Crown

RC, I see that you are leaning more towards American made cars 

I am wondering how the car handling is.  The standard Challenger doesn't have a good reputation as far as handling perhaps this SRT Hellcat is different.  I am sure you'll get one so let us know  .

TomSilver:

I love the bad guy look of that hellcat thing. And the sound... omg.

If I had the garage space, I would buy one. In black.

 This is exactly the thing: These (US) cars aren't expensive at all and they really perform. I think Americans should give their (new) "muscle cars" a little bit more credit. After owning a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT for almost four months now, I really think that US cars have improved a lot.

I was thinking about getting a Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby as a fun car (my son misses the Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe I owned) but I don't have the garage space for it. 

In 30 months, a couple of (car) decisions need to be made and I am seriously thinking about getting a Cayenne Turbo/S as a family car and a Hellcat or something similar as a weekend fun car. The 991 Turbo S is great but it actually has a tiny problem: There is no "adversary", I have killed practically everything I "met" on the road, so it starts to get boring.  On a more serious note: I have to reduce my car cost, especially for my weekend fun car and the 991 Turbo S really is an issue here, even if I love it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

The interior quality of the current Ford Mustang is very poor, just like the Camaro. And I mean as poor as a very cheap Korean car. Maybe it's better to wait for the new one. Big chance they've done a batter job there. The current Challenger is better than Camaro or Mustang in terms of quality feel, although not by that much, but looking at the pictures of the new one, they really have done a good job.

i can really understand why the 991 can get boring after a while and also too expensive when it's just a weekend toy.  The TTS is the ultimate daily driver and in that aspect, I don't there's a car that can beat it, but as a weekend toy.... i don't know. That's exactly the point why I didn't order one. You can have almost equal or maybe even more fun with a cheaper car. The 991 Turbo S is absolutely a fabulous car, but IMO not worth the money if it is only used as a weekend toy.

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

If the turbo gets boring, why not go for a GT3?
It may not have the same peformance, but I think it might be more exciting?
Like in some cars it is more funny to do 100 than it is in other cars to do 200. Or are you more drive by absolute performance/comparison to other cars than by emotion and feeling?

Joost:

If the turbo gets boring, why not go for a GT3?
It may not have the same peformance, but I think it might be more exciting?
Like in some cars it is more funny to do 100 than it is in other cars to do 200. Or are you more drive by absolute performance/comparison to other cars than by emotion and feeling?

The Turbo S gets (sometimes) boring as a weekend fun car, simply because it is too perfect and...don't laugh...too fast. I don't want to get into details but when you exit an Autobahn ramp at 150 kph and don't even take a sweat, you get my point. There is no (real) competition on the road.  The GT3 would be interesting but still too expensive for a weekend toy, unless I would track race it. I usually get to drive on the track once or twice per year, not much time left I'm afraid, the family has priority. So a "muscle car" could be more fun, it is slower but would provide more involvement and sound (emotions), so it wouldn't require very high speeds to have fun in it. 

The 991 Turbo S is the perfect daily driver, indeed but for a weekend toy car, it is almost too tame: I'm afraid the GT3 wouldn't be much different, these cars got too refined, too perfect, almost too perfect. Also way too fast for public roads, I always have to pay attention to keep my driver's license.

Yes, I have a lot of fun being fast (or even the fastest) but in the end, I actually enjoy myself alone without any "challenge", so this is kind of boring sometimes (not always though). To experience the limits of the 991 Turbo S, I would need to be on the track, it is impossible on public roads. Another "downside" if you want to enjoy yourself.

The biggest problem with my 991 Turbo S is however that I barely get to drive it. So from a cost point of view, this car doesn't make much sense but I knew it before. 

So now I have the Jeep SRT as a family car, which I really use often but maybe I will switch it the other way around...the Cayenne Turbo/S (next gen) as a family car and a US sports car as a weekend fun car for very little money.

Lots of thoughts, not sure I am going to do it. I'm afraid that when Porsche puts the "960" on the market, the itching starts again. 

Well...I have aprox. 30 months to decide and no, don't worry...no new car for me for the next 30 months. Right now, I still love my 991 Turbo S more than anything out there on the market, unless I could afford a car like the 918 or even the LaFerrari (Futch loves his car).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

SuzyF:

The interior quality of the current Ford Mustang is very poor, just like the Camaro. And I mean as poor as a very cheap Korean car. Maybe it's better to wait for the new one. Big chance they've done a batter job there. The current Challenger is better than Camaro or Mustang in terms of quality feel, although not by that much, but looking at the pictures of the new one, they really have done a good job.

This is true but they are getting better. The next Mustang generation already got some praise.

i can really understand why the 991 can get boring after a while and also too expensive when it's just a weekend toy.  The TTS is the ultimate daily driver and in that aspect, I don't there's a car that can beat it, but as a weekend toy.... i don't know. That's exactly the point why I didn't order one. You can have almost equal or maybe even more fun with a cheaper car. The 991 Turbo S is absolutely a fabulous car, but IMO not worth the money if it is only used as a weekend toy.

This is exactly my "problem". This car is insanely fast but since I get to drive it on public roads only most of the time, I'm not taking a sweat in it. Even then, I have to worry about my driver's license.  The Jeep SRT is already fun because it sounds amazing and nobody actually expects that kind of performance from a Jeep. Of course this isn't comparable but you get the point. 

The Challenger SRT Hellcat would cost around 70k EUR, this is 1/3 of the cost of the 991 Turbo S and according to rumors, the Challenger SRT Hellcat needs under 20 seconds from 200 to 300 kph. This is 991 Turbo S territory. Very tempting. For 1/3 of the cost, the Challenger would be more "acceptable" as a weekend fun car and I could spend more money for my daily (family) driver, the Cayenne Turbo/S.

Oh well...maybe I go for the next Turbo S or the "960" and get the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT with Hellcat engine (expected in two years or so) as a family car and daily driver. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Ron (Houston):

RC, I see that you are leaning more towards American made cars 

I am wondering how the car handling is.  The standard Challenger doesn't have a good reputation as far as handling perhaps this SRT Hellcat is different.  I am sure you'll get one so let us know  .

Not really but some US models have become interesting: The Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby (even more the Super Snake and "1000" versions), the Camaro ZL1/Z28, the Corvette C7 Z06, the Challenger SRT Hellcat... Compared to Porsche, their prices are very interesting and the quality isn't bad at all. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Christian,

I've been on this forum since 2006 and can't believe how your views about American cars have changed (for the better) - good for you!  Nothing like big ass V8's with a bark! For those of us who grew up with muscle cars in the late 60's and early 70's, this resurgence is welcome.  Sometimes too much sophistication can make a vehicle boring. While good for a daily driver, not always a positive for a weekend toy.

Saw the new Z06 at the New York auto show and it looks very appealing - especially the gun metal color. Looks MUCH better in person than in the pictures. Great value IMO. Yes, not for most on this forum. I think you will like it. Would love to own one. We'll see……..

Compared to Porsche, all of these cars will have traction issues, but that isn't a factor for me. 

The new Challenger Hellcat will be a monster, for little $$$. Saw a really nice black Hemi Challenger recently, with a Shaker hood and aftermarket rims which looked really nice - brought back many memories. These new remakes have more power, handle much better and stop on a dime. They burn less gas and cost less than a well restored original. And you need not worry about mileage, as you would on a well restored one. No complaints here.

Think about this. A Hellcat is roughly the same price as a Boxster GTS  but has 300 more hp and a better warranty.

I think its great that we still have such a variety of interesting cars to choose from at reasonable price points. I feel a little sadness when I see people merely using a car as a means to commute. Enjoying a drive can be a big part of my day as it breaks up the monotony of work.

I wonder what other things in life I might enjoy more if I took the effort to learn a little more about them?

Did you guys see the youtube revving video? Sounds pretty sweet, that's for sure. Still looks lame unfortunately.

Exhaust note ... sweet 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

JimFlat6:

Think about this. A Hellcat is roughly the same price as a Boxster GTS  but has 300 more hp and a better warranty.

This is exactly my point. I wouldn't get a Challenger SRT Hellcat instead of a 991 Turbo S or Huracan or whatever but it is good to know that there are some fun cars out there which are not only affordable but fast as hell too. US car manufacturers have learned a lot over the past couple of years, quality has improved and they started to understand the value of quality suppliers. Look at the brake system on my Jeep SRT for example: It is from Brembo. The Jeep weights 2.5 tons and so far, I haven't encountered any brake fading or any other flaws regarding the brake. Very unusual for a US car and I am talking about speeds way over 150 mph. Same goes to the 8 speed auto tranny from ZF, one of the most modern automatic gearboxes available on the market right now. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

JimFlat6:

Think about this. A Hellcat is roughly the same price as a Boxster GTS  but has 300 more hp and a better warranty.

I would never get the Dodge instead of a Boxster.... Those are completely different vehicles. Boxster is still a lot more fun than the Dodge, but the Dodge has a different appeal.

I would probably never go for this Hellcat version BTW. A "normal" SRT8 with 475hp is more than enough. Completely pointless to have 600+ hp in a car like that. 

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

SuzyF:

I would never get the Dodge instead of a Boxster.... Those are completely different vehicles. Boxster is still a lot more fun than the Dodge, but the Dodge has a different appeal.

I would probably never go for this Hellcat version BTW. A "normal" SRT8 with 475hp is more than enough. Completely pointless to have 600+ hp in a car like that. 

Actually, my Jeep GC SRT is more fun than the Boxster S and you should ask my son too. He refuses to drive in the Boxster. The reason is simple: We already have the 991 Turbo S which "kills" almost everything on the road and the Jeep SRT is so much fun because it is different (loud, mean, challenging, a 2.5 t monster). I have been out in the Jeep and the Boxster quite a few times and while the Boxster doesn't get much attention, the Jeep does. A lot. 

The only one really enjoying the Boxster is...my wife. 

As for 600+ hp being pointless in such a car: Please do me the favor and test-drive a Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby. You will change your opinion. I had rented one for a weekend and my son didn't want to get out of it after we brought it back. Had a huge grin on my face, so much fun to go sideways in this beast and have fun with it. This is not a car you want to be as fast as possible in it. This is a car which puts a smile on your face, completely different than many "real" sportscars I drove before. Very similar to the C63 AMG Coupe I owned but much more fun.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Well that 's the big difference RC. I don't see the point of "killing" everything on the road. That's no fun and the easiest thing to do if you want to. I also don't bother about the attention. I don't buy a car for other people to enjoy... I buy a car for myself to enjoy.

As a weekend car, I want a car that puts a smile on my face. A Jeep Cherokee SRT certainly wouldn't do that. A Challenger SRT probably would, albeit in a different way than a Boxster does.

I like the Jeep and how it looks, but for me that would be just another car for daily use, just like my Audi now is. It's my daily transport and nothing more. For that purpose I want a car to be effortless, comfortable, refined and as economical as possible, without the feeling of an econobox.

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

I actually think US manufacturers could learn a thing or two from their overpriced counterparts across the Pacific. As great as having afford performance is, the experience is usually ruined because the car is just straight up lame in the first place.

When your super high performance car looks exactly like the shit $30,000 one, it doesn't even matter. Exclusiveness is completely lost on American manufacturers. They want the same looking cars to exist at $30K and $100K.

This probably isn't very apparent in Europe due to these cars not being very common there, but in the US all these high-performance American cars are considered lame by those who can afford better.

Seems kinda shallow in some sense, but being unique is a big deal. I wouldn't to see everyone wearing the same outfit as me if I didn't have to, and I don't want to have the same car as everyone else if I don't have to. It's just boring seeing your cool car in shit form on every other corner.

Sell me a $200K Corvette, or another GT40, or a Saleen S7. Give me high-end value, not low-end value.

Hell of an engine - 

I'm not an fan of the challenger, but the engine sounds like very very great for the Jeep SRT. Gosh - I still love that Jeep on every single ride. Hard to imagine having that supercharger on it, too :)

Lars997:

Hell of an engine - 

I'm not an fan of the challenger, but the engine sounds like very very great for the Jeep SRT. Gosh - I still love that Jeep on every single ride. Hard to imagine having that supercharger on it, too :)

 

So true. My dealer told me that in aprox. two to three years, the engine will make it to the Grand Cherokee too, at least this is what he heard from his contacts at Chrysler. Not sure however if this will be the facelift or the next generation. More like in the next generation (2017?).

I love my SRT. Just last weekend, I made a 991 Carrera S Cab driver cry. We both fully accelerated from a stop light and I was almost two car lengths ahead when we hit 80 kph or so. The SRT has no lag from standstill, ZERO, absolutely amazing. You just floor it and there you go. 0-100 kph in 4.4 seconds over and over again. For a 2.5 ton truck, amazing.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Its difficult to beat engine displacement. Porsche used to have the magic to do that, but now their weight, gearing, lag and lack of torque on most of their models makes them seem like strange replica cars from a parallel universe.

It hurts to say this, but the new Mustang GT350 will probably devastate a 991S and not in just a straight line either.

SuzyF:

JimFlat6:

Think about this. A Hellcat is roughly the same price as a Boxster GTS  but has 300 more hp and a better warranty.

I would never get the Dodge instead of a Boxster.... Those are completely different vehicles. Boxster is still a lot more fun than the Dodge, but the Dodge has a different appeal.

+981

I have been thinking. I am still thinking. I am still not getting the point of comparing these cars.

The Hellcat is Dodge's answer to McDonalds "Super Size Me" menu. If feeling (over)full is your only requirement for a meal, then this menu is appealing.

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

I think you are missing the point. The engine in my Jeep SRT is superb, much better in any way (throttle response, pull, everything) than the Boxster S engine. Yes, the Boxster S has more of a go-kart feel compared to a C63 AMG Coupe for example, which has a 6.2 l N/A engine but if you ask me, the C63 AMG Coupe is much more fun than the Boxster. To each his own I guess.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

No, that is exactly my point  If you want gigantic HP and a loud exhaust, then go "super sized" Dodge.

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

RC:

I think you are missing the point. The engine in my Jeep SRT is superb, much better in any way (throttle response, pull, everything) than the Boxster S engine. Yes, the Boxster S has more of a go-kart feel compared to a C63 AMG Coupe for example, which has a 6.2 l N/A engine but if you ask me, the C63 AMG Coupe is much more fun than the Boxster. To each his own I guess.

I just think it's a different way of having fun with a car. I know the engine in your SRT very well (although my experience with it is in a Challenger), but it's definitely not a better engine than the flat 6 in the Boxster. It is different. You just can't compare them with each other. The flat 6 needs to be revved to extract the power, where the V8 provides a lot of torque. Both are very nice engines but completely different in setup. The V8 wouldn't suit a Boxster and vice versa.

Then there is the difference in what we like in a car. You get your satisfaction from powerful engines and the speed. I get my satisfaction from a car that makes me feel good. The thing I like most is driving up and down a beautiful mountain pass like Furkapass of Gotthard for example. Don't need a 600hp brute to do that... In fact... i am almost 100% sure that  i can get more satisfaction from a 45 year old classic sportscar with only 200hp or even less, driving on a beautiful route, than a 600hp modern supercar. It's just a differrent way of enjoying a car. None is better or worse. Everyone has a different view on that.

However, the Challenger makes me smile because it's a true revival of an old American muscle car and in the environment where I got to drive it, it felt superb. The burble of the big V8, cruising across the desert or the through Californian hills. It just felt right. I wouldn't want a Boxster on that trip.... For me it's more than just the car. It's the whole experience and romance of the occasion.

Like you said... To each their own. It's a good thing that there are many different views. It would be a boring world if we'd all like the same things. 

Suzy

2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
 

Are you kidding? Especially the passes are fun to drive with power monsters. I can cruise at age 70...in a Mercedes SL.   Of course it is a good thing that there are different views. If we all would agree, I would fall asleep. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Are you kidding?  That thing would tip over in the first alpine hairpin. Assuming it actually can get traction and not spin around it's own axis... and then tip over, in a cloud of tire smoke 

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

He is a Scotsman doing the Stelvio in a slower  2009 Challenger srt. Amazingly it didn't hurl itself off the side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh7Qql9eVDs

JimFlat6:

He is a Scotsman doing the Stelvio in a slower  2009 Challenger srt. Amazingly it didn't hurl itself off the side.

Those Scots  Nice vid. 

I can't help it, but that car looks hopelessly out of place on that narrow alp road. Like a hippo trying to make it's way out of a maze. 

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Hippo size parking is not too common on the Continent either...

Whatever, the Hellcat exists and they will soon be near you, LOL.

The new 2015 Mustang GT350 is a smaller, better handling GT car than a Challenger. It will probably have a NA 520hp /high redline-maybe 7800rpm- and weigh 400lbs less than a Challenger SRT . Fords is serious about their new Mustangs and spent a small fortune on a soiphisticated new chassis and suspension design to help sell them world wide. Even thier new "Voodoo" V8 motor was a joint US -German development  and prototyping involving Roush and Mahle so that it wont grenade on the Abahn. Time and technology moves o

bluelines:

Are you kidding?  That thing would tip over in the first alpine hairpin. Assuming it actually can get traction and not spin around it's own axis... and then tip over, in a cloud of tire smoke 

I have a couple of friends with cars and power way beyond 500 hp who love it to drive on those hairpin alpine roads (there is a nice photo atlas actually showing off all these roads, nice for planning trips) and I never heard they had any issues. Especially with a powerful car, it can be so much fun because it isn't always that easy to put all that power on the road. You would be surprised how fast these guys are (I have a wife and kids and wouldn't dream of driving that fast on those roads and I can drive). Power may not be everything but it is a lot of fun. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)