derder:
no point arguing M3 vs 991 imo. completely different cars..
I can't believe anyone considering purchasing a new 991 would even consider an M4. Neither on price or character. Cayman S /GTS maybe.
BMW 335d M Sport Touring estoril blue(on order) - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive
The M4 is hugely competent, but many reviewers remark that the turbo engine has such linear power that its somewhat underwhelming emotional experience. Its not thrilling like other M cars have been.
Personally if you love sports cars and engines, I don't see how one could choose a car that has synthetic exhaust noise pumped through the speakers. Just too fake.
dreamcar:
derder:
no point arguing M3 vs 991 imo. completely different cars..
I can't believe anyone considering purchasing a new 991 would even consider an M4. Neither on price or character. Cayman S /GTS maybe.
Autocar magazine did a test of the M4 and concluded that the Cayman S at the same price, is the better performance car.
On the other hand the M4 is practical and more versatile. It also looks like a normal car and can be used for business visits etc. very inconspicuously. Very few would know it is not just a 420 with a body kit.
"Form follows function"
Jul 18, 2014 12:05:08 PM
JimFlat6:
Personally if you love sports cars and engines, I don't see how one could choose a car that has synthetic exhaust noise pumped through the speakers. Just too fake.
Easily disabled by disconnecting a box in the trunk. Get used to it though, turbos are going to be the new norm along with hybrids.
reginos:
dreamcar:
derder:
no point arguing M3 vs 991 imo. completely different cars..
I can't believe anyone considering purchasing a new 991 would even consider an M4. Neither on price or character. Cayman S /GTS maybe.
Autocar magazine did a test of the M4 and concluded that the Cayman S at the same price, is the better performance car.
I always like these comparisons about "performance" and so on ... - Who is really doing maths here to decide on whether to buy this or that sports car ??? If somebody wants to work out differences between an, say, Audi A4 or an BMW 3, fine, but I still cannot imagine that in this category we talking about the maths on price somebody would decide on a short list like : Oh, for this and that budget I can get myself a Subaru WRCwhatever or an M3/M4 or a Cayman / Boxster just because they reach 100 km/h in below 4,5 sec. ?? Maybe the next test we will see is a TESLA vs. an M4 just because of the straight line accelaration.... (btw, reginos, I simply took your quote about the performance bit here, not to argue about what you said ) ... I DO like the M3 and if I am in the market for a high-perfomance 4-seater car, I would go for it !
Jul 18, 2014 12:38:29 PM
JoeRockhead:
Easily disabled by disconnecting a box in the trunk. Get used to it though, turbos are going to be the new norm along with hybrids.
So true. I think Lotus owns the patents for computer generated vehicle exhaust noise. I have faith that someone will engineer a mechanical Abarth or Ansa sounding exhaust solution for turbo motors...... Just not this year.
Unlike the M5, the M4's in cabin noise is barely synthetic. I can't remember the exact number now, but 3% comes to mind. Porsche is doing the same thing with their sports exhaust in the Macan. Not sure if this was just for the diesel model or for petrol as well!
As for people cross shopping between 911 and M4, I personally know of two people who have done this. It's not really that uncommon!
Jul 18, 2014 1:01:03 PM
JimFlat6:
JoeRockhead:
Easily disabled by disconnecting a box in the trunk. Get used to it though, turbos are going to be the new norm along with hybrids.
So true. I think Lotus owns the patents for computer generated vehicle exhaust noise. I have faith that someone will engineer a mechanical Abarth or Ansa sounding exhaust solution for turbo motors...... Just not this year.
No doubt you will be able to download sound files for your favourite cars one day - you will be able to install an mid-90's F1 V12 sound track that matches up to the revs in your 2 cyl turbo Fiat and feel like a king while getting 60mpg.
WAY:As for people cross shopping between 911 and M4, I personally know of two people who have done this. It's not really that uncommon!
You are very correct. In the (unlikely) event I go away from a 911 the only car that appeals to me is the M4. However, I don't need the AWD option that Porsche offers.
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"Form follows function"
Jul 18, 2014 1:09:54 PM
Jul 18, 2014 1:19:39 PM
JimFlat6:
JoeRockhead:
No doubt you will be able to download sound files for your favourite cars one day - you will be able to install an mid-90's F1 V12 sound track that matches up to the revs in your 2 cyl turbo Fiat.Make that a autonomous driving 2cyl Fiat!
Come to think of it, I had a primitive version of this system in my '81 Caprice when I wired the stereo into the wrong power source and there was an electronic hum through the speakers that increased or decreased along with the engine speed when listening to FM radio. It drove me nuts until I figured out what the problem was. I should have patented it.
WAY:
Unlike the M5, the M4's in cabin noise is barely synthetic. I can't remember the exact number now, but 3% comes to mind. Porsche is doing the same thing with their sports exhaust in the Macan. Not sure if this was just for the diesel model or for petrol as well!
As for people cross shopping between 911 and M4, I personally know of two people who have done this. It's not really that uncommon!
Hmmm, perhaps I have a different perception here ... based on my experiences, there are usually not that many cross shoppers in my neighborhood ... interesting ...
Personally, the test I would like to read and care about is a comparison between a 335d and an M3...4wd vs. 2wd and diesel turbo vs petrol turbo ...
While the 911 in that comparison may have been down on power and transmission, it did weight 400 lbs less!
Comes down to looks IMO. Better buy is the M4, but you have to be ok driving a 3/4er. I'm not OK with driving a such a car for $80-90K. If I'm gonna drive such a car, I'd rather just go the bang-for-buck route and get a Corvette/Z06.
911 is overpriced, but at least it's not a bodykit.
Jul 19, 2014 1:26:34 PM
Jul 19, 2014 1:36:18 PM
Jul 19, 2014 2:05:57 PM
JoeRockhead:
noone1:
911 is overpriced, but at least it's not a bodykit.
The 3/4 only shares 35% of its parts with the non-M. While the 911 shares over 50% with the Cayman.
I would not say the Cayman is a 3-series
I find 50% sharing between two sports cars is quite different than 35% sharing with a people carrier. The end product does reflect this however. One is a sports car, the other a sporty family car.
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White
Jul 19, 2014 5:32:04 PM
reginos:
The Cayman is still a bespoke and special low production volume car. Definitely more so than the myriads of 320d.
911+ Cayman = 25.000 units p.a.
3/4 series = 500.000 units p.a.
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"Form follows function"
My point is that the M3 is far from being a 3 Series with a body kit if 65% of the components are different than a standard car. I wouldn't call the Cayman or Boxster "special" - they are relatively accessible vehicles in the same vein as the M4 or RS5 for example. If you can walk into a store and buy a brand new one that is sitting in the showroom as dealer inventory it doesn't qualify as "special" IMHO. Heck, you even have to special order an RS5.
Jul 19, 2014 6:48:13 PM
Jul 19, 2014 7:33:08 PM
Jul 19, 2014 7:48:58 PM
JoeRockhead:
reginos:
I thought it is the way a car drives that makes it special, not how long you have to wait to get one
Anyway, we don't all have to agree
The M4 is pretty special then.
Did you drive it?
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White
Jul 19, 2014 8:05:42 PM
JoeRockhead:
reginos:
I thought it is the way a car drives that makes it special, not how long you have to wait to get one
Anyway, we don't all have to agree
The M4 is pretty special then.
Judging from the previous versions, it will be the most special 3/4-series variant and probably one of the good BMWs
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"Form follows function"
Jul 20, 2014 11:07:32 AM
It has got to be a comfortable car for longer trips. Has some fun, good power and handling, good seats, useable trunk space etc..
I wish BMW would put the tach in the center of the gauges and ditch that 60's 2002 style gauge layout. If Alfa can do it, even BMW can. The other element that could use a upgrade is the electric switch on the console they call a gear selector.
A couple would be really comfortable in it on a long fast journey. I see it more of a GT type vehicle than a actual sports car.
JimFlat6:I wish BMW would put the tach in the center of the gauges and ditch that 60's 2002 style gauge layout. If Alfa can do it, even BMW can. The other element that could use a upgrade is the electric switch on the console they call a gear selector.
A couple would be really comfortable in it on a long fast journey. I see it more of a GT type vehicle than a actual sports car.
I don't see the M3/M4 as a sports car, they are fast saloon / sedan derived cars. They are not sports cars in the same pedigree, specialised way that Porsche are. OK, there may be more commonality between a 981 and a 991 than between a 316 and an M3, but the base car in Porsche's case is still a sports car. I don't think I'd buy a BMW M car over a Porsche as a sports - or even a driver's - car.
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BMW 335d M Sport Touring estoril blue(on order) - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive