Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    yarub1 said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Well well. Amazing trend here. Porsche 997TT, Ferrari F430 and Corvette Z06 all mentioned in the same breath and all so very close in performance.

    Comparing them all, I think Ferrari barely wins the style category, the Porsche wins a special award for desperate mechanical overkill and the Corvette runs off with awards for easiest to maintain and most reliable.



    I must say that I have alot of respect for the Chevy boys; they succeeded bringing the Corvette to the level of Porsche's and Ferrari's performance wise. Not an easy task if you look at the C5.


    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Allright... so if you really want to be fastest round the NBR... buy a Radical SR8 which is the fastest street-legal car around the ring...

    6.55 around the ring... NOW we're talking See Vid:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2990770163894389660

    Btw... Is it only me that think this discussion is pathetic and childish?.. Everyone have their own prefferences and its like politics.. we can go on discussin which car that is best for ages and will never come to consensus... but that's a part of participating in forum discussions so I'll live with that after all ...

    /Lukas

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Nothing wrong with a lively discussion as long as everyone stays civilized.

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    What I am implying is Von Saurma and company Ring times are not indicative of what a car can do. You acknowledge that W. Rohrl will exceed Sport Auto time by a few seconds. What does that tell you? These times are inaccurate, worthless and a waste of time.



    Good...the problem is Porsches are faster than Ferraris in 90% of the magazine tests...not only German magazines of course.

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    What I am implying is Von Saurma and company Ring times are not indicative of what a car can do. You acknowledge that W. Rohrl will exceed Sport Auto time by a few seconds. What does that tell you? These times are inaccurate, worthless and a waste of time.



    Good...the problem is Porsches are faster than Ferraris in 90% of the magazine tests...not only German magazines of course.



    I readily admit that Porsche is faster than Ferrari.... IN BUILDING CARS!

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    What I am implying is Von Saurma and company Ring times are not indicative of what a car can do. You acknowledge that W. Rohrl will exceed Sport Auto time by a few seconds. What does that tell you? These times are inaccurate, worthless and a waste of time.



    Good...the problem is Porsches are faster than Ferraris in 90% of the magazine tests...not only German magazines of course.



    I readily admit that Porsche is faster than Ferrari.... IN BUILDING CARS!



    Nick, just let it go. We are going to like you no matter what, so stop trying to make us hate you

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    So they don't test the GT2, GT3, GT3RS, TT, TT S, C2, C2S, C4, C4S as different cars? (did I leave any out)

    Not too many iterations of the Vette or Ferrari.



    They also test M5, M6, Corvette C5, Ferrari 550, Ferrari 360, F430, F575, Lambo Gallardo, Lambo Murcielago, Koenigsegg, Zonda, etc. etc.

    If you knew sportauto you would have a diferent view. Corvette et al. are really not faster than tested in sportauto. Sorry

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    So they don't test the GT2, GT3, GT3RS, TT, TT S, C2, C2S, C4, C4S as different cars? (did I leave any out)

    Not too many iterations of the Vette or Ferrari.



    They also test M5, M6, Corvette C5, Ferrari 550, Ferrari 360, F430, F575, Lambo Gallardo, Lambo Murcielago, Koenigsegg, Zonda, etc. etc.

    If you knew sportauto you would have a diferent view. Corvette et al. are really not faster than tested in sportauto. Sorry



    I understand that they test many different cars... My point is that the 911 happens to have so many iterations that the many forms don't change much and therefore is a competitive advantage due to familiarity with the method of driving needed.
    The C6 and Z06 are two completely different cars. If SportAuto tested many different variations of the Z06 then I'd say it was a fair test.
    I'm somewhat surprised you didn't understand what I was saying and compared a 550 with a 360 and then a 430.
    How similar is a Carrera S compared to a Carrera?
    How similar is the GT3 to the GT3RS? How similar is the 996 TT to the C4S?
    Would you say the same level of similarity exists between a front-engined Z06 and a M5? If not, then why mention those cars? Does the Ferrari 430 drive like the 550?

    Porsche's rear-engined family is very similar in nature. A 550 is similar to the 575 but then again how often do these models change and how often are they driven by the test driver? If the test driver has equal hours of experience behind ONE 911 variation as he does any given car then that would be fair. Currently this is not the case.

    I know this is an extreme case but would you expect a 997TT tested by a guy that drives 8 variations of a Z06 to be on equal footing? I wouldn't think this situation to be fair either.

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Taken with a grain of salt since its a factory claim but... not bad for a 2+2 seater, with creature conforts, complete active and passive safety elements, efficient and perfroming in all weather and conditions, GT-tourer, practical, reliable, fun, etc... anybody can match that?

    Lets wait till Saurma tests it, that will be the reference time.



    Are you getting one?

    Once again, I ask how can the 997TT time be faster by 14 sec. over the 430 given that the 430 has more hp, performance tires, carbon brakes, F1, in race mode (suspension adjusted for track) and is lighter? If Von Saurma is consistent, he will bring the 997TT in around 7:55(the time must be faster than the 430).

    The manipulation of Ring times by all manufaturers and magazines has become a cottage industry and has reached the shameful stage. Why anyone would take these time seriously is incomprehensible.



    There is a pretty good article on this week's UK Autocar mag about the Turbo.

    The mag is usually consistent with their news and one of the most serious publications on the market IMO.

    The Ring time is confirmed, on sport tyres. RC, you were right once again!

    Of course those tyres, similar to sport pilot cup I presume will be proned to aquaplanning but that's a normal trade of.

    Nick,

    Although I do not have a rigourous answer to your question, Carlos' reply is justified.

    The big ring is not really adapted to Ferrari's racey engine, on the contrary, it has poor road surfaces replicating the kind of curves you'd find on the open road.

    The Turbo's time is substantially better bc if its massive torque, so over one lap, on that track, torque and traction are king.

    Two things though, it doesn't prove which driver will have the most fun, that's up to each of us and secondly, there's the weight issue, leading me to think that over a 10 laps race, I'd be curious to know who would finish first, with similar drivers of course.

    Having said that, neither car is really made for 10 laps non stop full blast!

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Little bit of topic but, there is interesting article on:
    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/...iter.106976.htm
    According to these rumor there will be GT2 next year!

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Interesting!!

    GT3RS + TT = GT2.... perhaps.

    Less weight than a TT, more power plus the 90 litre tank..

    The Daddy returns!!??

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Imagine GT2-530hp,700Nm, 100kg less,PCCB standard, RWD,PASM like GT3, body like GT3RS...
    I need to end here!!

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Me too!!!

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    There is interesting article about 997 Turbo technical features in new Auto Zeitung Issue 7/2006

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Cheers!

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt *DELETED*

    Post deleted by JimFlat6

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Yes, they did! Time with normal Michelin's is 7.49min and this is old news...
    Here is translation from Netzeitung autotechnic article:
    "How good the new turbo is on the way, a view of the round times on the legendary north loop of the Nuerburgrings shows: While the predecessor put the distance back in 8 minutes, there is with 997 only the 7:49 minutes. Who with sport tire (235/35 19 vorn/305/30-19 in the back) on the way is, is again around seven seconds faster."
    It was published over 10days ago...

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Thank you Branimir!

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    If the Z06 achieves the same time (I know, big IF) with run-flat tires as the 997TT with track tires, then this is not very impressive for the Turbo...

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    So they don't test the GT2, GT3, GT3RS, TT, TT S, C2, C2S, C4, C4S as different cars? (did I leave any out)

    Not too many iterations of the Vette or Ferrari.



    They also test M5, M6, Corvette C5, Ferrari 550, Ferrari 360, F430, F575, Lambo Gallardo, Lambo Murcielago, Koenigsegg, Zonda, etc. etc.

    If you knew sportauto you would have a diferent view. Corvette et al. are really not faster than tested in sportauto. Sorry



    I understand that they test many different cars... My point is that the 911 happens to have so many iterations that the many forms don't change much and therefore is a competitive advantage due to familiarity with the method of driving needed.
    The C6 and Z06 are two completely different cars. If SportAuto tested many different variations of the Z06 then I'd say it was a fair test.
    I'm somewhat surprised you didn't understand what I was saying and compared a 550 with a 360 and then a 430.
    How similar is a Carrera S compared to a Carrera?
    How similar is the GT3 to the GT3RS? How similar is the 996 TT to the C4S?
    Would you say the same level of similarity exists between a front-engined Z06 and a M5? If not, then why mention those cars? Does the Ferrari 430 drive like the 550?

    Porsche's rear-engined family is very similar in nature. A 550 is similar to the 575 but then again how often do these models change and how often are they driven by the test driver? If the test driver has equal hours of experience behind ONE 911 variation as he does any given car then that would be fair. Currently this is not the case.

    I know this is an extreme case but would you expect a 997TT tested by a guy that drives 8 variations of a Z06 to be on equal footing? I wouldn't think this situation to be fair either.



    I do not think your argument is valid. You could also argue that a GT3 is very different from a GT2, a TT, or a Carrera/Carrera S...

    What does count is knowledge of the NBR and the driver's talent. A talented driver will be reasonably quick with any car.

    If the C5 time of sportauto is around 20 seconds slower than the time claimed by Dave Hill it would be very questionable to argue the time difference is due to HvS limited driving skills

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Forget it...
    Either you do or don't understand the principal idea here. Obviously you don't, so I'll leave it at that.

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    MKSGR, you are slightly confused a bit. You are trying to use times for a C5 standard Corvette times to validate a C6 Z06 Corvette. Thats faulty Carlos logic!

    You should look at the Ring times of a C5 Z06 and a C6 Z06.
    Germans testers got under 8 min for the old model C5 Z06.

    The current C6 Z06 has another 100hp, bigger tires, bigger brakes, a lower center of gravity, the engine moved further back and mounted lower and it weighs also weighs less than the last C5 Z06. Memorize these facts for the next test!

    Of course a C6 Z06 produces faster lap times than a C5 Z06!


    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Update on Auto Zeitung article:
    7.42min time is with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires specially developed for 997 Turbo(tires have special code on them)! It is yet open when these tires will be available(code, price and so on...). These tires are not so good on wet road according to the article(of course, we know that!).
    7.49min time is with normal Michelin's. These times are not achived only by W.Rohrl but, some other factory Porsche drivers as well! This info is from my friend who works at P.
    Walter was actually little bit faster(!!) then 7.42min...
    Other thing-weight distribution is more natural with manual cars, TIP is more heavy at the rear since all the extra weight is there(30kg).
    New doors on Turbo weight just 10.3kg(each) and are 7.2kg lighter then doors on regular 997(18.0kg). They use lot of aluminum...
    There is good technical explanation of PTM as well...
    BTW, 7.42min and 7.49min are for manual with optional LSD, TIP is little bit slower on Ring. On the other hand they are almost the same on Hockenheim(but, again manual/LSD is just a hint faster...). And on any very twisty road where is a need for perfect traction manual(with LSD) is faster then TIP.
    Do not be suprised if Sport Auto get manual with LSD,PCCB and Michelin Cup's for Supertest...

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Thnaks a lot Branimir!

    good info!

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    MKSGR, you are slightly confused a bit. You are trying to use times for a C5 standard Corvette times to validate a C6 Z06 Corvette. Thats faulty Carlos logic!

    You should look at the Ring times of a C5 Z06 and a C6 Z06.
    Germans testers got under 8 min for the old model C5 Z06.

    The current C6 Z06 has another 100hp, bigger tires, bigger brakes, a lower center of gravity, the engine moved further back and mounted lower and it weighs also weighs less than the last C5 Z06. Memorize these facts for the next test!

    Of course a C6 Z06 produces faster lap times than a C5 Z06!





    I hope you are still waiting for the promised (free) copy of the relevant sportauto issue

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    Branimir said:
    Update on Auto Zeitung article:
    7.42min time is with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires specially developed for 997 Turbo(tires have special code on them)! It is yet open when these tires will be available(code, price and so on...). These tires are not so good on wet road according to the article(of course, we know that!).
    7.49min time is with normal Michelin's. These times are not achived only by W.Rohrl but, some other factory Porsche drivers as well! This info is from my friend who works at P.
    Walter was actually little bit faster(!!) then 7.42min...
    Other thing-weight distribution is more natural with manual cars, TIP is more heavy at the rear since all the extra weight is there(30kg).
    New doors on Turbo weight just 10.3kg(each) and are 7.2kg lighter then doors on regular 997(18.0kg). They use lot of aluminum...
    There is good technical explanation of PTM as well...
    BTW, 7.42min and 7.49min are for manual with optional LSD, TIP is little bit slower on Ring. On the other hand they are almost the same on Hockenheim(but, again manual/LSD is just a hint faster...). And on any very twisty road where is a need for perfect traction manual(with LSD) is faster then TIP.
    Do not be suprised if Sport Auto get manual with LSD,PCCB and Michelin Cup's for Supertest...



    Since Branimir has ordered one, he knows everything about the turbo, we will call you Branimir tt or turbo Brano

    AM

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Thanks Adnan!
    I think you will join turbo club sooner or later!

    K

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    What I am implying is Von Saurma and company Ring times are not indicative of what a car can do. You acknowledge that W. Rohrl will exceed Sport Auto time by a few seconds. What does that tell you? These times are inaccurate, worthless and a waste of time.



    Good...the problem is Porsches are faster than Ferraris in 90% of the magazine tests...not only German magazines of course.



    I readily admit that Porsche is faster than Ferrari.... IN BUILDING CARS!



    Grow up Nick

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    7.42 is impressing... i was expecting such good figure for the tt..

    Re: Porsche claims 7.42 at NBR for 997 tt

    So 7.42 is on 'sport tyres'. What is a 996TTS doing with the similar tyres?

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/14/24 2:04 PM
    RCA
    803066 1806
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    448510 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    266034 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    90024 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    6508 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    885583 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    833059 3868
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug
    399491 1454
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    395685 1526
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    382544 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    370782 797
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 5/12/24 6:23 PM
    blueflame
    293427 669
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    265492 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    243897 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    238537 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    222178 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    173042 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    144878 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    121029 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    111440 685
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    85547 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    75776 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    54822 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 5/14/24 7:53 AM
    Porker
    26379 247
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy
    21686 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie
    20124 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997
    17047 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA
    14328 225
    Motor Sp. 24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018 5/25/23 10:42 PM
    Grant
    11492 55
    Porsche Porsche Mission X Hypercar 12/3/23 8:52 AM
    996FourEss
    11189 63
    124 items found, displaying 1 to 30.