you find it's operation good or bad?

Thanks in advance

Another nice track day, was first time on it but the car performed flawless.

http://youtu.be/R81yO0MHblk?list=UU7eoM09W_QfJQiuzt5_4TWA

Awesome video - I love that ttrack, too bad the F1 GP is not there any longer.  I recall MS doing like 4 or 5 stops in order to win a race there.  You are very smooth and quick. Consistent improving lap times.  Just one little heart stopper I saw going into turn one at the start of lap 8.  Too cool.  Love the telemetry -

THANK YOU - now I am going to review the other videos you posted.

Cheers!

Nice!  Which system are you using for video with data telemetry?

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

philgva:

Another nice track day, was first time on it but the car performed flawless.

 

http://youtu.be/R81yO0MHblk?list=UU7eoM09W_QfJQiuzt5_4TWA

Hello. Unfortunately, I could not do that track day. But I was at Dijon today with my 991 GT3. Everything was ok, except the fuel indicator that has decided not to work at all...! I had to count my laps!!

Question: what was your best lap time at Magny?

Great footage Phil. What hot tyre pressures are you setting?

KresoF1:

reginos:

So you get more braking with the same or even slightly less weight. Very positive.

Actually no. You got different more graby feel and brakes that are more fragile. Stopping power is more or less the same. After my own test drives of both 991T and 991TS, side by side my conclusion is that PCCBs are totally overpriced in comparison to standard brakes. Not to mention that PCCBs are not recommended even for occasional track driving...

At least Porsche PCCB brakes have CCB carbonseramic technology unlike Ferrari's standart seramic brakes which are CCM, old technology. Therefore, they last much shorter than Porsche/Audi/Lambo/Mercedes seramic brakes.

At 10.000 km, I need to refurbished my CCM, old technology, seramic rotors on my 458 italia. I did many track days but another regular tracker LP570 SL's brake pads/rotors last much longer than mine.

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

pride355:

KresoF1:

reginos:

So you get more braking with the same or even slightly less weight. Very positive.

Actually no. You got different more graby feel and brakes that are more fragile. Stopping power is more or less the same. After my own test drives of both 991T and 991TS, side by side my conclusion is that PCCBs are totally overpriced in comparison to standard brakes. Not to mention that PCCBs are not recommended even for occasional track driving...

At least Porsche PCCB brakes have CCB carbonseramic technology unlike Ferrari's standart seramic brakes which are CCM, old technology. Therefore, they last much shorter than Porsche/Audi/Lambo/Mercedes seramic brakes.

At 10.000 km, I need to refurbished my CCM, old technology, seramic rotors on my 458 italia. I did many track days but another regular tracker LP570 SL's brake pads/rotors last much longer than mine.

That's interesting news, in fact I never heard about that.

Are you sure about the differences in material and durability between CCM and PCCB?

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

pride355:

KresoF1:

reginos:

So you get more braking with the same or even slightly less weight. Very positive.

Actually no. You got different more graby feel and brakes that are more fragile. Stopping power is more or less the same. After my own test drives of both 991T and 991TS, side by side my conclusion is that PCCBs are totally overpriced in comparison to standard brakes. Not to mention that PCCBs are not recommended even for occasional track driving...

At least Porsche PCCB brakes have CCB carbonseramic technology unlike Ferrari's standart seramic brakes which are CCM, old technology. Therefore, they last much shorter than Porsche/Audi/Lambo/Mercedes seramic brakes.

At 10.000 km, I need to refurbished my CCM, old technology, seramic rotors on my 458 italia. I did many track days but another regular tracker LP570 SL's brake pads/rotors last much longer than mine.

That's interesting news, in fact I never heard about that.

Are you sure about the differences in material and durability between CCM and PCCB?

Here is the info on this:

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Date of this info?
Since the 458 Speciale has the "same" brakes as LaFerrari, it is hard to believe that Ferrari use today a "out of dated" system...?

igirl:

Date of this info?
Since the 458 Speciale has the "same" brakes as LaFerrari, it is hard to believe that Ferrari use today a "out of dated" system...?

This is present info. Just checked the used Ferrari rotors vs Porsche/Lambo rotors. Trust me, I have spend money and time on this.. I also checked this by Ferrari factory.

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

pride355:

Rossi:

pride355:

KresoF1:

reginos:

So you get more braking with the same or even slightly less weight. Very positive.

Actually no. You got different more graby feel and brakes that are more fragile. Stopping power is more or less the same. After my own test drives of both 991T and 991TS, side by side my conclusion is that PCCBs are totally overpriced in comparison to standard brakes. Not to mention that PCCBs are not recommended even for occasional track driving...

At least Porsche PCCB brakes have CCB carbonseramic technology unlike Ferrari's standart seramic brakes which are CCM, old technology. Therefore, they last much shorter than Porsche/Audi/Lambo/Mercedes seramic brakes.

At 10.000 km, I need to refurbished my CCM, old technology, seramic rotors on my 458 italia. I did many track days but another regular tracker LP570 SL's brake pads/rotors last much longer than mine.

That's interesting news, in fact I never heard about that.

Are you sure about the differences in material and durability between CCM and PCCB?

Here is the info on this:

Well, Ferrari's CCM was originally manufactured by Brembo, but in 2009 Brembo did a 50/50-joint venture with SGL Carbon, the other manufacturer of CC-brakes. And to my knowledge nearly all carbon-ceramic brakes of the top marques like Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Maserati, McLaren, Bugatti etc. are nowadays produced by this Brembo-SGL-Carbon joint venture.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Here is my used front rotors; just checked the surface:

I just put this front tires/wheels on my car to be 100% sure of the reason of the vibration on braking; it wasn't related to my wheels.

--

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Here is the CCB rotors of F32 M4. I took this picture myself from an M4 which had a hard track use:

Porsche rotors also has this mirror-like surface unlike Ferrari.

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Here is the surface of my refurbished rotors:

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Here is more info on this:

http://rennlist.com/forums/9743563-post66.html

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Here is a picture of Porsche CCB rotors:

https://www.stuttcars.com/part/1190/

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

igirl:

Date of this info?
Since the 458 Speciale has the "same" brakes as LaFerrari, it is hard to believe that Ferrari use today a "out of dated" system...?

very good question.

Enmanuel:

igirl:

Date of this info?
Since the 458 Speciale has the "same" brakes as LaFerrari, it is hard to believe that Ferrari use today a "out of dated" system...?

very good question.

458 Speciale and LaF uses CCM 3 technology which has different compound rotors and different size (smaller) and compound pads than 458 italia/spider/cali which uses CCM 2. F12 also uses CCM 3 but I don't know about the new Cali T. However in the end, they are all CCM.

The biggest difference between 458 italia and Speciale on brake systems are:

1) speciale has "bridge" design calipers which de-charge heat more efficiently due to open design

2) All 4 rotors have cooling ducts/channels but italia has none.

--ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)