not all the middle east pays the same prices, in Lebanon a gt3 nicely equipped comes in at around 240k, and then we have 12k registration.  Porsche Lebanon only gives us a 2 year warranty.

Moser

In emirates, a GT3 without a single option is 134K with 2 years warranty only.

Whoopsy:

nberry:

Great! I assume with the new engine? What is your ETA?

Carlos, I can't speak for Spain but I do know Middle East buyers pay as much if not less than we do and yet they got the European package. We in NA are Porsche's biggest market. They should treat us the same as their other markets.

 

Nick, while the USA is the biggest market for Porsche, it is also the lowest retail price market in the whole world.

Don't have to look far, we Canadian already paid about a 25-30% premium to what US buyer pays. And we are at a much lower price point than the rest of the world.

You Americans have it easy. If you want Porsche to treat you as the rest of the world, be prepared to pay 240k for a half decent configed Turbo S or 180k for s well optioned GT3. 

Or 345k for a 458 Speciale before options.

Can you stomach that price?

 

 

Nick, if there is a difference in price usually it is because of taxes not the price of the car. If there is a price difference it is because Porsche has a business reason to do so and we in NA should not be penalized for their business practices.

Also, the reason for the compensation given by Porsche is to make up for the loss of enjoyment of the car and a goodwill gesture. It has nothing to do with the price of the car. Do owners in NA enjoy Porsche cars less?

Sorry those arguments do not fly. Porsche needs to treat us equally when it involves compensation.

If there is an in

nberry:

Whoopsy:

nberry:

Great! I assume with the new engine? What is your ETA?

Carlos, I can't speak for Spain but I do know Middle East buyers pay as much if not less than we do and yet they got the European package. We in NA are Porsche's biggest market. They should treat us the same as their other markets.

 

Nick, while the USA is the biggest market for Porsche, it is also the lowest retail price market in the whole world.

Don't have to look far, we Canadian already paid about a 25-30% premium to what US buyer pays. And we are at a much lower price point than the rest of the world.

You Americans have it easy. If you want Porsche to treat you as the rest of the world, be prepared to pay 240k for a half decent configed Turbo S or 180k for s well optioned GT3. 

Or 345k for a 458 Speciale before options.

Can you stomach that price?

 

 

Nick, if there is a difference in price usually it is because of taxes not the price of the car. If there is a price difference it is because Porsche has a business reason to do so and we in NA should not be penalized for their business practices.

Also, the reason for the compensation given by Porsche is to make up for the loss of enjoyment of the car and a goodwill gesture. It has nothing to do with the price of the car. Do owners in NA enjoy Porsche cars less?

Sorry those arguments do not fly. Porsche needs to treat us equally when it involves compensation.

If there is an in

I agree, you should be treated equally, lest start by cutting your factory warranty by half to only 2 years like in continental Europe, and continue by raising the MSRP to Europe's before taxes (which is still significantly higher than US before taxes), then after that you should get the same compensation as the European average  ... Its a win win! you would be happy because you got treated equally as continental Europe and Porsche would be happy because they got off much much better with plenty of money in the pocket from US customers 

Carlos, Porsche isn't giving us a four warranty out of the kindness of their heart. It is required by law. Also, vehicle pricing has many variable factored in like taxes, demand and currency value. None of which have anything to do with Porsche favoring one country over another.

Nice try though.

nberry:

Carlos, Porsche isn't giving us a four warranty out of the kindness of their heart. It is required by law. Also, vehicle pricing has many variable factored in like taxes, demand and currency value. None of which have anything to do with Porsche favoring one country over another.

Nice try though.

Nick:  Tell us when you want to stop digging the hole you are getting ever-deeper into.... 

Saludos,

Eduardo, Carmel

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.

Nick - please keep our prices low and warranties high.  Accept that you are being treated equally like all US customers - do not wish yourself ROW prices and warranties.  (BTW - what law forces the 4yr Porsche warranty?)

Many state laws provide remedies for violation of an express warranty by the manufacturers but must be brought within four years. Implied warranties can be longer.

However, I was mistaken regarding federal law requiring all manufacturers to provide a four year warranty as pointed out by Eduardo's post.

NIck, the point I'm making is that you tried to play the 2nd rate customer discrimination card compared to European customers in regards to the compensation in front of European customers when you have it way way better in much more important matters, you can buy a Turbo S there for the price of a base Carrera here  on top of it we are talking about a European made car not an american car!... to us you sounded spoiled. More so when some of those countries in continental Europe don't even get a dime and only get a year extended warranty which is still less than the four year factory warranty you get in the US.

--

Carlos, I fully understand. Some rich kid crying foul.

But the perception/probable fact in NA is Europeans are getting better compensation. I have made my position clear. If there is a valid reason for Porsche giving better compensation to Europe customers tell me and I will drop the matter. Up until now Porsche has not given any explanation for the disparity in compensation.

They should understand there is a gathering storm among NA GT3 stakeholders on this issue. Many are getting their cars back now but remain very upset with the compensation difference. 

nberry:

Carlos, I fully understand. Some rich kid crying foul.

But the perception/probable fact in NA is Europeans are getting better compensation. I have made my position clear. If there is a valid reason for Porsche giving better compensation to Europe customers tell me and I will drop the matter. Up until now Porsche has not given any explanation for the disparity in compensation.

You speak of "Europe" vs U.S.as if ask the countries of Europe are getting the same compensation, but each country has a different one, Spain and Portugal are getting none except the extended warranty. My view is that the reason for the differences you mention is because the compensation is not up to Porsche AG but rather to each Porsche importer of each country, as in PCNA, Porsche Iberica, Porsche GB, etc and therefore the combination varies greatly from country to country 

Carlos, initially I thought that was the case. But PCNA has assured me on several occasions they are trying to get more compensation but to now PAG is resisting.

They also told me that PAG was coming out with an announcement explaining reasons for the disparity in compensation. That was over a month ago. I am not holding my breath.

nberry:

But the perception/probable fact in NA is Europeans are getting better compensation. I have made my position clear. If there is a valid reason for Porsche giving better compensation to Europe customers tell me and I will drop the matter. Up until now Porsche has not given any explanation for the disparity in compensation.

 

 

If the list price of the same car is much higher in Europe (Germany for example) it is simple economics that the compensation should be higher in Europe, right  Higher price = higher cost to own the car (depreciation) = higher compensation payment. Am I missing something 

I don't know. Is the list price higher in Germany? Also, GT3 owners in the Middle East are being compensated almost the same as European owners even though their list price is about the same as US.

nberry:

Carlos, initially I thought that was the case. But PCNA has assured me on several occasions they are trying to get more compensation but to now PAG is resisting.

They also told me that PAG was coming out with an announcement explaining reasons for the disparity in compensation. That was over a month ago. I am not holding my breath.

Seems to me PCNA is using PAG as an excuse so they can play good cop in this while using PAG as an escape goat.If PAG was deciding the compensation then why the huge disparities between european countries?

nberry:

I don't know. Is the list price higher 

LIST price in Switzerland ( so , without any taxes )  in  US $   : 197'630.00  

Maybe you should now believe that there is a HUGE difference !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is normal the compensation is bigger .

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

nberry:

I don't know. Is the list price higher 

LIST price in Switzerland ( so , without any taxes )  in  US $   : 197'630.00  

Maybe you should now believe that there is a HUGE difference !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is normal the compensation is bigger .

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

How do you explain the Middle East? FWIW, Porsche has emphasized that the compensation is for inconvenience and loss of enjoyment. Based on what they are telling us, it has nothing to do with what you paid for the car.

Carlos, believe me I have questioned the motives of PCNA. They would like nothing better than to pass the blame off to PAG. But logically from a business standpoint, PAG would not leave the terms of the compensation to various regional Porsche centers. 

nberry:

 

How do you explain the Middle East? FWIW, Porsche has emphasized that the compensation is for inconvenience and loss of enjoyment. Based on what they are telling us, it has nothing to do with what you paid for the car.

Carlos, believe me I have questioned the motives of PCNA. They would like nothing better than to pass the blame off to PAG. But logically from a business standpoint, PAG would not leave the terms of the compensation to various regional Porsche centers. 

I don't explain it  . And I agree , it does not make sense .  But I am with Carlos on this one . The only way it could be explained is that each regional company managed the compensation .  It's the only thing that makes sense . 

There seem to be two extremes : Spain/Portugal :  high buying price but very low compensation 

                                                    Dubai and ( Kowait ? ) : low buying price but high compensation

All others  seem to be in proportion to the buying price . 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Got my car back yesterday... drove it for 76 miles... feels different....

before it was more raw, louder with more rattles...

now quieter, does not feel as potent as before, not as eager to rev, keep in mind i am following a very strict warm up procedure and not going over 5 k revs,  dealer says that probably engine is slightly limited electronically until 2000 mile break in procedure is accomplished... i sure hope that this is true...

at least no more embarrassing white smoke on start up... it used to fill the entire garage and people would walk up to me to ask me what was wrong with my car...

I drove the original engine for 598 miles before the stop driving order was issued, so i am pretty sure the difference i note is real... i really hope it does get better, right now feels very similar to my carrera S... 

nberry:

Nick, if there is a difference in price usually it is because of taxes not the price of the car. If there is a price difference it is because Porsche has a business reason to do so and we in NA should not be penalized for their business practices.

Also, the reason for the compensation given by Porsche is to make up for the loss of enjoyment of the car and a goodwill gesture. It has nothing to do with the price of the car. Do owners in NA enjoy Porsche cars less?

Sorry those arguments do not fly. Porsche needs to treat us equally when it involves compensation.

If there is an in

Prices we quoted in North America are before tax, unlike the Europeans who quoted it with VAT.

A GT3 starts at $130,400 in the US, same car is listed as $148,880 in Canada. Even accounting for the current exchange rate the Canadian price still amounts to ~$138k US. 

Official word from Porsche Canada is that the price difference between US and Canada is due to corporate structure and equipment difference. They say they packaged more equipment standard to the Canadian market that's relevant to Canadians, but last time I check the difference between whats standard here doesn't not even come close to the extra they are charging.

As for warranty, we have the same 4 yrs as the US.

ag23:

Got my car back yesterday... drove it for 76 miles... feels different....

before it was more raw, louder with more rattles...

now quieter, does not feel as potent as before, not as eager to rev, keep in mind i am following a very strict warm up procedure and not going over 5 k revs,  dealer says that probably engine is slightly limited electronically until 2000 mile break in procedure is accomplished... i sure hope that this is true...

at least no more embarrassing white smoke on start up... it used to fill the entire garage and people would walk up to me to ask me what was wrong with my car...

I drove the original engine for 598 miles before the stop driving order was issued, so i am pretty sure the difference i note is real... i really hope it does get better, right now feels very similar to my carrera S... 

Strange, most that have gotten their cars back claim the car is louder starting at 3000 RPM's. You may have a problem with your car/engine. Have you listen to the video I posted above?

New hashtag on twitter related to GT3 #porschequalitynightmare

nberry:

ag23:

Got my car back yesterday... drove it for 76 miles... feels different....

before it was more raw, louder with more rattles...

now quieter, does not feel as potent as before, not as eager to rev, keep in mind i am following a very strict warm up procedure and not going over 5 k revs,  dealer says that probably engine is slightly limited electronically until 2000 mile break in procedure is accomplished... i sure hope that this is true...

at least no more embarrassing white smoke on start up... it used to fill the entire garage and people would walk up to me to ask me what was wrong with my car...

I drove the original engine for 598 miles before the stop driving order was issued, so i am pretty sure the difference i note is real... i really hope it does get better, right now feels very similar to my carrera S... 

Strange, most that have gotten their cars back claim the car is louder starting at 3000 RPM's. You may have a problem with your car/engine. Have you listen to the video I posted above?

Mine starts to sound loud at 3500 rpm,  another strange thing, I have not seen the blue light turn on in the cluster display during warm up... Do you think that this is normal?

It is strange. Blue light is a must during warm up period on all 991 GT3s with new engines and on all newly produced 991 GT3s.

Check ASAP with your dealer what is going on?

My guess is if you arent seeing the blue light and experiencing the side valves opening up earlier on sports exhaust mode then its possible the software updates have not been applied or the adaptation has not correctly occured. My car is an early build ROW and they needed to do over 130km of run in testing to get the new software patches to successfully optomise. I am not certain of the details in my particular instance but I believe they had to load updates in a particular sequence to get them to graft correctly. I have heard of a few other early build ROW cars that needed extended adaptation by the dealer after new engine install to achieve successful outcome.... Just a thought....

Check oil as well regularly .....

ag23:

Got my car back yesterday... drove it for 76 miles... feels different....

before it was more raw, louder with more rattles...

now quieter, does not feel as potent as before, not as eager to rev, keep in mind i am following a very strict warm up procedure and not going over 5 k revs,  dealer says that probably engine is slightly limited electronically until 2000 mile break in procedure is accomplished... i sure hope that this is true...

at least no more embarrassing white smoke on start up... it used to fill the entire garage and people would walk up to me to ask me what was wrong with my car...

I drove the original engine for 598 miles before the stop driving order was issued, so i am pretty sure the difference i note is real... i really hope it does get better, right now feels very similar to my carrera S... 

I have had the exact same experience! It is more quite when starts up. Also it makes less sound than before. It is such a shame.

When I called the dealership they said it hasn't changed. Honestly I know they don't even have a clue something has changed.

I am SURE quite some things have changed. I drove the car from december '13  2900 kilometers before engine replacement. It was winter time so I didn't really mind that coldstart with smoke because it is always like that with temperature around 0° degrees Celcius. But the sound was amazing! 

After I got my car back(end of may) the first thing I immediately noticed it sounds less loud! Less 'special' . These noises you used to hear when you started up are gone. Also the noise when you accelerated, it used to make more noise when the sport exhaust was activated and the exhaust  'popped open' at 4000rpm. Now that 'pop' is slightly lower but it sounds not as special. The pop is not a sudden 'POP' anymore. 

 I know for sure. I did already 5000+ km's on the new engine alone so I guess it isn't going to change for the good anymore either.

Personally I am seriously considering a replacement for my muffler.  I really need more sound on low revs. It does sounds good at idle, but from that first push on the gas pedal until the +/-3800RPM it sounds just plain stupid IMHO! And when you drive in normal traffic that is the rev range were you are.  

Why did they change it

The cold start blue icon does not light up every time I start. Only when the engine is cold.(stored in a garage 15°C) When it is a little warmer it doesn't light up.

Looking forward to more impressions on the old VS new engine characteristics. 

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

I think Porsche should clarify fast if/why the sound has changed or not and they also should clarify when/if the blue light comes on or not. Every day they do not clarify is a day lost to satisfy customers. I get it, the dealers should do it but we and even Porsche know very well that many dealers are not up to the (simple?) task.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Cars in the US have not had the same problem with the replacement engines. Many think it is better than the original. Could be because Porsche gave Europeans more in compensation they got less with the new engine.