Crown

Congrats to this British Beast, This color suits the car just perfectly.   which showroom is it, Denzel Erdberg? 

From my perspective the 650S is much better looking than the base 12C......

Now to talk about ugly......the LaFerrari  in the "Kimi spin-out" YouTube video really looks bad.....to see it in motion does not do it justice!!

964C2:

From my perspective the 650S is much better looking than the base 12C......

And supposedly is dynamically better in every metric and significantly more connected feeling and fun to drive.  Sounds like a winner - hope it lives up to it.

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

964C2:

From my perspective the 650S is much better looking than the base 12C......

And supposedly is dynamically better in every metric and significantly more connected feeling and fun to drive.  Sounds like a winner - hope it lives up to it.

I had a relatively short drive in the 650S Spider today. To me it is a meaningful improvement over the 12C in all respects. The front end looks very  striking in person. There is noticeably more torque at the lower end, and the rate at which the car accelerates is astonishing. All of this is done with a minimum of fuss. I went on to the motorway from a usual slip road and was doing 120mph almost in the blink of an eye. The gear changes are significantly improved, and in particular there was non of the jerkiness at low speed that dogged the 12C. The suspension has the characteristic McLaren floaty feel, but is taught in corners, the car remains flat and planted with no body roll. The carbon tub is a significant advantage. The standard ceramic brakes are improved, but still do not feel as precise to me  as those in a Ferrari. All in all an outstanding package of looks, everyday usability , and performance. Mine will be in Tarocco Orange.

Thanks for the review!  BTW, the price in the USA of 650S is supposedly $265k - fairly modest increase over the 12C.  12C resale prices have fallen quite a bit and you can now buy a low-mile 12C for ~$100k less than original MRSP.

The 911-rival P13 is due in 2015 and is supposed to cost $160k in the US - will be interesting to see the specs.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

If I was a 12c owner right now I won't be a happy bunny...

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....

Except me haha. Trading in my 12C for my 918, and the trade in price has already been put on paper.....................

Thanks for the info Crayphile. I'm going to try and drive one this Spring when I'm back in town and when I take the 12C in for service.

I don't think I'll upgrade  given the probably $100K I'd have to cough up on top of my car, but will consider one in the future. I'm not sure if I hope it depreciates just as much or not lol.

Hope you don't mind, but I quoted you over on ML in the 650S driving impressions thread. Lot of interested parties there, I'm sure.

Whoopsy:

Except me haha. Trading in my 12C for my 918, and the trade in price has already been put on paper.....................

Care to share what you got for it? I know prices are a bit higher in Canada, but still curious.

hunterone:

pulled the trigger today on an discounted 2013 12C Spider with 4500km after seeing the pictures  List price 330k € and got it for 235k €. I take delivery in April when my 997 Turbo lease is running out.

Congrats  best color for this car.

J.Seven

crayphile:

Grant:

964C2:

From my perspective the 650S is much better looking than the base 12C......

And supposedly is dynamically better in every metric and significantly more connected feeling and fun to drive.  Sounds like a winner - hope it lives up to it.

I had a relatively short drive in the 650S Spider today. To me it is a meaningful improvement over the 12C in all respects. The front end looks very  striking in person. There is noticeably more torque at the lower end, and the rate at which the car accelerates is astonishing. All of this is done with a minimum of fuss. I went on to the motorway from a usual slip road and was doing 120mph almost in the blink of an eye. The gear changes are significantly improved, and in particular there was non of the jerkiness at low speed that dogged the 12C. The suspension has the characteristic McLaren floaty feel, but is taught in corners, the car remains flat and planted with no body roll. The carbon tub is a significant advantage. The standard ceramic brakes are improved, but still do not feel as precise to me  as those in a Ferrari. All in all an outstanding package of looks, everyday usability , and performance. Mine will be in Tarocco Orange.

Congrats on your new toy  are you going to change the 458 for 650S ? I´ve seen the 650S and it´s much better looking than 12C, now finally this car has some exotic flavor design wise, I like it very much but Huracan would be my choice in this segment, even if it´s slower than 650S this new Lambo is really impressive in all aspects.! I really don´t understand McLaren strategy, with this model they left 12C & P1 owners frustrated!

J.Seven

So, is the the 650S a new model in parallel with the 12C or a replacement? A hasty replacement I would say.

Styling wise, although I never found the 12C to be good looking for a supercar, at least it was a coherent design. The 650S looks like a collage of conflicting styles and forms. The P1 front (too a avant garde) for example doesn't go with the fluted upper rear (too old fashioned). And the new side intakes look like a disguise for the huge gaps and do not blend with the overall design.

However, I respect the people who go against the current and choose McLaren instead of the established supercar brands. 

"Form follows function"

J.Seven:

 

Congrats on your new toy  are you going to change the 458 for 650S ? I´ve seen the 650S and it´s much better looking than 12C, now finally this car has some exotic flavor design wise, I like it very much but Huracan would be my choice in this segment, even if it´s slower than 650S this new Lambo is really impressive in all aspects.! I really don´t understand McLaren strategy, with this model they left 12C & P1 owners frustrated!

Yes  that is correct - the 458 Spider will go to make room for the 650S which I think is a far better all-round package. I like the Huracan too 

Please let us know what you think of 650s vs F12...speed wise and else..

crayphile:

J.Seven:

 

Congrats on your new toy  are you going to change the 458 for 650S ? I´ve seen the 650S and it´s much better looking than 12C, now finally this car has some exotic flavor design wise, I like it very much but Huracan would be my choice in this segment, even if it´s slower than 650S this new Lambo is really impressive in all aspects.! I really don´t understand McLaren strategy, with this model they left 12C & P1 owners frustrated!

Yes  that is correct - the 458 Spider will go to make room for the 650S which I think is a far better all-round package. I like the Huracan too 

First of all congrats on the 650S, it´s a beautiful car. What made you go for the 650S instead of Huracan? Performance?

J.Seven

You like the 650S better than the 458 Spider or is it you can make a tidy profit on the 458?

I agree with you. 650S is an amazing car and most probably the best sportscar overall in its class(Huracan, 458 Speciale and 991 Turbo S).

Just got official brochure and specs are amazing.

0-100km/h: 3.0s

0-200km/h: 8.4s

0-300km/h:25.4s

650S v Huracan v 458 v TTS reviews will be interesting. 650S probably will clearly win stats wise. 

Right now I would pick the Huracan from personal preference for my event car. My TTS would stay as my DD sports car.

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....

For whatever reason, the resale values of McLaren's have not held up. Typically  they suffer huge depreciation. 

J.Seven:

First of all congrats on the 650S, it´s a beautiful car. What made you go for the 650S instead of Huracan? Performance?

They are very different cars  - V8 turbo RWD vs V10 four wheel drive. I plan on getting the Huracan as well. I will get to drive it at Monza in early June.

nberry:

You like the 650S better than the 458 Spider or is it you can make a tidy profit on the 458?

The profit on used Ferrari V8s is very much a US phenomenon - here in the UK we only lose money on them!

Got to drive this car briefly on the weekend. It is SO fast!!! It's got slightly more power than the 12C, but it feels a quite a degree faster!

There is more turbo lag on the lower RPM's, but on 6k+ RPM it's just insane. Pulls as hard as a Turbo S even though it's RWD only. Never felt a RWD car with this much pull. The ride is also far more compliant on this in normal mode. Dead quiet and not clunky as per on the 12C.

In person it also looks amazing. The carbon work on the front bumper is superb. A great value for money car 

Since I had to let go of my 991TTS in Jan.   Over the past few weeks I had to make up my mind of choice between Hurcan and 650S.... After viewing both cars, there is no doubt 650S is a much better suitable car for me.  the new front of 650S is just very settle and very McLaren.   Many comments about the P1 front and 12C back is not suitable to this new breed, I had this doubt before.  However, after viewing this car in real life had washed off my doubts.  P1 front look is just what 12C needed to injected that SuperCar look to complete the final finishing..  Now McLaren has its fixed design language of the front!!  Lets think about it for a moment; If there had not been a P1, would people still think its an unbalanced looking car??, so why is it that P1 comes before 650S all of the sudden people commented the car looks "unbalanced"?  If Porsche decided to put 918 front into 911, would you think its unbalanced?  oh wait.... 918 does somewhat looks similar to 991 doesn't it?  haha!!  Yot got to see this thing is real life to grasp the design is absoluty amazing!!  Since I've always been a Porsch guy, I think step up to McLaren is just a normal "upgrade" I suppose...  settled "supercar" look and amazing figures.... 

Hurcan is a very nice car indeed and this engine will probably be the world's last V10 exist in next 5years before they take it out of the production line....  compared with tech. figures, Hurcan is just not a very re-freshed car at all, given them 10 years to re-do this car, they should have put in a lot more into the tech. innovation.  Sure the design is re-freshed and interior cluster is eye-catching, but they should have put in a lot more functional tech. behind the car instead another "very nice looking A-vent-A-door look"......  Don't get me wrong here, its still very nice, I just expected more for 10 years of waiting.... instead of wasting their research department of making "100 special limited versions" of Gallardosssss....      Also, another big factor is the look of Hurcan is screaming for staring, and that is something I am trying to avoid!  Eventhough 650S will certainly get a lot of looks as well, but I must say 650S is a much settled car in appearance than Hurcan, and TTS is certainly a perfection in this aspect!.... 

Both car cost very much the same: US$530,000 (Hurcan a little less US$500,000).  McLaren is a brand which has a lot more value as compared to Lambo.  Comming from Porsche brand now makes huge numbers of SUVs, I must say McLaren is a brand that I would pay a lot of money buying into.  Spending US$340,000 on my TTS and driving along with a US$90,000 Macan just makes me annoyed!   I think Porsche Brand had washed/ diluted their brand, although they are making a lot of money from these SUVs, but few years down if they are trying to sell their 911 TTS with US$340,000 or more is going to be very difficult, its not because the car is not great!  I still love 911s, just that its not something someone would wish to own since the brand is not soo special anymore.  You see Porsche every day on every block of the road!!! People will pay more for the brand value, That is why Ferrari still not yet decide to go after SUVs,   

Finally order placed last week and hopefully I will have it in Early October.

@huangester: From your extended justification above, I can see that you thought a lot about this car and you made the best choice for you. So congratulations.

What is your chosen colour?

Just a question. If there weren't the "huge numbers" of SUVs would you have stuck with the Porsche Turbo S?

"Form follows function"

reginos:

@huangester: From your extended justification above, I can see that you thought a lot about this car and you made the best choice for you. So congratulations.

What is your chosen colour?

Just a question. If there weren't the "huge numbers" of SUVs would you have stuck with the Porsche Turbo S?

I think that huangester is looking for something more flashy. The typical 911 Turbo driver usually wants to attract less attention than other sports car drivers. Unfortunately, the stealth design kind of contradicts the price tag, I get that. This is why Porsche needs to improve the interior and performance. I said this over and over again but as long as people have no choice (like me...stuck in socially "difficult" Germany or with the need of a good all-weather car), I don't think Porsche will try harder. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

reginos:

@huangester: From your extended justification above, I can see that you thought a lot about this car and you made the best choice for you. So congratulations.

What is your chosen colour?

Just a question. If there weren't the "huge numbers" of SUVs would you have stuck with the Porsche Turbo S?

I think that huangester is looking for something more flashy. The typical 911 Turbo driver usually wants to attract less attention than other sports car drivers. Unfortunately, the stealth design kind of contradicts the price tag, I get that. This is why Porsche needs to improve the interior and performance. I said this over and over again but as long as people have no choice (like me...stuck in socially "difficult" Germany or with the need of a good all-weather car), I don't think Porsche will try harder. 

Porsche NEED the 960 to offer an alternative in the "exotic" class. They are losing sales because of this omission.

"Form follows function"

Porsche has lost exlcusivity and even 991TTS drivers would like to have some of it I believe! Not all Lambo or Ferrari drivers are looking for flashiness, many like huangester who were former Porsche owners and now want to change to Mclaren, used to opt for Porsche due to many reasons being one of them the exclusivity this brand had in the passed. I perfectly understanding him,  McLaren, Lambo or Ferrari still have a glamor and exotic touch no Porsche, apart from 918, can reach. 

J.Seven

J.Seven

Totally agree reginos, Porsche needs an affordable halo car... I could see room in my garage for a 650S spider, but not for a 991 TTS cab... I'd rather have a "regular" 991 S than a turbo for the kind of money the turbo is now... Plus they really are forcing you to buy the TTS because of the option scam Porsche is running... For the US, they can tout performance all they want, ultimately it is not principal driver to close the sale, you can't drive that fast and most people use these cars 3/10s anyway...

Not to mention in the $200k 991 TTS you get the same interior as a $50k Boxster and the same 5xx hp as a ML 63AMG... And 99% of the population cannot distinguish any sort of 911 variant or generation anyway...

Porsche used to be good value, but some models are not anymore. The current 991 turbos, Panamera, Cayman and most Cayenne are just huge profits for Porsche. Yet they introduce the Macan that are good value especially the turbo one. I don't understand their strategy...

I had decided to go with white,since its always my fav colour and that is without upcharge.   If Porsche do not make any SUVs (and they didnt have any engine fire issues as GT3) I would definity keep my 991TTS.  As the car is surperbe!  Any TTS owner would confirm that!!!  Brand value been diluted really makes me having doubts about going back to them for a "true sports car"   However if I wanted to have sedan as Panamera or SUVs, I would still put Porsche as my first priority, or maybe Audi.  Porsche brand had perhaps been "washed down" to as high-end of BMW/Audi to my sense....  RS6 or RS7 is just as nice as Panamera turbo to me......  Porsche made a lot of money on SUVs, but next Facelift TTS certainly will cost more on the current TTS, and can anybody justify their cost when u pulled up on a stop light with a Macan, a kid pointed to both cars said they are both Porsches!!!  I would not feel soo special after that.....

huangester:

I had decided to go with white,since its always my fav colour and that is without upcharge.   If Porsche do not make any SUVs (and they didnt have any engine fire issues as GT3) I would definity keep my 991TTS.  As the car is surperbe!  Any TTS owner would confirm that!!!  Brand value been diluted really makes me having doubts about going back to them for a "true sports car"   However if I wanted to have sedan as Panamera or SUVs, I would still put Porsche as my first priority, or maybe Audi.  Porsche brand had perhaps been "washed down" to as high-end of BMW/Audi to my sense....  RS6 or RS7 is just as nice as Panamera turbo to me......  Porsche made a lot of money on SUVs, but next Facelift TTS certainly will cost more on the current TTS, and can anybody justify their cost when u pulled up on a stop light with a Macan, a kid pointed to both cars said they are both Porsches!!!  I would not feel soo special after that.....

 

Each to his own, I would not care what the kid thought.The 911 Turbo is an iconic car, and for a very good reason, perhaps your point is more related how high they can push the price point.