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    Oct 23, 2013 9:58:36 AM

    Martin Day
    Junior
    Martin Day
    Loc: Bristol, UK , United Kingdom
    Posts: 52, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 17, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    GR:

    And for info I''ve driven in most Europe countries in a wide variety of cars and the UK has traditionally had a much coarser tarmac, which can really change how a car feels.  We're talking nuances here but driving a sports car is about the nuances.   Should it be a suprise that a car might be most accomplished on the roads where it spent most of its development time? 

    I ask again: Are you serious? I get the British thing with "our island", "our currency", "our tea", "our queen" and even "our humor" but now "our roads"? Seriously? Smiley I am sorry but while every country certainly has nuances in street quality and construction quality, the differences are usually related to nature and not the streets themselves.It is not very likely that there is really a difference in tarmac compared to other EU countries or South Africa or the United States for that matter.

     

    Honda seem to think the UK road surfaces are unique enough that they've built 4 miles of test track in Japan surfaced the same way as British roads :

     

    http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/10/britains-roads-copied-by-japanese-car-engineers-to-test-drive-vehicles-3589816/

     

    Oct 23, 2013 10:02:51 AM

    GR
    Senior
    GR
    Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom
    Posts: 779, Gallery
    Registered on: May 17, 2005
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Its changing as we move to the modern tarmac where the water drains through the porous top layer to run off on a lower layer.  But on the old style tarmac where the chippings protrude to facilitate water run off, we have traditionally used a much coarser grade of chipping, quite different to most of mainland Europe.  I have found the differences noticeable and the roads I love still tend to be the older ones.  And I stand by what I said regarding development reflecting the environment where you test.  Its a perennial problem with calibration of any system and that has to be used in a broader operational environemnt.    For example, German cars have traditionally suffered from poor ride and tyre noise in this country compared to British rivals (they are typically better overal though).

    It will be interest to see CH's review and I suspect he will love the car with a few caveats.  Those caveats might be enough to warrant four stars instead of five like many of the other reviews.  Generally I agree with him but as an aside, I cannot fathom his love for the M135i 


    --

    Gen II Cayman S

    Oct 23, 2013 10:18:32 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59606, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Martin Day

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Martin Day:
     

    Honda seem to think the UK road surfaces are unique enough that they've built 4 miles of test track in Japan surfaced the same way as British roads :

     

    http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/10/britains-roads-copied-by-japanese-car-engineers-to-test-drive-vehicles-3589816/

     

    And of course it is no surprise that this has been mentioned in the british press. Smiley

    What better advertisement for Honda than telling their british customers: Hey look, we care. Smiley Smiley

    Smiley

    This reminds me of the claims GM makes for their high performance cars Corvette and Camaro in Europe, "tested on the Nordschleife" for "European customers". Smiley Oh well... Surprisingly, they really adapt their cars to European markets with better brakes, better tires, better chassis setups, better lights and so on. What they call "performance packages"/etc. in the US, are just standard setups for the European market. Smiley

    Advertisement at it's best...like German car manufacturers in the past "made for the Autobahn". Such a crap.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Oct 23, 2013 10:23:04 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59606, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    easy_rider911:

    My 2 cents (or should that be pence), having driven extensively throughout the UK and continental Europe, is that there is no meaningful difference in the overall nature and quality of UK roads and those in countries like Germany, Belgium etc.

    Every country seems to have its fair share of billiard table smooth surfaces and pot-hole covered roads in my experience. The proportions will vary but everywhere has good and bad roads.

    Smiley Exactly. Even people are quite the same in these countries, despite sometimes different mentalities. There are good and bad people, ugly and beautiful people and stupid and highly intelligent people. Same as roads. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Oct 23, 2013 10:52:19 AM

    SuzyF
    Expert
    SuzyF
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1306, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2013
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Fascinating how well you can describe me in one sentence.... Good, beautiful and highly intelligent  indecision 


    --

    Suzy

     

    Oct 23, 2013 11:04:08 AM

    reginos
    Rennteam VIP
    reginos
    Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus
    Posts: 12130, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 20, 2005
    Reply to: SuzyF

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    SuzyF:

    Fascinating how well you can describe me in one sentence.... Good, beautiful and highly intelligent  indecision 

    .....and rich Smileysmiley


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Oct 23, 2013 11:12:30 AM

    Pentium Offline
    Rennteam Master
    Pentium
    Loc: Earth , Romania
    Posts: 3062, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 27, 2003
    Reply to: SuzyF

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Are you perfect Suzy?
    --

    There is no try. Just do.

    Oct 23, 2013 11:53:31 AM

    SuzyF
    Expert
    SuzyF
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1306, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2013
    Reply to: Pentium

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Pentium:
    Are you perfect Suzy?

    Smiley Noooo!! Nobody is perfect! 


    --

    Suzy

     

    Oct 23, 2013 11:55:09 AM

    SuzyF
    Expert
    SuzyF
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1306, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2013
    Reply to: reginos

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:
    SuzyF:

    Fascinating how well you can describe me in one sentence.... Good, beautiful and highly intelligent  indecision 

    .....and rich Smileysmiley


    --

    "Form follows function"

    I'm healthy and alive.... (Knock on wood) That has much more value Smiley


    --

    Suzy

     

    Oct 23, 2013 12:11:14 PM

    reginos
    Rennteam VIP
    reginos
    Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus
    Posts: 12130, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 20, 2005
    Reply to: SuzyF

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    "The greatest wealth is health" Virgil  kiss


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Oct 23, 2013 1:23:19 PM

    GR
    Senior
    GR
    Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom
    Posts: 779, Gallery
    Registered on: May 17, 2005
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    easy_rider911:

    My 2 cents (or should that be pence), having driven extensively throughout the UK and continental Europe, is that there is no meaningful difference in the overall nature and quality of UK roads and those in countries like Germany, Belgium etc.

    Every country seems to have its fair share of billiard table smooth surfaces and pot-hole covered roads in my experience. The proportions will vary but everywhere has good and bad roads.

    Smiley Exactly. Even people are quite the same in these countries, despite sometimes different mentalities. There are good and bad people, ugly and beautiful people and stupid and highly intelligent people. Same as roads. Smiley Smiley

    I am well aware that every country has good and bad roads, roads that are badly maintained and well maintained.  But I don't think that it averages out and that the older UK tarmac in particular differs.  To open up a new can of worms, I also wonder whether Porsche put more effort into the final calibration of the left hand drive variant as that will be the big volume seller.  Conversely a small volume UK manufacturer might well concentrate on the right hand drive variant (if they even make the other). 

    Clearly some of you find my comments odd but I can count on 6 years in the automotive industry, running a test facility and engineering consultancy.  Now I work for a company that makes complex electro-mechanical systems that need a great deal of calibration for differnt operational environments.  Every solution is a series of compromises and Porsche will clearly have to favour their biggest markets


    --

    Gen II Cayman S

    Oct 23, 2013 2:26:38 PM

    Pentium Offline
    Rennteam Master
    Pentium
    Loc: Earth , Romania
    Posts: 3062, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 27, 2003
    Reply to: SuzyF

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    OK. Good call. Just checking...


    --

    There is no try. Just do.

    Oct 23, 2013 3:05:34 PM

    SuzyF
    Expert
    SuzyF
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1306, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2013
    Reply to: Pentium

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Pentium:

    OK. Good call. Just checking...

    That good, beautiful and highly intelligent was meant in a sarcastic way Smiley It's up to other people to decide if I'm beautiful or not hahaha Smiley


    --

    Suzy

     

    Oct 23, 2013 3:27:52 PM

    Martin Day
    Junior
    Martin Day
    Loc: Bristol, UK , United Kingdom
    Posts: 52, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 17, 2003
    Reply to: GR

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    GR:
    RC:
    easy_rider911:

    My 2 cents (or should that be pence), having driven extensively throughout the UK and continental Europe, is that there is no meaningful difference in the overall nature and quality of UK roads and those in countries like Germany, Belgium etc.

    Every country seems to have its fair share of billiard table smooth surfaces and pot-hole covered roads in my experience. The proportions will vary but everywhere has good and bad roads.

    Smiley Exactly. Even people are quite the same in these countries, despite sometimes different mentalities. There are good and bad people, ugly and beautiful people and stupid and highly intelligent people. Same as roads. Smiley Smiley

    I am well aware that every country has good and bad roads, roads that are badly maintained and well maintained.  But I don't think that it averages out and that the older UK tarmac in particular differs.  To open up a new can of worms, I also wonder whether Porsche put more effort into the final calibration of the left hand drive variant as that will be the big volume seller.  Conversely a small volume UK manufacturer might well concentrate on the right hand drive variant (if they even make the other). 

    Clearly some of you find my comments odd but I can count on 6 years in the automotive industry, running a test facility and engineering consultancy.  Now I work for a company that makes complex electro-mechanical systems that need a great deal of calibration for differnt operational environments.  Every solution is a series of compromises and Porsche will clearly have to favour their biggest markets

     

    I can't find the original but here's a summary of some comments that Prodrive made a while ago about UK roads and the differences to those in other European countries : http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/tester-s-notes/ever-wondered-why-uk-roads-are-so-lumpy

     

    Oct 23, 2013 7:16:36 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: Martin Day

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    That seems to be not much more than an anecdotal blog rather than an objective comparison based on empirical evidence.


    --


    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

    Oct 23, 2013 9:29:30 PM

    Martin Day
    Junior
    Martin Day
    Loc: Bristol, UK , United Kingdom
    Posts: 52, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 17, 2003
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    As the blog entry says, the parts it quotes are a small excerpt from the Prodrive document. Can't think of any reason for Prodrive to publish something purely anecdotal, can you?. I remember reading a more detailed version of this some years ago but can't remember where and can't find it with google. 

     

    Oct 24, 2013 7:54:44 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59606, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: SuzyF

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    SuzyF:

    Fascinating how well you can describe me in one sentence.... Good, beautiful and highly intelligent  indecision 

    I cannot judge on the beautiful (haven't seen you yet Smiley) but I can confirm the highly intelligent part. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Oct 24, 2013 7:56:46 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59606, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    easy_rider911:

    That seems to be not much more than an anecdotal blog rather than an objective comparison based on empirical evidence.

    I know we sometimes have our differences in opinions or views but I always love and appreciate your almost Data-like (remember that android guy from Stark Trek - Next Generation?) right to the point super precise analysis of things.  Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Oct 24, 2013 8:55:50 AM

    SuzyF
    Expert
    SuzyF
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1306, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2013
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    SuzyF:

    Fascinating how well you can describe me in one sentence.... Good, beautiful and highly intelligent  indecision 

    I cannot judge on the beautiful (haven't seen you yet Smiley) but I can confirm the highly intelligent part. Smiley Smiley

    No comment Smiley Hahaha Smiley


    --

    Suzy

     

    Oct 24, 2013 4:23:24 PM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
     

    I cannot judge on the beautiful (haven't seen you yet Smiley) but I can confirm the highly intelligent part. Smiley Smiley

    instead i can judge that she is also highly beautiful...SmileySmiley


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

    Oct 24, 2013 5:29:38 PM

    Cocodrilo Offline
    Co-Pilot
    Cocodrilo
    Loc: Miami , United States
    Posts: 160, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 1, 2006
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Super Darius:
    RC:
     

    I cannot judge on the beautiful (haven't seen you yet Smiley) but I can confirm the highly intelligent part. Smiley Smiley

    instead i can judge that she is also highly beautiful...SmileySmiley

    PIC PIC PIC  indecision Smiley


    --

     

    2014 991 Turbo (on order, Nov Prod)
2012 991 C2S w/Fabspeed SOLD
2011 Ferrari 458 Italia Rosso Mondiale / cuoio
2011 Turbo S Cab SOLD
2010 BMW AH7 
2010 Caddy Escalade
2006 Cayman S First P car, SOLD

     

    Oct 24, 2013 6:11:10 PM

    SuzyF
    Expert
    SuzyF
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1306, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2013
    Reply to: Cocodrilo

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Cocodrilo:
    Super Darius:
    RC:
     

    I cannot judge on the beautiful (haven't seen you yet Smiley) but I can confirm the highly intelligent part. Smiley Smiley

    instead i can judge that she is also highly beautiful...SmileySmiley

    PIC PIC PIC  indecision Smiley

    I'm sorry, but if I show my picture, my Famiglia and the rest of the Cosa Nostra would have to eliminate you all SmileySmiley


    --

    Suzy

     

    Oct 24, 2013 8:41:29 PM

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Germany
    Posts: 12682, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: SuzyF

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    SuzyF:
    Cocodrilo:
    Super Darius:
    RC:
     

    I cannot judge on the beautiful (haven't seen you yet Smiley) but I can confirm the highly intelligent part. Smiley Smiley

    instead i can judge that she is also highly beautiful...SmileySmiley

    PIC PIC PIC  indecision Smiley

    I'm sorry, but if I show my picture, my Famiglia and the rest of the Cosa Nostra would have to eliminate you all SmileySmiley


    Omertà! Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

    Oct 24, 2013 8:54:20 PM

    SuzyF
    Expert
    SuzyF
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1306, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2013
    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Rossi:
    SuzyF:
    Cocodrilo:
    Super Darius:
    RC:
     

    I cannot judge on the beautiful (haven't seen you yet Smiley) but I can confirm the highly intelligent part. Smiley Smiley

    instead i can judge that she is also highly beautiful...SmileySmiley

    PIC PIC PIC  indecision Smiley

    I'm sorry, but if I show my picture, my Famiglia and the rest of the Cosa Nostra would have to eliminate you all SmileySmiley


    Omertà! Smiley

    Hahahaha Smiley


    --

    Suzy

     

    Oct 24, 2013 11:04:45 PM

    Enmanuel
    Rennteam VIP
    Enmanuel
    Loc: Boston , United States
    Posts: 8861, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 7, 2008
    Reply to: Cocodrilo

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Cocodrilo:
    Super Darius:
    RC:
     

    I cannot judge on the beautiful (haven't seen you yet Smiley) but I can confirm the highly intelligent part. Smiley Smiley

    instead i can judge that she is also highly beautiful...SmileySmiley

    PIC PIC PIC  indecision Smiley

    You'll scare the only girl in the forum away !! Play it cool !! Smiley

    Oct 24, 2013 11:34:06 PM

    thxf8 Offline
    Newbie
    thxf8
    Loc: california , United States
    Posts: 42, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 20, 2013
    Reply to: Enmanuel

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    This is starting to resemble an American Football forum.

    Oct 25, 2013 5:50:28 AM

    Super DariusM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Super Darius
    Loc: Italy-Como , Italy
    Posts: 4084, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2002
    Reply to: SuzyF

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    SuzyF:
    Cocodrilo:
    Super Darius:
    RC:
     

    I cannot judge on the beautiful (haven't seen you yet Smiley) but I can confirm the highly intelligent part. Smiley Smiley

    instead i can judge that she is also highly beautiful...SmileySmiley

    PIC PIC PIC  indecision Smiley

    I'm sorry, but if I show my picture, my Famiglia and the rest of the Cosa Nostra would have to eliminate you all SmileySmiley


    --

    Suzy

     

    hahahahahaha,right,fortunately fish doesn't eat fish...or at least i hope....SmileySmileySmiley

     


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

    Oct 25, 2013 9:43:20 AM

    Guy
    Junior
    Guy
    Loc:
    Posts: 135, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 27, 2003
    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Girl on car forum - usual chronology runs as follows:

    1. Girls posts about liking cars.

    2. All men on forum start engaging respectfully, but really think 'what a girl, she likes cars, maybe is rich and beautiful - I am in heaven'

    3. Girl either turns out to be 14 year-old boy or gets bored of thinly veiled chat-up lines and goes away.

    Seen it a few times, can be quite funny to watch....

    Oct 25, 2013 9:56:32 AM

    SuzyF
    Expert
    SuzyF
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1306, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2013
    Reply to: Guy

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Guy:

    Girl on car forum - usual chronology runs as follows:

    1. Girls posts about liking cars.

    2. All men on forum start engaging respectfully, but really think 'what a girl, she likes cars, maybe is rich and beautiful - I am in heaven'

    3. Girl either turns out to be 14 year-old boy or gets bored of thinly veiled chat-up lines and goes away.

    Seen it a few times, can be quite funny to watch....

    So what are you trying to say??? Smiley


    --

    Suzy

     

    Oct 25, 2013 10:16:59 AM

    bridggar
    Veteran
    bridggar
    Loc: UK , United Kingdom
    Posts: 1223, Gallery
    Registered on: May 25, 2007
    Reply to: SuzyF

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Reminds me of this


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog

     
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