KresoF1:
Car is on street tires.
0-100km/h 4.2s
0-200km/h 13.7s
So, it is faster then 991 CS for example.
Actually, HvS prised M4 as high as possible.
Pretty good for 60% the price of the 991S (with 7% Euro Delivery Discount for US buyers) and real back seats.
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
KresoF1:
Car is on street tires.
0-100km/h 4.2s
0-200km/h 13.7s
So, it is faster then 991 CS for example.
Actually, HvS prised M4 as high as possible.
Maybe I am wrong but I thought the 997.2 CS PDK laps the Ring in 7.50 and the 991 CS PDK in 7.39. Both on street tires.
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White
Those are of course factory times and not HvS times. So maybe I am comparing apples and oranges.
In any case, HvS lapped the Ring in 7:52 with a Panamera Turbo S. Is the M4 time still impressive?
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White
bluelines:
KresoF1:
Car is on street tires.
0-100km/h 4.2s
0-200km/h 13.7s
So, it is faster then 991 CS for example.
Actually, HvS prised M4 as high as possible.
Maybe I am wrong but I thought the 997.2 CS PDK laps the Ring in 7.50 and the 991 CS PDK in 7.39. Both on street tires.
The 997.2 lap was on Cup tyres, estimated at 7sec difference in lap time.
"Form follows function"
bluelines:
Those are of course factory times and not HvS times. So maybe I am comparing apples and oranges.
In any case, HvS lapped the Ring in 7:52 with a Panamera Turbo S. Is the M4 time still impressive?
Well the M4 costs 1/3 of the PTS and seats the same number of occupants in similar comfort - so I would say that's a good result to match it.
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
Grant:
bluelines:
Those are of course factory times and not HvS times. So maybe I am comparing apples and oranges.
In any case, HvS lapped the Ring in 7:52 with a Panamera Turbo S. Is the M4 time still impressive?
Well the M4 costs a small fraction of the PTS and seats the same number of occupants in similar comfort - so I would say that's a good result to match it.
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
So does the Cadillac CTS V?
SciFrog:
Grant:
bluelines:
Those are of course factory times and not HvS times. So maybe I am comparing apples and oranges.
In any case, HvS lapped the Ring in 7:52 with a Panamera Turbo S. Is the M4 time still impressive?
Well the M4 costs a small fraction of the PTS and seats the same number of occupants in similar comfort - so I would say that's a good result to match it.
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
So does the Cadillac CTS V?
CTS-V is slower on the Ring and costs more than M4 though (until next generation comes with big twin-turbo V8).
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
Jun 12, 2014 4:49:03 PM
Jun 12, 2014 4:52:18 PM
JoeRockhead:
991 GT3 SA Hockenheim time was 1:09,6 so I think the M4 time is pretty impressive.
Well 3.2 sec on such a short track is an eternity, but at least some of that is due to the Cup tires on the GT3.
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
Jun 12, 2014 4:55:44 PM
KresoF1:
So, on the autobahn 991CS will be spanked with sporty mide size coupe... €50K less in Germany with same equipment as well...
This is not unusual - pretty common that the M3 is faster than the 911 going back 20 years to the E36 vs. 993 comparison for much less money. 911 has only won on subjective performance.
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
KresoF1:
To add 991CS is equiped with SPASM/PDCC.
Also in 0-250km/h new M4 is more then 1.5s faster then 991CS.
So, on the autobahn 991CS will be spanked with sporty mide size coupe... €50K less in Germany with same equipment as well...
Can the speed limit be lifted by BMW? Officially it is 250km/h?
"Form follows function"
Jun 12, 2014 9:52:46 PM
JoeRockhead:
991 C2S SA Supertest times: (with PDK, PCCB, PASM, and Pirelli P Zero tires)
NS: 7:44 min
Kreso, I don't get what we argue about. In the SuperTest the 991 is 8 seconds faster, with almost identical power to weight ratio, but the 991 has far less torque than the M4. Hence I had expected more from the M4, especially since BMW have been sending so strong messages about the new M4 being a more track oriented car than before.
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White
The M4 is actually a supped up 4 series BMW and we all know that. So I'm not surprised the M4 isn't the track car. However, does it really matter? At the M4's price tag, the track performance isn't really that important and I am pretty sure that M GmbH is working on updates, upgrades and optional features at additional cost, so stay tuned.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)
RC:
The M4 is actually a supped up 4 series BMW and we all know that. So I'm not surprised the M4 isn't the track car. However, does it really matter? At the M4's price tag, the track performance isn't really that important and I am pretty sure that M GmbH is working on updates, upgrades and optional features at additional cost, so stay tuned.
My expectations were based on leaked material and official BMW videos from testing on the Ring with the low weight, the powerful engine, the sharp handling, the track performance, etc. I really got the feeling that BMW was back, for the track. That is why I thought that the time really matters.
I am pretty sure they will come with upgrades too. Hopefully even a worthy CSL successor. The last proper sports car BMW M managed to build IMHO.
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White
Figures always tell a part of the story. Especiially straight line numbers. For some these statistics are very significant for others pointless.
Otherwise, some time ago everybody would have bought a GT-R, instead of Ferrari and the 997 Turbos would be piling up unwanted, in warehousing yards.
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"Form follows function"
997 Turbos are piling up on eBay. $60-70K for one nowadays.
M4 numbers look pretty good, but at the end of the day it's just a BMW with a bit more aggressive looks. I'd probably look for a 997 Turbo for the price of an M4, assuming I didn't need extra space.
I think BMW M cars are great cars for people who like BMW M cars. BIt pricey for something not that cool though IMO.
reginos:
Figures always tell a part of the story. Especiially straight line numbers. For some these statistics are very significant for others pointless.
Otherwise, some time ago everybody would have bought a GT-R, instead of Ferrari and the 997 Turbos would be piling up unwanted, in warehousing yards.
--
"Form follows function"
I do not think that 991 CS is actual competitor for M4. IMO it is Cayman GTS. Now, for almost the same money as Cayman GTS you can get M4. Call me crazy, but I would take M4.
reginos:
Figures always tell a part of the story. Especiially straight line numbers. For some these statistics are very significant for others pointless.
Absolutely. I find lap times interesting because they tell a lot about the handling of the car. Straight line numbers are less interesting to me.
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White
KresoF1:
I do not think that 991 CS is actual competitor for M4. IMO it is Cayman GTS. Now, for almost the same money as Cayman GTS you can get M4. Call me crazy, but I would take M4.
A reasonable/rational person would choose the M4 (430hp+ / 550Nm+) for $65k, not to mention what it will do with minor mods being a turbocharged car with a high rev limiter vs 911 CS 400hp / 440Nm for $105k before adding tons of options
When I owned BMWs in the '90s Roundel always had features comparing the M3 to the 911 and sometimes a Ferrari was thrown in. Not sure I've ever seen a Pano that featured a Porsche in comparison to any BMW but I could be wrong. Porsche seems to aspirational for BMW owners but it does not seem to be reciprocal, objective measurements nothwithstanding.
"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you" Churchill