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Re: 918 latest news
I guess some think there should be an asterisk next to the 918 Ring time.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304475004579276273923452640
Re: 918 latest news
nberry:
I guess some think there should be an asterisk next to the 918 Ring time.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304475004579276273923452640
Based on that sort of "logic", it's likely that any hybrid will need to have an asterisk. Based on that sort of "logic", practically any car will need to have an asterisk, as its tires, brakes, etc. go off and subsequent laps increase in time.
Re: 918 latest news
Wonderbar:
Interesting post from Neil. Some questions:
1. How did he know second lap would be 4 secs slower? Actual time or calculated?
2. I thought the battery was recharged on braking. Why is it totally depleted after the hot lap? When does it get recharged in any event?
Exactly my thoughts... 
Re: 918 latest news
Wonderbar:
Interesting post from Neil. Some questions:
1. How did he know second lap would be 4 secs slower? Actual time or calculated?
2. I thought the battery was recharged on braking. Why is it totally depleted after the hot lap? When does it get recharged in any event?
It's almost certainly calculated (I'm not aware of any published "second lap" time), based on the premise that you would run the entire second lap also in "Hot Lap" mode (where the battery doesn't recharge), with a "dead" battery, so just hauling the weight of the battery and electric motors around for no benefit. But, it's possible you could, by switching to "Race" mode in twisty sections, recover some energy to use in "Hot Lap" mode in straights, and that the overall benefit of this would be positive.
But, the bigger problem with his argument, is that every car is likely to fall off its hot lap performance on subsequent laps, and no one publishes these times anyway, so there's not even a frame of reference to make a second lap time of 7:01 meaningful in context. So, the idea that it should have an asterisk seems more like some other car manufacturer lobbying him to downplay it.
Re: 918 latest news
Read carefully what he trying to say;
Except that it games the Nürburgring record. Project leader Frank Walliser explained to me that in fundamental ways—for example, the size, weight and output of the car's 6.8-kwh, 385-volt lithium battery—the car's systems were purpose-built and scaled precisely to exceed this one number on the Nürburgring's 14-mile Nordschleife track. With the car in "Hot Lap mode," it takes one Nordschleife lap to deplete the battery; after that, the roughly 660 pounds of EV powertrain becomes dead weight. The 918 Hybrid's second lap at the Nürburgring is 4 seconds slower than the first.
This seems to violate a principle of design purity that a machine performs the same through its range of operation. The car is artificially fast on the "Ring." For me, the 918's Nürburgring lap record will always have an asterisk.
Re: 918 latest news
apias:
nberry:
Read carefully what he trying to say;
Right, so what are the second lap times of other cars?
We don't know if other car manufacturer achieved their best times on the first lap. If anything it can be argued that probably they did it on their second or even third lap. They burn fuel and weight during the initial laps. The 918 because of its battery weight issue needs to do it on the first lap to get its best time. He is saying the car was primed for the one lap.
I am not criticizing the 918. I think it is a fabulous car. You need to keep Neil's comments in context. Read his article on the 918 here;
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323595004579066870199429900
Re: 918 latest news
Yes, we agree, we don't have any information about "second laps", so there's absolutely no context which serves to make his comments meaningful. Saying that the 918 was, "primed for the one lap," is begging the question. And, in fact, there's no evidence to support the assertion that the 918, "needs to do it on the first lap to get its best time." It needs to do it with the car set to "Hot Lap" mode, where it holds back nothing, but that's not the same thing at all. That just means that it, like every other car, needs to maximize its performance to achieve its best time. Everyone else who has recorded a 'ring lap time has done everything possible to maximize performance on the timed lap.
The idea that the 918's lap time needs an asterisk but no other car's does, in the context of the article, sounds an awful lot like an idea that a representative of some other car maker put in his head, which he went along with as an act of appeasement. It's not like this is some 2.5 mile road course, it's a nearly 13 mile circuit, and, frankly, it's a bit ludicrous to even assert that optimizing a car for a 13 mile run is somehow "cheating" the benchmark when the optimization is the same performance that every driver will see in real world usage. (This isn't at all like the benchmark cheating that Android phone makers have been caught doing, where the actual CPU performance is boosted just for the benchmarks.)
Re: 918 latest news
All this talk is ridiculous. How many people have an idea how 6:57 or 7:01 min on the Nordschleife feel like, let alone be able to drive it themselves. The "Hot lap" mode does not switch off energy recuperation from the electric motors, only the electric charging via the combustion engine. Furthermore, the system allows the battery to run out of energy in "Race Hybrid" and "Hot Lap" modes.
Re: 918 latest news
On hot lap mode, the engine doesn't charge the batteries, all charging is done via regen braking. Electric motor output is maximum, and the batteries can be depleted.
On Race Hybrid mode, the engine divert some power towards charging in addition to regen braking, electric motor output is also maximum. This is pretty much the mode a McLaren P1 operates in, except the P1 doesn't have regen from braking so their engine has to work harder to charge. But I believe the 918 can drive in this mode forever on the ring and do lap after lap without running out of juice.
So basically, the hot lap mode is the same as a F1 car going out on qualifying, we know they are 'primed' for one lap too. Those cars only run a out lap to get the tires warm, a timed lap and a in lap anyway. Race hybrid mode is the F1 car's race setup. I think it's the same way Porsche ran the Ring too, an out lap to warm the tires and top off the battery, then Hot Lap mode for the timed lap and then a in lap to come back in. Pretty much they only get one try every time.
But unlike a F1 car, the 'qualifying lap' setting is built in, no need to put on special tires or change springs or anything else, it's just a button.
But one thing I know, if Dan Neil wants to put an asterisk, I like it a lot, as long as he mentioned the fact that unlike other cars who run laps after laps to find the fastest time on one go, The 918 do it like the F1 team do, 1 shot deal per go. Other cars' driver can get into a rhythm and correct mistakes on the next lap, the 918 lap don't have that luxury.
And even if he only count the 2nd lap without hot lap mode, 7:01 is still the fastest production car record. Discounting McLaren as they never released a time.
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Re: 918 latest news
Gay.
Why don't we put asterisk next to every world record because the second time it's slower? Oh, you ran the 100m .1 sec slow every time after? Need an asterisk. Oh, you hit 20 home runs fewer the next season? Need an asterisk.
The point of the lap record is that it's a lap. A single lap. Not 2 laps, not 6 laps, not average lap over 24 hours in perfect weather on the first Saturday of October at 65.3 F. It's a lap and you can do whatever you want to achieve it. No car will lap exactly the same time lap after lap. Tires deteriorate, weigh changes with fuel consumption, brakes fade, wind may change direction, and an infinite amount of other things. No two laps are the same, especially not between different cars on different days. If you want to see average lap time over 20 laps, then create a new list and hold every car to it. Don't talk some bullshit about one car not being able to do it lap after lap, and letting all the others slide.
What a retarded comment.
But to have these kind of reflections on black the car needs to be always perfectly clean and waxed .
Dec 29, 2013 11:41:09 AM
- Spyderidol
- Rennteam Master
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Re: 918 latest news
That 918 in black looks fantastic!
I'm still trying to decide what would be the best color on the 918, liquid metal silver, dark blue, solid black or metallic black. I have a March 2015 build for early June delivery.
Spec details that I'm sure of:
Black leather interior with silver pipping, magnesium wheels, all interior carbon fiber package, carbon fiber roof and mirrors (regardless of exterior color)...
Re: 918 latest news
blufoxx:
That 918 in black looks fantastic!
I'm still trying to decide what would be the best color on the 918, liquid metal silver, dark blue, solid black or metallic black. I have a March 2015 build for early June delivery.
Spec details that I'm sure of:
Black leather interior with silver pipping, magnesium wheels, all interior carbon fiber package, carbon fiber roof and mirrors (regardless of exterior color)...
Congrats! This car deserves paint-to-sample and not a standard colour which every 911 or Cayenne got.
I am weak for blue... so I think Riviera, Mexico or Voodoo blue would make this car gorgeous 
--
2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White
Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)
Re: 918 latest news
bluelines:
blufoxx:
That 918 in black looks fantastic!
I'm still trying to decide what would be the best color on the 918, liquid metal silver, dark blue, solid black or metallic black. I have a March 2015 build for early June delivery.
Spec details that I'm sure of:
Black leather interior with silver pipping, magnesium wheels, all interior carbon fiber package, carbon fiber roof and mirrors (regardless of exterior color)...
Congrats! This car deserves paint-to-sample and not a standard colour which every 911 or Cayenne got.
I am weak for blue... so I think Riviera, Mexico or Voodoo blue would make this car gorgeous
Thanks Mate,
This would actually be my first Porsche so I'm not quite familiar with those colors, any chance you may have pictures of any porsche in the mentioned colors.
I wonder if porsche would be agree to do full blue bare carbon.
Cheers!
Re: 918 latest news
blufoxx:Thanks Mate,
This would actually be my first Porsche so I'm not quite familiar with those colors, any chance you may have pictures of any porsche in the mentioned colors.
I wonder if porsche would be agree to do full blue bare carbon.
Cheers!
So, either you hate these or you love 'em 
Riviera Blue:
Mexico Blue:
Voodoo Blue:
Your dealer should have a list of all paint-to-sample colours. I don't know if it applies to the 918 too, but worth checking.
--
2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White
Previous
2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)
Re: 918 latest news
Whoopsy, you must be so psyched! Can imagine the anticipation must be killing you by now!
Great find btw, been looking for black 918 photos for a while. Looks stunning, I take it this strengthens you in your decision?
Cheers Joost
--
Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys
Re: 918 latest news
Joost:
Whoopsy, you must be so psyched! Can imagine the anticipation must be killing you by now!
Great find btw, been looking for black 918 photos for a while. Looks stunning, I take it this strengthens you in your decision?
Cheers Joost
Hard to say. Dark blue metallic almost matches the reflections too. But it's just light enough that the black carbon exterior bits won't disappear so I might have to add all the exterior carbon parts.
--
Re: 918 latest news
Whoopsy:
Joost:
Whoopsy, you must be so psyched! Can imagine the anticipation must be killing you by now!
Great find btw, been looking for black 918 photos for a while. Looks stunning, I take it this strengthens you in your decision?
Cheers Joost
Hard to say. Dark blue metallic almost matches the reflections too. But it's just light enough that the black carbon exterior bits won't disappear so I might have to add all the exterior carbon parts.
Congrats mate! I'm in Toronto btw, maybe we will catch up sometime.
Would love to hear what color you end up going for.
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